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Re: Do Not Reply To This Message:Re: Time to remove naming restrictions?

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  • Nikolai Weibull
    ... It s not posting to the mailing list, it s sending it to me, and I haven t asked for a return receipt or anything. One would hope that mailing list
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 2, 2006
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      On 10/2/06, Yakov Lerner <iler.ml@...> wrote:
      > Me too. I think it means that (1) "email address at KNBT that is
      > unavailable or no longer valid", and (2) it's time for you to add
      > special filtering rule to your mail reader. I mean, who said mail bot
      > cannot post to mailing list ?

      It's not posting to the mailing list, it's sending it to me, and I
      haven't asked for a return receipt or anything. One would hope that
      mailing list software + MTAs would get together and understand that I,
      the poster to the mailing list, don't want to know that some douchebag
      registered an email address with the mailing list and didn't remove
      themself from the mailing list when it was dropped at the recipient
      end. Also, it would be nice if the MTA in question would only send
      /one/ notification (during a given time period), not once every time.

      So anyway, I guess my request is for Felix von Leitner, or whoever
      doesn't maintain this mailing list anymore (according to earlier
      discussions on similar subjects), to remove the offending email
      address from the mailing address.

      Thanks.

      nikolai

      P.S.
      Sorry about the extra traffic about this.
      D.S.
    • A.J.Mechelynck
      ... [...] Yeah, I get them too. It means someone at knbt discontinued his mail account (or got it cancelled) without going to the trouble of unsubscribing from
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 3, 2006
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        Nikolai Weibull wrote:
        > I keep getting this f**king message every time I post to vim-dev.
        > Seriously, wtf?
        >
        > nikolai (awaiting another notification for this mail not getting through)
        >
        > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
        > From: System Administrator <system.administrator@...>
        > Date: 2 Oct 2006 14:19:05 -0400
        > Subject: Do Not Reply To This Message:Re: Time to remove naming
        > restrictions?
        > To: Nikolai Weibull <now@...>
        [...]

        Yeah, I get them too. It means someone at knbt discontinued his mail account
        (or got it cancelled) without going to the trouble of unsubscribing from Vim.
        Since the pseudo-bounce does not include the address in question, there's no
        way to know who it was. You can either blacklist system.administrator@...
        in your mail reader (e.g. by creating a new filter rule, 'if From: is
        "system.administrator@..." then Move to Trash'), or treat it in whatever
        manner you treat spam.

        And since the bounce doesn't go thru the list (it goes direct to the poster),
        no one can filter the bounces away in our place.


        Best regards,
        Tony.
      • Ali Akcaagac
        ... Hello, I m getting these mails as well.... I think this is definately no solution. Think about new people who like joining this mailinglist in regard of
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 3, 2006
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          On Tue, 2006-10-03 at 11:34 +0200, A.J.Mechelynck wrote:
          > You can either blacklist system.administrator@...
          > in your mail reader (e.g. by creating a new filter rule,
          > 'if From: is "system.administrator@..." then Move
          > to Trash'), or treat it in whatever manner you treat spam.

          Hello,

          I'm getting these mails as well....

          I think this is definately no solution. Think about new people who like
          joining this mailinglist in regard of contributing or giving feedback to
          this list. You definately don't want them to blacklist half a dozen
          "unwanted" emails before they can finally start posting something or
          participating to this mailinglist.

          mfg,

          Ali Akcaagac
        • A.J.Mechelynck
          ... [...] The mailbot is not posting to the mailing list. What happens is at follows: 1. Yakov Lerner posts to mailing list 2. Vim mailbot sends it to all
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 3, 2006
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            Yakov Lerner wrote:
            > Me too. I think it means that (1) "email address at KNBT that is
            > unavailable or no longer valid", and (2) it's time for you to add
            > special filtering rule to your mail reader. I mean, who said mail bot
            > cannot post to mailing list ?
            >
            > Yakov
            [...]

