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Re: GNOME HIG compliance in gvim: button order in close confirmation dialogs (PATCH)

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  • Edward Catmur
    ... Thanks. I know some GUIs are replete with message dialogs where you have to read the text to know which button to press, but they stick out like a sore
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 7, 2007
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      On Sun, 2007-01-07 at 13:03 +0100, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
      > Edward Catmur wrote:
      > > * Close confirmation dialogs use "Save/Discard/Cancel" instead of
      > > "Yes/No/Cancel"
      > I'll look into this later. Perhaps Save/Discard/Cancel is better for
      > all GUIs, since you don't need to read the text to know whether "yes"
      > means "save" or "discard". But it will break the translations.
      Thanks. I know some GUIs are replete with message dialogs where you
      have to read the text to know which button to press, but they stick out
      like a sore thumb in Gnome. As for the string break: looking at the
      pofiles, a guessed translation (from the existing "Save all", "Discard
      all") looks feasible in almost all cases; would it be acceptable for me
      to attempt that?

      > > Also attached is a patch to disable guioptions="t" (tearoff menus) when
      > > compiled with FEAT_GUI_GNOME, also for desktop consistency.
      > You mean that the default is not to use tearoff menus, one can still
      > have them when wanted.
      Yes. Sorry for the confusion.

      Ed
    • Trenton Schulz
      ... Just being a lurker here, I would vote for this being in all GUIs (not that we get votes here). Having the actual save/discard vs. yes/ no makes it much
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 8, 2007
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        On Jan 7, 2007, at 1:03 PM, Bram Moolenaar wrote:

        >
        > Edward Catmur wrote:
        >
        >> This patch improves HIG compliance when compiled with FEAT_GUI_GNOME:
        >>
        >> * Close confirmation dialogs use "Save/Discard/Cancel" instead of
        >> "Yes/No/Cancel"
        >> * GTK_STOCK_SAVE used for "Save"
        >> * Default button placed at end of message dialog, with order
        >> passed in
        >> set as alternative button order
        >>
        >> vim_dialog_yesnocancel() is renamed to vim_dialog_savediscardcancel
        >> (),
        >> because that's all it's used for. Same for
        >> vim_dialog_yesnoallcancel().
        >
        > I'll look into this later. Perhaps Save/Discard/Cancel is better for
        > all GUIs, since you don't need to read the text to know whether "yes"
        > means "save" or "discard". But it will break the translations.

        Just being a lurker here, I would vote for this being in all GUIs
        (not that we get votes here). Having the actual save/discard vs. yes/
        no makes it much simpler to look at a message box and know which
        button to press (probably why the "File Changed" dialog in Vim is a
        bit easier to decide what to do than the "Save Changes" dialog IMO).

        FWIW, the OS X guidelines also recommend this as well, (though they
        seem to prefer "Don't Save", Discard is better than "No").

        Breaking translations is unfortunate though, but it is a one-time
        cost (hopefully)... Vim 7.1-type thing?

        -- Trenton
      • Martin Stubenschrott
        ... Would you also vote for changing the console style dialogs? I mean, console users are normally used to press y or n, when answering these kind of
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 8, 2007
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          On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 at 12:14:05PM +0100, Trenton Schulz wrote:
          > >I'll look into this later. Perhaps Save/Discard/Cancel is better for
          > >all GUIs, since you don't need to read the text to know whether "yes"
          > >means "save" or "discard". But it will break the translations.
          >
          > Just being a lurker here, I would vote for this being in all GUIs
          > (not that we get votes here). Having the actual save/discard vs. yes/
          > no makes it much simpler to look at a message box and know which
          > button to press (probably why the "File Changed" dialog in Vim is a
          > bit easier to decide what to do than the "Save Changes" dialog IMO).

          Would you also vote for changing the console style dialogs? I mean,
          console users are normally used to press y or n, when answering these
          kind of questions.

          --
          Martin
        • Trenton Schulz
          ... Well, don t you do that by typing :wq/:wq! or ZZ or whatever? Most of the other dialogs on the console version don t ask yes/no questions as far as I
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 8, 2007
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            On Jan 8, 2007, at 12:39 PM, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:

            > On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 at 12:14:05PM +0100, Trenton Schulz wrote:
            >>> I'll look into this later. Perhaps Save/Discard/Cancel is better
            >>> for
            >>> all GUIs, since you don't need to read the text to know whether
            >>> "yes"
            >>> means "save" or "discard". But it will break the translations.
            >>
            >> Just being a lurker here, I would vote for this being in all GUIs
            >> (not that we get votes here). Having the actual save/discard vs. yes/
            >> no makes it much simpler to look at a message box and know which
            >> button to press (probably why the "File Changed" dialog in Vim is a
            >> bit easier to decide what to do than the "Save Changes" dialog IMO).
            >
            > Would you also vote for changing the console style dialogs? I mean,
            > console users are normally used to press y or n, when answering these
            > kind of questions.

            Well, don't you do that by typing :wq/:wq! or ZZ or whatever? Most of
            the other "dialogs" on the console version don't ask yes/no questions
            as far as I have encountered. I think it is a non-issue for the
            console version...

            -- Trenton
          • Martin Stubenschrott
            ... Well, mostly I use ZZ, but sometimes :q, but have :set confirm on, so when there are unsaved changes, there is no need to press :q!, but just y to save the
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 8, 2007
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              On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 at 05:05:31PM +0100, Trenton Schulz wrote:
              > >Would you also vote for changing the console style dialogs? I mean,
              > >console users are normally used to press y or n, when answering these
              > >kind of questions.
              >
              > Well, don't you do that by typing :wq/:wq! or ZZ or whatever? Most of
              > the other "dialogs" on the console version don't ask yes/no questions
              > as far as I have encountered. I think it is a non-issue for the
              > console version...

              Well, mostly I use ZZ, but sometimes :q, but have :set confirm on, so
              when there are unsaved changes, there is no need to press :q!, but just
              y to save the changes, or n do discard them.

              --
              Martin
            • Nikolai Weibull
              ... % vim ... iHello, Vim! ... Save changes to Untitled ? [Y]es, (N)o, (C)ancel: Sure, [S]ave, (D)iscard, (C)ancel would work - and is better, as it
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 8, 2007
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                On 1/8/07, Trenton Schulz <twschulz@...> wrote:
                >
                > On Jan 8, 2007, at 12:39 PM, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:

                > > Would you also vote for changing the console style dialogs? I mean,
                > > console users are normally used to press y or n, when answering these
                > > kind of questions.
                >
                > Well, don't you do that by typing :wq/:wq! or ZZ or whatever? Most of
                > the other "dialogs" on the console version don't ask yes/no questions
                > as far as I have encountered. I think it is a non-issue for the
                > console version...

                % vim
                :set confirm
                iHello, Vim!<Esc>
                :q
                Save changes to "Untitled"?
                [Y]es, (N)o, (C)ancel:

                Sure, [S]ave, (D)iscard, (C)ancel would work - and is better, as it
                better describes what would happen - but I'd venture so far as to say
                that 'Y', 'N' are so deeply engrained in peoples minds by now that it
                would be very irritating to have to hit 'S' or 'D' instead. I know I
                would be annoyed. Still, perhaps it makes sense to change these as
                well. And one could allow the user to type 'Y' or 'N' with the old
                behavior as well.

                nikolai
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