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Re: GNOME HIG compliance in gvim: button order in close confirmation dialogs (PATCH)

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  • Bram Moolenaar
    ... I ll look into this later. Perhaps Save/Discard/Cancel is better for all GUIs, since you don t need to read the text to know whether yes means save or
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 7, 2007
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      Edward Catmur wrote:

      > This patch improves HIG compliance when compiled with FEAT_GUI_GNOME:
      >
      > * Close confirmation dialogs use "Save/Discard/Cancel" instead of
      > "Yes/No/Cancel"
      > * GTK_STOCK_SAVE used for "Save"
      > * Default button placed at end of message dialog, with order passed in
      > set as alternative button order
      >
      > vim_dialog_yesnocancel() is renamed to vim_dialog_savediscardcancel(),
      > because that's all it's used for. Same for vim_dialog_yesnoallcancel().

      I'll look into this later. Perhaps Save/Discard/Cancel is better for
      all GUIs, since you don't need to read the text to know whether "yes"
      means "save" or "discard". But it will break the translations.

      > Also attached is a patch to disable guioptions="t" (tearoff menus) when
      > compiled with FEAT_GUI_GNOME, also for desktop consistency.

      You mean that the default is not to use tearoff menus, one can still
      have them when wanted.

      --
      Managers are like cats in a litter box. They instinctively shuffle things
      around to conceal what they've done.
      (Scott Adams - The Dilbert principle)

      /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
      /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
      \\\ download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org ///
      \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org ///
    • Edward Catmur
      ... Thanks. I know some GUIs are replete with message dialogs where you have to read the text to know which button to press, but they stick out like a sore
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 7, 2007
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        On Sun, 2007-01-07 at 13:03 +0100, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
        > Edward Catmur wrote:
        > > * Close confirmation dialogs use "Save/Discard/Cancel" instead of
        > > "Yes/No/Cancel"
        > I'll look into this later. Perhaps Save/Discard/Cancel is better for
        > all GUIs, since you don't need to read the text to know whether "yes"
        > means "save" or "discard". But it will break the translations.
        Thanks. I know some GUIs are replete with message dialogs where you
        have to read the text to know which button to press, but they stick out
        like a sore thumb in Gnome. As for the string break: looking at the
        pofiles, a guessed translation (from the existing "Save all", "Discard
        all") looks feasible in almost all cases; would it be acceptable for me
        to attempt that?

        > > Also attached is a patch to disable guioptions="t" (tearoff menus) when
        > > compiled with FEAT_GUI_GNOME, also for desktop consistency.
        > You mean that the default is not to use tearoff menus, one can still
        > have them when wanted.
        Yes. Sorry for the confusion.

        Ed
      • Trenton Schulz
        ... Just being a lurker here, I would vote for this being in all GUIs (not that we get votes here). Having the actual save/discard vs. yes/ no makes it much
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 8, 2007
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          On Jan 7, 2007, at 1:03 PM, Bram Moolenaar wrote:

          >
          > Edward Catmur wrote:
          >
          >> This patch improves HIG compliance when compiled with FEAT_GUI_GNOME:
          >>
          >> * Close confirmation dialogs use "Save/Discard/Cancel" instead of
          >> "Yes/No/Cancel"
          >> * GTK_STOCK_SAVE used for "Save"
          >> * Default button placed at end of message dialog, with order
          >> passed in
          >> set as alternative button order
          >>
          >> vim_dialog_yesnocancel() is renamed to vim_dialog_savediscardcancel
          >> (),
          >> because that's all it's used for. Same for
          >> vim_dialog_yesnoallcancel().
          >
          > I'll look into this later. Perhaps Save/Discard/Cancel is better for
          > all GUIs, since you don't need to read the text to know whether "yes"
          > means "save" or "discard". But it will break the translations.

          Just being a lurker here, I would vote for this being in all GUIs
          (not that we get votes here). Having the actual save/discard vs. yes/
          no makes it much simpler to look at a message box and know which
          button to press (probably why the "File Changed" dialog in Vim is a
          bit easier to decide what to do than the "Save Changes" dialog IMO).

          FWIW, the OS X guidelines also recommend this as well, (though they
          seem to prefer "Don't Save", Discard is better than "No").

          Breaking translations is unfortunate though, but it is a one-time
          cost (hopefully)... Vim 7.1-type thing?