            The mailbot is not posting to the mailing list. What happens is at follows:

            1. Yakov Lerner posts to mailing list
            2. Vim mailbot sends it to all subscribed addresses.
            3. One of those subscribers is (let's say) foobar@...
            4. KNBT mail router accepts the mail.
            5. KNBT mail router (maybe another one) notices that foobar@... is unknown
            6. KNBT mail router sends a pseudo-bounce to the apparent author, i.e., Yakov
            Lerner. This is the message that you see; the vim mailbot doesn't.

            This points at a misconfiguration in KNBT's routers: what should happen is as
            follows:

            ...
            3. During handshaking between Vim mailbot and KNBT incoming mail exchanger,
            the latter notices that foobar@... is unknown and immediately gives a 550
            (or something) error reply to the "RCPT TO foobar@..." line.
            4. The mail itself is not transmitted to KNBT
            5. Vim mailbot notices that foobar@... couldn't be reached and remembers
            which list post couldn't be sent to him.
            6. After some time (or some number of failed emails), Vim listbot tries to
            send a recap email to foobar@... telling him which mails were rejected.
            7. Again, KNBT incoming mail exchanger refuses the transaction.
            8. Vim listbot tries to send a probe email to foobar@...
            9. Again, KNBT inmx refuses the transaction
            10. Vim listbot unsubscribes foobar@...

            This second scenario is much cleaner in that we never see any pseudo-bounces,
            and eventually the unsubscribe does take place.


            Best regards,
            Tony.
          • A.J.Mechelynck
            Nikolai Weibull wrote: [...] ... The problem is, not only the KNBT pseudo-bounce is misdirected, it is incomplete. In particular, it doesn t say which address
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 3, 2006
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              Nikolai Weibull wrote:
              [...]
              > So anyway, I guess my request is for Felix von Leitner, or whoever
              > doesn't maintain this mailing list anymore (according to earlier
              > discussions on similar subjects), to remove the offending email
              > address from the mailing address.
              >
              > Thanks.
              >
              > nikolai
              >
              > P.S.
              > Sorry about the extra traffic about this.
              > D.S.
              >

              The problem is, not only the KNBT pseudo-bounce is misdirected, it is
              incomplete. In particular, it doesn't say which address was not found, so all
              Felix (or Bram or someone) can know is that "someone" @... is no longer a
              valid address. But they can't go forcibly unsubscribing _every_ @...
              subscriber, can they? Quite probably there are more than one.


              Best regards,
              Tony.
            • David Brown
              ... Most mailers these days are not configured to do this. It makes it way to easy to quickly troll a domain for valid addresses for generating spam. I
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 3, 2006
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                A.J.Mechelynck wrote:

                > 3. During handshaking between Vim mailbot and KNBT incoming mail
                > exchanger, the latter notices that foobar@... is unknown and
                > immediately gives a 550 (or something) error reply to the "RCPT TO
                > foobar@..." line.

                Most mailers these days are not configured to do this. It makes it way to
                easy to quickly troll a domain for valid addresses for generating spam.

                I suspect this is how almost all mailers are going to work. It gets worse
                when mailing lists put themselves in a reply-to header. Then everyone on
                the list gets the bounce.

                There sure have been a lot of replies to a message with a sugject starting
                with "Do Not Reply To This Message..."

                Dave
              • Ilya Sher
                A.J.Mechelynck wrote: [snip] ... Anyone knows how much of *@knbt.com are subscribed ? If they are not many we can even do manual check(s)... ... -- For robots
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 3, 2006
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                  A.J.Mechelynck wrote:

                  [snip]

                  > The problem is, not only the KNBT pseudo-bounce is misdirected, it is
                  > incomplete. In particular, it doesn't say which address was not found,
                  > so all Felix (or Bram or someone) can know is that "someone" @...
                  > is no longer a valid address. But they can't go forcibly unsubscribing
                  > _every_ @... subscriber, can they? Quite probably there are more
                  > than one.
                  Anyone knows how much of *@... are subscribed ?
                  If they are not many we can even do manual check(s)...
                  >
                  >
                  > Best regards,
                  > Tony.


                  --
                  For robots (please don't mail me there): part-maps@...
                  My real email is ilya @ same domain
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