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Re: "window tabs" and "frames/pages"

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  • Bram Moolenaar
    ... I see, you can change that in Firefox. Well, it s just that I like the default and I don t see a very good reason to do otherwise. Especially because we
    Message 1 of 26 , Feb 3, 2006
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      Tony Mechelynck wrote:

      > Bram Moolenaar wrote:
      > > Mat Zyzik wrote:
      > [...]
      > >> 3. Have something similar to 'laststatus', but call it 'framestatus',
      > >> accepting these values: 0 (never), 1 (>2 frames), and 2 (always). 0
      > >> means the tabs are hidden. 1 means they appear like the "status line" if
      > >> there are two or more frames; and the line can be at the top of vim. 2
      > >> means these tabs are always visible.
      > >
      > > Is there a reason to always show tabs? Firefox uses tabs quite nicely,
      > > and it doesn't show tabs until there is more than one page. Appears to
      > > work just fine.
      > [...]
      >
      > That's an option (a preference, if you will: the corresponding menu is
      > named "Tools -> Options" on Windows and, I've been told, "Edit ->
      > Preferences" on Unix). Personally I prefer to always show tabs in
      > Firefox, even in the (rare for me) case that there's only one of them.
      > Of course, Vim is not Firefox, and Vim has status lines (there too, I
      > use ":set laststatus=2", i.e., always).

      I see, you can change that in Firefox. Well, it's just that I like the
      default and I don't see a very good reason to do otherwise. Especially
      because we have never had tabs until now.

      > I wonder how tabs will appear if
      > the idea is to make one tab correspond to a set of several windows: for
      > instance, will some options such as 'equalalways' or 'winheight' get a
      > different value in each tab (or frame or page, the name isn't that
      > important)? And what about 'encoding'? Will some options get three
      > values (local-to-window, global-to-tab, global-to-Vim)?

      At first there will be no local-to-tab options. It will make things
      quite complicated, thus hopefully we can avoid them.

      Note that it's very easy to come up with all kinds of extra things once
      you have tabs. But I really want to keep the number of options and
      commands to a minimum. We have more than enough of them already!

      --
      Vi is clearly superior to emacs, since "vi" has only two characters
      (and two keystrokes), while "emacs" has five. (Randy C. Ford)

      /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
      /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
      \\\ download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org ///
      \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://www.ICCF.nl ///
    • Benji Fisher
      ... While discussing design issues for tabs, I think we should also think about multiple gwindows (that is, windows in the GUI sense) for gvim. From the
      Message 2 of 26 , Feb 3, 2006
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        On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 02:44:26PM +0100, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
        >
        > At first there will be no local-to-tab options. It will make things
        > quite complicated, thus hopefully we can avoid them.
        >
        > Note that it's very easy to come up with all kinds of extra things once
        > you have tabs. But I really want to keep the number of options and
        > commands to a minimum. We have more than enough of them already!

        While discussing design issues for tabs, I think we should also
        think about multiple gwindows (that is, windows in the GUI sense) for
        gvim. From the user's point of view, a separate gwindow is a lot like a
        separate tab that is displayed differently. A lot of the same issues
        come up: should :windo and :bufdo act on the current tab/gwindow or on
        all of them; which options should, by default, stick with a single
        tab/gwindow; is there a separate command history for each tab/gwindow;
        etc.

        If you add up the votes for tabs and multiple gwindows on
        http://www.vim.org/sponsor/vote_results.php
        (which is not to say that this is actually justified) you get the second
        most popular RFE. I am not suggesting that we tackle both right now,
        just that we pay attention to common issues.

