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Fwd: Do Not Reply To This Message:Re: Time to remove naming restrictions?

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  • Nikolai Weibull
    I keep getting this f**king message every time I post to vim-dev. Seriously, wtf? nikolai (awaiting another notification for this mail not getting through) ...
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 2, 2006
      I keep getting this f**king message every time I post to vim-dev.
      Seriously, wtf?

      nikolai (awaiting another notification for this mail not getting through)

      ---------- Forwarded message ----------
      From: System Administrator <system.administrator@...>
      Date: 2 Oct 2006 14:19:05 -0400
      Subject: Do Not Reply To This Message:Re: Time to remove naming restrictions?
      To: Nikolai Weibull <now@...>






      You have reached an email address at KNBT that is unavailable or no
      longer valid. If you have any questions please call our customer
      service number at 1-800-996-2062 (toll-free), Monday – Friday: 7:00
      a.m. - 7:00 p.m. and Saturday: 8:00 a.m. - 2:00 p.m.

      Thank You,

      We are very sorry for any inconvenience.



      KNBT
      Banking, Insurance, Investments, Trust
      system.administrator@...
      Office: Fax:



      http://www.knbt.com


      "This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
      intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
      are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error, please
      notify the system manager. Please note that any views or opinions
      presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not
      necessarily represent those of Keystone Nazareth Bank & Trust.
      Finally, the recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments
      for the presence of viruses. Keystone Nazareth Bank & Trust accepts no
      liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this
      e-mail."
    • Yakov Lerner
      Me too. I think it means that (1) email address at KNBT that is unavailable or no longer valid , and (2) it s time for you to add special filtering rule to
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 2, 2006
        Me too. I think it means that (1) "email address at KNBT that is
        unavailable or no longer valid", and (2) it's time for you to add
        special filtering rule to your mail reader. I mean, who said mail bot
        cannot post to mailing list ?

        Yakov

        On 10/2/06, Nikolai Weibull <now@...> wrote:
        > I keep getting this f**king message every time I post to vim-dev.
        > Seriously, wtf?
        >
        > nikolai (awaiting another notification for this mail not getting through)
        >
        > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
        > From: System Administrator <system.administrator@...>
        > Date: 2 Oct 2006 14:19:05 -0400
        > Subject: Do Not Reply To This Message:Re: Time to remove naming restrictions?
        > To: Nikolai Weibull <now@...>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > You have reached an email address at KNBT that is unavailable or no
        > longer valid. If you have any questions please call our customer
        > service number at 1-800-996-2062 (toll-free), Monday – Friday: 7:00
        > a.m. - 7:00 p.m. and Saturday: 8:00 a.m. - 2:00 p.m.
        >
        > Thank You,
        >
        > We are very sorry for any inconvenience.
        >
        >
        >
        > KNBT
        > Banking, Insurance, Investments, Trust
        > system.administrator@...
        > Office: Fax:
        >
        >
        >
        > http://www.knbt.com
        >
        >
        > "This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
        > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
        > are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error, please
        > notify the system manager. Please note that any views or opinions
        > presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not
        > necessarily represent those of Keystone Nazareth Bank & Trust.
        > Finally, the recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments
        > for the presence of viruses. Keystone Nazareth Bank & Trust accepts no
        > liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this
        > e-mail."
        >
      • Nikolai Weibull
        ... It s not posting to the mailing list, it s sending it to me, and I haven t asked for a return receipt or anything. One would hope that mailing list
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 2, 2006
          On 10/2/06, Yakov Lerner <iler.ml@...> wrote:
          > Me too. I think it means that (1) "email address at KNBT that is
          > unavailable or no longer valid", and (2) it's time for you to add
          > special filtering rule to your mail reader. I mean, who said mail bot
          > cannot post to mailing list ?

          It's not posting to the mailing list, it's sending it to me, and I
          haven't asked for a return receipt or anything. One would hope that
          mailing list software + MTAs would get together and understand that I,
          the poster to the mailing list, don't want to know that some douchebag
          registered an email address with the mailing list and didn't remove
          themself from the mailing list when it was dropped at the recipient
          end. Also, it would be nice if the MTA in question would only send
          /one/ notification (during a given time period), not once every time.

          So anyway, I guess my request is for Felix von Leitner, or whoever
          doesn't maintain this mailing list anymore (according to earlier
          discussions on similar subjects), to remove the offending email
          address from the mailing address.

          Thanks.

          nikolai

          P.S.
          Sorry about the extra traffic about this.
          D.S.
        • A.J.Mechelynck
          ... [...] Yeah, I get them too. It means someone at knbt discontinued his mail account (or got it cancelled) without going to the trouble of unsubscribing from
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 3, 2006
            Nikolai Weibull wrote:
            > I keep getting this f**king message every time I post to vim-dev.
            > Seriously, wtf?
            >
            > nikolai (awaiting another notification for this mail not getting through)
            >
            > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
            > From: System Administrator <system.administrator@...>
            > Date: 2 Oct 2006 14:19:05 -0400
            > Subject: Do Not Reply To This Message:Re: Time to remove naming
            > restrictions?
            > To: Nikolai Weibull <now@...>
            [...]

            Yeah, I get them too. It means someone at knbt discontinued his mail account
            (or got it cancelled) without going to the trouble of unsubscribing from Vim.
            Since the pseudo-bounce does not include the address in question, there's no
            way to know who it was. You can either blacklist system.administrator@...
            in your mail reader (e.g. by creating a new filter rule, 'if From: is
            "system.administrator@..." then Move to Trash'), or treat it in whatever
            manner you treat spam.

            And since the bounce doesn't go thru the list (it goes direct to the poster),
            no one can filter the bounces away in our place.


