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Re: BUG: Vim doesn't find single-letter help tags even though they are in $VIMRUNTIME/doc/tags

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  • Ben Schmidt
    ... I question the usefulness of this behaviour, actually. What s the point of having a list of completions if there s only a 30% chance or something that it
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 5, 2008
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      Ian Kelling wrote:
      > I wrote the patch that introduced the bug and I will be happy to fix
      > it. It was written to solve the problem that doing :h <ctrl-d> would
      > take a long time to show every help tag. It could be changed so that
      > it only limits it in that specific case. Do you have any other ideas?
      > If not, I will do that one.
      >
      > - Ian Kelling

      I question the usefulness of this behaviour, actually. What's the point
      of having a list of completions if there's only a 30% chance or
      something that it will contain the entry you actually want, because it's
      a random selection of the possible completions? If anything, this will
      lead you to deduce that Vim doesn't have help on a particular topic
      because CTRL-D presents you with a list that doesn't include that topic.
      Why would you do :he CTRL-D anyway? The only reason I can think of is if
      you have no idea what tag you are looking for, and so you want to look
      through the entire list in the hope that you will recognise it. Deleting
      items from the list makes this impossible.

      If you think people absent-mindedly type CTRL-D (or whatever completion
      key) so often that speed really is an issue for this, I'd sooner have
      completion completely disabled for short words, or common words (that
      produce a list above a certain size) rather than an incomplete and
      therefore misleading list. But I'd sooner just have the old behaviour:
      some operations do take a long time; we might not like to wait, but
      breaking the feature isn't a good fix, and sometimes the wait is worth
      it.

      Ben.



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    • Bram Moolenaar
      ... It s not a random selection, the results are sorted by some kind of scoring. Currently that s based on match length and ignoring case. It doesn t make
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 5, 2008
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        Ben Schmidt wrote:

        > Ian Kelling wrote:
        > > I wrote the patch that introduced the bug and I will be happy to fix
        > > it. It was written to solve the problem that doing :h <ctrl-d> would
        > > take a long time to show every help tag. It could be changed so that
        > > it only limits it in that specific case. Do you have any other ideas?
        > > If not, I will do that one.
        > >
        > > - Ian Kelling
        >
        > I question the usefulness of this behaviour, actually. What's the point
        > of having a list of completions if there's only a 30% chance or
        > something that it will contain the entry you actually want, because it's
        > a random selection of the possible completions?

        It's not a random selection, the results are sorted by some kind of
        scoring. Currently that's based on match length and ignoring case. It
        doesn't make sense to show all matches that contain an "a" somewhere.
        It's sufficient to show the user there are very many matches, and he'll
        add a letter and try again.

        > If anything, this will
        > lead you to deduce that Vim doesn't have help on a particular topic
        > because CTRL-D presents you with a list that doesn't include that topic.
        > Why would you do :he CTRL-D anyway? The only reason I can think of is if
        > you have no idea what tag you are looking for, and so you want to look
        > through the entire list in the hope that you will recognise it. Deleting
        > items from the list makes this impossible.

        This mostly applies to single letter searches. Try finding a two
        character combination that has more than 300 matches.

        > If you think people absent-mindedly type CTRL-D (or whatever completion
        > key) so often that speed really is an issue for this, I'd sooner have
        > completion completely disabled for short words, or common words (that
        > produce a list above a certain size) rather than an incomplete and
        > therefore misleading list. But I'd sooner just have the old behaviour:
        > some operations do take a long time; we might not like to wait, but
        > breaking the feature isn't a good fix, and sometimes the wait is worth
        > it.

        How about ":he <Tab>", should it list all possible tags? I don't think
        that is useful. Anyway, this is still slow, so that needs to be fixed.

        --
        The Law of VIM:
        For each member b of the possible behaviour space B of program P, there exists
        a finite time t before which at least one user u in the total user space U of
        program P will request b becomes a member of the allowed behaviour space B'
        (B' <= B).
        In other words: Sooner or later everyone wants everything as an option.
        -- Vince Negri

        /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
        /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
        \\\ download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org ///
        \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org ///

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      • Tony Mechelynck
        ... As long as the full match comes first, I don t mind pruning some less relevant matches, especially when completing for one or two letters. It might be
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 5, 2008
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          On 05/08/08 22:45, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
          >
          > Ben Schmidt wrote:
          >
          >> Ian Kelling wrote:
          >>> I wrote the patch that introduced the bug and I will be happy to fix
          >>> it. It was written to solve the problem that doing :h<ctrl-d> would
          >>> take a long time to show every help tag. It could be changed so that
          >>> it only limits it in that specific case. Do you have any other ideas?
          >>> If not, I will do that one.
          >>>
          >>> - Ian Kelling
          >> I question the usefulness of this behaviour, actually. What's the point
          >> of having a list of completions if there's only a 30% chance or
          >> something that it will contain the entry you actually want, because it's
          >> a random selection of the possible completions?
          >
          > It's not a random selection, the results are sorted by some kind of
          > scoring. Currently that's based on match length and ignoring case. It
          > doesn't make sense to show all matches that contain an "a" somewhere.
          > It's sufficient to show the user there are very many matches, and he'll
          > add a letter and try again.
          >
          >> If anything, this will
          >> lead you to deduce that Vim doesn't have help on a particular topic
          >> because CTRL-D presents you with a list that doesn't include that topic.
          >> Why would you do :he CTRL-D anyway? The only reason I can think of is if
          >> you have no idea what tag you are looking for, and so you want to look
          >> through the entire list in the hope that you will recognise it. Deleting
          >> items from the list makes this impossible.
          >
          > This mostly applies to single letter searches. Try finding a two
          > character combination that has more than 300 matches.
          >
          >> If you think people absent-mindedly type CTRL-D (or whatever completion
          >> key) so often that speed really is an issue for this, I'd sooner have
          >> completion completely disabled for short words, or common words (that
          >> produce a list above a certain size) rather than an incomplete and
          >> therefore misleading list. But I'd sooner just have the old behaviour:
          >> some operations do take a long time; we might not like to wait, but
          >> breaking the feature isn't a good fix, and sometimes the wait is worth
          >> it.
          >
          > How about ":he<Tab>", should it list all possible tags? I don't think
          > that is useful. Anyway, this is still slow, so that needs to be fixed.
          >

          As long as the full match comes first, I don't mind pruning some "less
          relevant" matches, especially when completing for one or two letters. It
          might be better to do the pruning after the sorting, as, I think, your
          "experimental" patch does, in order to keep all the "best" matches.


          Best regards,
          Tony.
          --
          Boston State House is the hub of the Solar System. You couldn't pry
          that out of a Boston man if you had the tire of all creation
          straightened out for a crowbar.
          -- O. W. Holmes

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