        --Benji Fisher
      • A. J. Mechelynck
        ... At the moment, multiple gwindows exist in the form of multiple instances of gvim (or didn t I understand what you meant by gwindows?). (Some programs, like
        Message 3 of 26 , Feb 3, 2006
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          Benji Fisher wrote:
          > On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 02:44:26PM +0100, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
          >> At first there will be no local-to-tab options. It will make things
          >> quite complicated, thus hopefully we can avoid them.
          >>
          >> Note that it's very easy to come up with all kinds of extra things once
          >> you have tabs. But I really want to keep the number of options and
          >> commands to a minimum. We have more than enough of them already!
          >
          > While discussing design issues for tabs, I think we should also
          > think about multiple gwindows (that is, windows in the GUI sense) for
          > gvim. From the user's point of view, a separate gwindow is a lot like a
          > separate tab that is displayed differently. A lot of the same issues
          > come up: should :windo and :bufdo act on the current tab/gwindow or on
          > all of them; which options should, by default, stick with a single
          > tab/gwindow; is there a separate command history for each tab/gwindow;
          > etc.
          >
          > If you add up the votes for tabs and multiple gwindows on
          > http://www.vim.org/sponsor/vote_results.php
          > (which is not to say that this is actually justified) you get the second
          > most popular RFE. I am not suggesting that we tackle both right now,
          > just that we pay attention to common issues.
          >
          > --Benji Fisher
          >
          >
          >

          At the moment, multiple gwindows exist in the form of multiple instances
          of gvim (or didn't I understand what you meant by gwindows?). (Some
          programs, like Firefox, will open a different window or tab but not a
          different instance of the executable each time they are invoked).

          Settings common to all gwindows exist in the form of a common vimrc.
          However, changing settings (even global settings like 'encoding' and
          'guifont') in one gwindow doesn't carry over to the other ones. This is
          very important to me: I need to be able to edit several files with ":set
          enc=latin1 gfn=Lucida_Console:h8:cDEFAULT" (in Latin-only text, but
          possibly in languages like French or German, which use many diacritics
          which English sees only in foreign words) in one gvim, a couple more
          with ":set enc=utf8 gfn=Courier_New:h12:cDEFAULT" in another (with Latin
          and Arabic text), and maybe still one or two additional files with ":set
          enc=utf8 gfn=MingLiU:h16:cDEFAULT" in a third one (with Latin and
          Chinese text). I wouldn't want gvim to force such settings to carry over
          from one GUI to the next (as might happen if all invocations were
          referred to a single instance of the executable).


          Best regards,
          Tony.
        • Milan Vancura
          ... As I think about tabs in Firefox or Opera, especialy after I have installed the nice extension Duplicate Tab which can also merge more windows to one, I
          Message 4 of 26 , Feb 3, 2006
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            > Note that it's very easy to come up with all kinds of extra things once
            > you have tabs. But I really want to keep the number of options and
            > commands to a minimum. We have more than enough of them already!

            As I think about tabs in Firefox or Opera, especialy after I have installed the
            nice extension Duplicate Tab which can also merge more windows to one, I feel
            the differencies between windows and tabs are only these:

            1. all tabs have the same window size
            2. they are displayed at the same area on the screen, only one is visible at
            every time
            3. you have only one record in a system window list for the whole set of tabs,
            all manipulations with an order of tabs etc. is done in the "parent window",
            not in the system itself

            And that's all. If you change window-local property, it will be usualy changed
            in one tab only - there are specialy mentioned exceptions when not (for example
            window size :-) ).

            If I look at these three points, I think normal window splitting with some
            setting to show only of them at each time is very near to "tabs" - all you need
            to full feeling of (Firefox) tabs is to write names of all windows/tabs to
            status line. That's all.

            Am I missed something? Or do you plan vim tabs will do something more than tabs
            in Opera, Firefox, KDE shell Konsole etc. ?