            Best regards,
            Tony.
          • Ali Akcaagac
            ... Hello, I m getting these mails as well.... I think this is definately no solution. Think about new people who like joining this mailinglist in regard of
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 3, 2006
              On Tue, 2006-10-03 at 11:34 +0200, A.J.Mechelynck wrote:
              > You can either blacklist system.administrator@...
              > in your mail reader (e.g. by creating a new filter rule,
              > 'if From: is "system.administrator@..." then Move
              > to Trash'), or treat it in whatever manner you treat spam.

              Hello,

              I'm getting these mails as well....

              I think this is definately no solution. Think about new people who like
              joining this mailinglist in regard of contributing or giving feedback to
              this list. You definately don't want them to blacklist half a dozen
              "unwanted" emails before they can finally start posting something or
              participating to this mailinglist.

              mfg,

              Ali Akcaagac
            • A.J.Mechelynck
              ... [...] The mailbot is not posting to the mailing list. What happens is at follows: 1. Yakov Lerner posts to mailing list 2. Vim mailbot sends it to all
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 3, 2006
                Yakov Lerner wrote:
                > Me too. I think it means that (1) "email address at KNBT that is
                > unavailable or no longer valid", and (2) it's time for you to add
                > special filtering rule to your mail reader. I mean, who said mail bot
                > cannot post to mailing list ?
                >
                > Yakov
                [...]

                The mailbot is not posting to the mailing list. What happens is at follows:

                1. Yakov Lerner posts to mailing list
                2. Vim mailbot sends it to all subscribed addresses.
                3. One of those subscribers is (let's say) foobar@...
                4. KNBT mail router accepts the mail.
                5. KNBT mail router (maybe another one) notices that foobar@... is unknown
                6. KNBT mail router sends a pseudo-bounce to the apparent author, i.e., Yakov
                Lerner. This is the message that you see; the vim mailbot doesn't.

                This points at a misconfiguration in KNBT's routers: what should happen is as
                follows:

                ...
                3. During handshaking between Vim mailbot and KNBT incoming mail exchanger,
                the latter notices that foobar@... is unknown and immediately gives a 550
                (or something) error reply to the "RCPT TO foobar@..." line.
                4. The mail itself is not transmitted to KNBT
                5. Vim mailbot notices that foobar@... couldn't be reached and remembers
                which list post couldn't be sent to him.
                6. After some time (or some number of failed emails), Vim listbot tries to
                send a recap email to foobar@... telling him which mails were rejected.
                7. Again, KNBT incoming mail exchanger refuses the transaction.
                8. Vim listbot tries to send a probe email to foobar@...
                9. Again, KNBT inmx refuses the transaction
                10. Vim listbot unsubscribes foobar@...

                This second scenario is much cleaner in that we never see any pseudo-bounces,
                and eventually the unsubscribe does take place.


                Best regards,
                Tony.
              • A.J.Mechelynck
                Nikolai Weibull wrote: [...] ... The problem is, not only the KNBT pseudo-bounce is misdirected, it is incomplete. In particular, it doesn t say which address
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 3, 2006
                  Nikolai Weibull wrote:
                  [...]
                  > So anyway, I guess my request is for Felix von Leitner, or whoever
                  > doesn't maintain this mailing list anymore (according to earlier
                  > discussions on similar subjects), to remove the offending email
                  > address from the mailing address.
                  >
                  > Thanks.
                  >
                  > nikolai
                  >
                  > P.S.
                  > Sorry about the extra traffic about this.
                  > D.S.
                  >

                  The problem is, not only the KNBT pseudo-bounce is misdirected, it is
                  incomplete. In particular, it doesn't say which address was not found, so all
                  Felix (or Bram or someone) can know is that "someone" @... is no longer a
                  valid address. But they can't go forcibly unsubscribing _every_ @...
                  subscriber, can they? Quite probably there are more than one.


                  Best regards,
                  Tony.
                • David Brown
                  ... Most mailers these days are not configured to do this. It makes it way to easy to quickly troll a domain for valid addresses for generating spam. I
                  Message 8 of 9 , Oct 3, 2006
                    A.J.Mechelynck wrote:

                    > 3. During handshaking between Vim mailbot and KNBT incoming mail
                    > exchanger, the latter notices that foobar@... is unknown and
                    > immediately gives a 550 (or something) error reply to the "RCPT TO
                    > foobar@..." line.

                    Most mailers these days are not configured to do this. It makes it way to
                    easy to quickly troll a domain for valid addresses for generating spam.

                    I suspect this is how almost all mailers are going to work. It gets worse
                    when mailing lists put themselves in a reply-to header. Then everyone on
                    the list gets the bounce.

                    There sure have been a lot of replies to a message with a sugject starting
                    with "Do Not Reply To This Message..."

                    Dave
                  • Ilya Sher
                    A.J.Mechelynck wrote: [snip] ... Anyone knows how much of *@knbt.com are subscribed ? If they are not many we can even do manual check(s)... ... -- For robots
                    Message 9 of 9 , Oct 3, 2006
                      A.J.Mechelynck wrote:

                      [snip]

                      > The problem is, not only the KNBT pseudo-bounce is misdirected, it is
                      > incomplete. In particular, it doesn't say which address was not found,
                      > so all Felix (or Bram or someone) can know is that "someone" @...
                      > is no longer a valid address. But they can't go forcibly unsubscribing
                      > _every_ @... subscriber, can they? Quite probably there are more
                      > than one.
                      Anyone knows how much of *@... are subscribed ?
                      If they are not many we can even do manual check(s)...
                      >
                      >
                      > Best regards,
                      > Tony.


                      --
                      For robots (please don't mail me there): part-maps@...
                      My real email is ilya @ same domain
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