          -- Trenton
        • Martin Stubenschrott
          ... Would you also vote for changing the console style dialogs? I mean, console users are normally used to press y or n, when answering these kind of
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 8, 2007
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            On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 at 12:14:05PM +0100, Trenton Schulz wrote:
            > >I'll look into this later. Perhaps Save/Discard/Cancel is better for
            > >all GUIs, since you don't need to read the text to know whether "yes"
            > >means "save" or "discard". But it will break the translations.
            >
            > Just being a lurker here, I would vote for this being in all GUIs
            > (not that we get votes here). Having the actual save/discard vs. yes/
            > no makes it much simpler to look at a message box and know which
            > button to press (probably why the "File Changed" dialog in Vim is a
            > bit easier to decide what to do than the "Save Changes" dialog IMO).

            Would you also vote for changing the console style dialogs? I mean,
            console users are normally used to press y or n, when answering these
            kind of questions.

            --
            Martin
          • Trenton Schulz
            ... Well, don t you do that by typing :wq/:wq! or ZZ or whatever? Most of the other dialogs on the console version don t ask yes/no questions as far as I
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 8, 2007
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              On Jan 8, 2007, at 12:39 PM, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:

              > On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 at 12:14:05PM +0100, Trenton Schulz wrote:
              >>> I'll look into this later. Perhaps Save/Discard/Cancel is better
              >>> for
              >>> all GUIs, since you don't need to read the text to know whether
              >>> "yes"
              >>> means "save" or "discard". But it will break the translations.
              >>
              >> Just being a lurker here, I would vote for this being in all GUIs
              >> (not that we get votes here). Having the actual save/discard vs. yes/
              >> no makes it much simpler to look at a message box and know which
              >> button to press (probably why the "File Changed" dialog in Vim is a
              >> bit easier to decide what to do than the "Save Changes" dialog IMO).
              >
              > Would you also vote for changing the console style dialogs? I mean,
              > console users are normally used to press y or n, when answering these
              > kind of questions.

              Well, don't you do that by typing :wq/:wq! or ZZ or whatever? Most of
              the other "dialogs" on the console version don't ask yes/no questions
              as far as I have encountered. I think it is a non-issue for the
              console version...

              -- Trenton
            • Martin Stubenschrott
              ... Well, mostly I use ZZ, but sometimes :q, but have :set confirm on, so when there are unsaved changes, there is no need to press :q!, but just y to save the
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 8, 2007
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                On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 at 05:05:31PM +0100, Trenton Schulz wrote:
                > >Would you also vote for changing the console style dialogs? I mean,
                > >console users are normally used to press y or n, when answering these
                > >kind of questions.
                >
                > Well, don't you do that by typing :wq/:wq! or ZZ or whatever? Most of
                > the other "dialogs" on the console version don't ask yes/no questions
                > as far as I have encountered. I think it is a non-issue for the
                > console version...

                Well, mostly I use ZZ, but sometimes :q, but have :set confirm on, so
                when there are unsaved changes, there is no need to press :q!, but just
                y to save the changes, or n do discard them.

                --
                Martin
              • Nikolai Weibull
                ... % vim ... iHello, Vim! ... Save changes to Untitled ? [Y]es, (N)o, (C)ancel: Sure, [S]ave, (D)iscard, (C)ancel would work - and is better, as it
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 8, 2007
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                  On 1/8/07, Trenton Schulz <twschulz@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > On Jan 8, 2007, at 12:39 PM, Martin Stubenschrott wrote:

                  > > Would you also vote for changing the console style dialogs? I mean,
                  > > console users are normally used to press y or n, when answering these
                  > > kind of questions.
                  >
                  > Well, don't you do that by typing :wq/:wq! or ZZ or whatever? Most of
                  > the other "dialogs" on the console version don't ask yes/no questions
                  > as far as I have encountered. I think it is a non-issue for the
                  > console version...

                  % vim
                  :set confirm
                  iHello, Vim!<Esc>
                  :q
                  Save changes to "Untitled"?
                  [Y]es, (N)o, (C)ancel:

                  Sure, [S]ave, (D)iscard, (C)ancel would work - and is better, as it
                  better describes what would happen - but I'd venture so far as to say
                  that 'Y', 'N' are so deeply engrained in peoples minds by now that it
                  would be very irritating to have to hit 'S' or 'D' instead. I know I
                  would be annoyed. Still, perhaps it makes sense to change these as
                  well. And one could allow the user to type 'Y' or 'N' with the old
                  behavior as well.

                  nikolai
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