            Milan Vancura
          • mzyzik@gmail.com
            ... The reason to always show tabs is the same as the reason to always show the status line. I personally set laststatus = 2. It s just a preference. I was
            Message 5 of 26 , Feb 3, 2006
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              > > 3. Have something similar to 'laststatus', but call it 'framestatus',
              > > accepting these values: 0 (never), 1 (>2 frames), and 2 (always). 0
              > > means the tabs are hidden. 1 means they appear like the "status line" if
              > > there are two or more frames; and the line can be at the top of vim. 2
              > > means these tabs are always visible.
              >
              > Is there a reason to always show tabs? Firefox uses tabs quite nicely,
              > and it doesn't show tabs until there is more than one page. Appears to
              > work just fine.
              >

              The reason to always show tabs is the same as the reason to always show the status
              line. I personally set laststatus = 2. It's just a preference. I was
              under the impression that it would be quite easy to implement; and
              consistency-wise, it's a plus. In firefox and vim, I would probably show
              tabs when there's more than one page; yet still I think something like
              framestatus is important. Firefox does have the option to change the
              behavior. Maybe it "works fine" because everyone is configuring it :) ??

              > I don't want to hide the tabs, because you can't see what you are doing.
              > It's too easy to forget that you have windows that you are currently not
              > seeing.

              When hiding the laststatus, I can't see the filename I'm working with
              unless I edit 'rulerformat', yet I don't. Who cares if you forget what
              windows you have. At least you won't forget which buffers you have open.
              Since :buffers acts like :ls; you could have :frames act like an :ls for
              frames. What I don't like about "pages" is that :pclose is already for
              the preview window. You could do :pgclose, but it's ugly.

              --Matt Zyzik
            • mzyzik@gmail.com
              ... I actually never thought of this. It s the behavior that emacs has. When in gui mode, new windows are created for frames; and they re not when in console
              Message 6 of 26 , Feb 3, 2006
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                > While discussing design issues for tabs, I think we should also
                > think about multiple gwindows (that is, windows in the GUI sense) for
                > gvim. From the user's point of view, a separate gwindow is a lot like a
                > separate tab that is displayed differently. A lot of the same issues
                > come up: should :windo and :bufdo act on the current tab/gwindow or on
                > all of them; which options should, by default, stick with a single
                > tab/gwindow; is there a separate command history for each tab/gwindow;
                > etc.
                >
                > If you add up the votes for tabs and multiple gwindows on
                > http://www.vim.org/sponsor/vote_results.php
                > (which is not to say that this is actually justified) you get the second
                > most popular RFE. I am not suggesting that we tackle both right now,
                > just that we pay attention to common issues.
                >
                > --Benji Fisher

                I actually never thought of this. It's the behavior that emacs has. When
                in gui mode, new windows are created for frames; and they're not when in
                console mode.
                I personally don't need the "multiple gwindows" because if I have enough
                room on my screen for another window, I would rather just maximize vim
                and split vertically. But this is a good thought; maybe others would
                want it.
              • mzyzik@gmail.com
                You are missing something. File editing is different than browsing. You might need to see two files at the same time when editing a third. You might want to
                Message 7 of 26 , Feb 3, 2006
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                  You are missing something. File editing is different than browsing. You
                  might need to see two files at the same time when editing a third. You
                  might want to then create a new frame temporarily to browse through one
                  file, then switch back to the previous window layout. And if you are
                  working on a complicated project, you might want to have multiple window
                  layouts, and switch back and forth between them.

                  --Matt

                  On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 04:22:50PM +0100, Milan Vancura wrote:
                  > > Note that it's very easy to come up with all kinds of extra things once
                  > > you have tabs. But I really want to keep the number of options and
                  > > commands to a minimum. We have more than enough of them already!
                  >
                  > As I think about tabs in Firefox or Opera, especialy after I have installed the
                  > nice extension Duplicate Tab which can also merge more windows to one, I feel
                  > the differencies between windows and tabs are only these:
                  >
                  > 1. all tabs have the same window size
                  > 2. they are displayed at the same area on the screen, only one is visible at
                  > every time
                  > 3. you have only one record in a system window list for the whole set of tabs,
                  > all manipulations with an order of tabs etc. is done in the "parent window",
                  > not in the system itself
                  >
                  > And that's all. If you change window-local property, it will be usualy changed
                  > in one tab only - there are specialy mentioned exceptions when not (for example
                  > window size :-) ).
                  >
                  > If I look at these three points, I think normal window splitting with some
                  > setting to show only of them at each time is very near to "tabs" - all you need
                  > to full feeling of (Firefox) tabs is to write names of all windows/tabs to
                  > status line. That's all.
                  >
                  > Am I missed something? Or do you plan vim tabs will do something more than tabs
                  > in Opera, Firefox, KDE shell Konsole etc. ?
                  >
                  > Milan Vancura
                • Bram Moolenaar
                  ... There is one important difference: with multiple tabs you still have only one command line. With multiple toplevel windows you will have multiple command
                  Message 8 of 26 , Feb 3, 2006
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                    Benji Fisher wrote:

                    > On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 02:44:26PM +0100, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
                    > >
                    > > At first there will be no local-to-tab options. It will make things
                    > > quite complicated, thus hopefully we can avoid them.
                    > >
                    > > Note that it's very easy to come up with all kinds of extra things once
                    > > you have tabs. But I really want to keep the number of options and
                    > > commands to a minimum. We have more than enough of them already!
                    >
                    > While discussing design issues for tabs, I think we should also
                    > think about multiple gwindows (that is, windows in the GUI sense) for
                    > gvim. From the user's point of view, a separate gwindow is a lot like a
                    > separate tab that is displayed differently. A lot of the same issues
                    > come up: should :windo and :bufdo act on the current tab/gwindow or on
                    > all of them; which options should, by default, stick with a single
                    > tab/gwindow; is there a separate command history for each tab/gwindow;
                    > etc.
                    >
                    > If you add up the votes for tabs and multiple gwindows on
                    > http://www.vim.org/sponsor/vote_results.php
                    > (which is not to say that this is actually justified) you get the second
                    > most popular RFE. I am not suggesting that we tackle both right now,
                    > just that we pay attention to common issues.

                    There is one important difference: with multiple tabs you still have
                    only one command line. With multiple toplevel windows you will have
                    multiple command lines. That creates a lot of issues that aren't easy
                    to tackle... Also, having multiple Visual areas, multiple states, etc.
                    It's probably easier to run gvim twice and have them communicate.

                    --
                    hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict:
                    252. You vote for foreign officials.

                    /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
                    /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
                    \\\ download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org ///
                    \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://www.ICCF.nl ///
                  • Mikolaj Machowski
                    Dnia pi±tek, 3 lutego 2006 15:31, Benji Fisher napisa³: Personally I think it would be nice if there could be possibility to treat all separate windows (or
                    Message 9 of 26 , Feb 3, 2006
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                      Dnia piątek, 3 lutego 2006 15:31, Benji Fisher napisał:

                      Personally I think it would be nice if there could be possibility to
                      treat all separate windows (or chosen subset of them) as one session.
                      Especially to have one common list of buffers and auto switching
                      between windows with :buffer command.

                      > If you add up the votes for tabs and multiple gwindows on
                      > http://www.vim.org/sponsor/vote_results.php

                      Yep. Time to renew my votes :)

                      m.
                    • Stefano Zacchiroli
                      ... Agreed, I often work with multiple gvim windows for instance. But an easy way to start up another gvim from one in execution would be a real plus. Also, in
                      Message 10 of 26 , Feb 4, 2006
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                        On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 07:54:18PM +0100, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
                        > to tackle... Also, having multiple Visual areas, multiple states, etc.
                        > It's probably easier to run gvim twice and have them communicate.

                        Agreed, I often work with multiple gvim windows for instance.
                        But an easy way to start up another gvim from one in execution would be
                        a real plus.

                        Also, in such a way of working, a (optional) feature like: start a new
                        gvim with the current set of windows/tabs/buffer would be valuable.

                        Just my 0.02 EUR.
                        Cheers.

                        --
                        Stefano Zacchiroli -*- Computer Science PhD student @ Uny Bologna, Italy
                        zack@{cs.unibo.it,debian.org,bononia.it} -%- http://www.bononia.it/zack/
                        If there's any real truth it's that the entire multidimensional infinity
                        of the Universe is almost certainly being run by a bunch of maniacs. -!-
                      • Benji Fisher
                        ... Both of these can be implemented as user-defined commands/maps/menus. Assuming that gvim is in your path, ... will start up a new instance. If you want
                        Message 11 of 26 , Feb 4, 2006
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                          On Sat, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:38:15AM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
                          > On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 07:54:18PM +0100, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
                          > > to tackle... Also, having multiple Visual areas, multiple states, etc.
                          > > It's probably easier to run gvim twice and have them communicate.
                          >
                          > Agreed, I often work with multiple gvim windows for instance.
                          > But an easy way to start up another gvim from one in execution would be
                          > a real plus.
                          >
                          > Also, in such a way of working, a (optional) feature like: start a new
                          > gvim with the current set of windows/tabs/buffer would be valuable.
                          >
                          > Just my 0.02 EUR.
                          > Cheers.

                          Both of these can be implemented as user-defined
                          commands/maps/menus. Assuming that gvim is in your path,

                          :!gvim

                          will start up a new instance. If you want the current windows and
                          buffers, then

                          :mksession <tempfile>
                          :gvim -S <tempfile>

                          will do.

                          The problem is that you will then get a bunch of warning messages,
                          telling you that the buffers are all being edited already: edit
                          read-only, edit anyway, recover, or quit? With multiple tabs or with
                          multiple gwindows, you would not want this to happen: there is only one
                          running gvim, and it has one copy of each buffer no matter how many
                          windows/tabs/gwindows are viewing it.

                          BTW, others have asked why you would ever want to hide the tabs if
                          there are multiple tabs open. Here is one scenario: I am writing a
                          script, and I prefer to use :s rather than substitute(). I would like
                          to open a temporary buffer. If I can do this in a hidden tab, then I do
                          not have to worry about messing up the current view. This also argues
                          for the option of having separate command and search histories for each
                          tab.

                          --Benji Fisher
                        • Johnny Blaze
                          ... Why not make tabs a display option for split windows? Something like: set tabs then when you do a :sball or :new, you get tabs instead of windows... set
                          Message 12 of 26 , Feb 5, 2006
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                            On 2/4/06, Benji Fisher <benji@...> wrote:
                            > On Sat, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:38:15AM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
                            > > On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 07:54:18PM +0100, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
                            > > > to tackle... Also, having multiple Visual areas, multiple states, etc.
                            > > > It's probably easier to run gvim twice and have them communicate.
                            > >
                            > > Agreed, I often work with multiple gvim windows for instance.
                            > > But an easy way to start up another gvim from one in execution would be
                            > > a real plus.
                            > >
                            > > Also, in such a way of working, a (optional) feature like: start a new
                            > > gvim with the current set of windows/tabs/buffer would be valuable.
                            > >
                            > > Just my 0.02 EUR.
                            > > Cheers.
                            >
                            > Both of these can be implemented as user-defined
                            > commands/maps/menus. Assuming that gvim is in your path,
                            >
                            > :!gvim
                            >
                            > will start up a new instance. If you want the current windows and
                            > buffers, then
                            >
                            > :mksession <tempfile>
                            > :gvim -S <tempfile>
                            >
                            > will do.
                            >
                            > The problem is that you will then get a bunch of warning messages,
                            > telling you that the buffers are all being edited already: edit
                            > read-only, edit anyway, recover, or quit? With multiple tabs or with
                            > multiple gwindows, you would not want this to happen: there is only one
                            > running gvim, and it has one copy of each buffer no matter how many
                            > windows/tabs/gwindows are viewing it.
                            >
                            > BTW, others have asked why you would ever want to hide the tabs if
                            > there are multiple tabs open. Here is one scenario: I am writing a
                            > script, and I prefer to use :s rather than substitute(). I would like
                            > to open a temporary buffer. If I can do this in a hidden tab, then I do
                            > not have to worry about messing up the current view. This also argues
                            > for the option of having separate command and search histories for each
                            > tab.
                            >
                            > --Benji Fisher
                            >

                            Why not make tabs a display option for split windows? Something like:

                            set tabs

                            then when you do a :sball or :new, you get tabs instead of windows...

                            set notabs

                            then when you do a :sball or :new, you get the current behavior with
                            out any kind of tab-line.


                            --

                            . o O pyromancer O o .
                          • A. J. Mechelynck
                            ... Hello Johnny. Without changing anything in the current versions of ... Only the current buffer s contents (the current tab s, if you will) will be visible,
                            Message 13 of 26 , Feb 5, 2006
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                              Johnny Blaze wrote:
                              > On 2/4/06, Benji Fisher <benji@...> wrote:
                              >> On Sat, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:38:15AM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
                              >>> On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 07:54:18PM +0100, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
                              >>>> to tackle... Also, having multiple Visual areas, multiple states, etc.
                              >>>> It's probably easier to run gvim twice and have them communicate.
                              >>> Agreed, I often work with multiple gvim windows for instance.
                              >>> But an easy way to start up another gvim from one in execution would be
                              >>> a real plus.
                              >>>
                              >>> Also, in such a way of working, a (optional) feature like: start a new
                              >>> gvim with the current set of windows/tabs/buffer would be valuable.
                              >>>
                              >>> Just my 0.02 EUR.
                              >>> Cheers.
                              >> Both of these can be implemented as user-defined
                              >> commands/maps/menus. Assuming that gvim is in your path,
                              >>
                              >> :!gvim
                              >>
                              >> will start up a new instance. If you want the current windows and
                              >> buffers, then
                              >>
                              >> :mksession <tempfile>
                              >> :gvim -S <tempfile>
                              >>
                              >> will do.
                              >>
                              >> The problem is that you will then get a bunch of warning messages,
                              >> telling you that the buffers are all being edited already: edit
                              >> read-only, edit anyway, recover, or quit? With multiple tabs or with
                              >> multiple gwindows, you would not want this to happen: there is only one
                              >> running gvim, and it has one copy of each buffer no matter how many
                              >> windows/tabs/gwindows are viewing it.
                              >>
                              >> BTW, others have asked why you would ever want to hide the tabs if
                              >> there are multiple tabs open. Here is one scenario: I am writing a
                              >> script, and I prefer to use :s rather than substitute(). I would like
                              >> to open a temporary buffer. If I can do this in a hidden tab, then I do
                              >> not have to worry about messing up the current view. This also argues
                              >> for the option of having separate command and search histories for each
                              >> tab.
                              >>
                              >> --Benji Fisher
                              >>
                              >
                              > Why not make tabs a display option for split windows? Something like:
                              >
                              > set tabs
                              >
                              > then when you do a :sball or :new, you get tabs instead of windows...
                              >
                              > set notabs
                              >
                              > then when you do a :sball or :new, you get the current behavior with
                              > out any kind of tab-line.
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              >
                              > . o O pyromancer O o .

                              Hello Johnny. Without changing anything in the current versions of
                              (g)vim, you can use "Rolodex Vim", as follows:

                              :set noequalalways winminheight=0 winheight=99999

                              or if you're lazy ;-) :

                              :set noea wmh=0 wh=999

                              Only the current buffer's contents (the current tab's, if you will) will
                              be visible, and all other "horizontally split windows" will be reduced
                              to a status line each and nothing else (displaying the corresponding
                              filename). Think of these status lines (above and below the active tab
                              contents) as colored tabs (or black with white print) on the edges of
                              the pages of a Rolodex before and after the current one. Click on a
                              "tab" to open it, or use {number}^Ww to open the nth one, ^Ww with no
                              number for the next one, ^WW for the previous one (in the two latter
                              cases, in round-robin fashion).


                              Best regards,
                              Tony.
                            • mzyzik@gmail.com
                              ... It s easier and better and more logical just to create new commands for creating new frames. Why would someone want to change tabs/notabs on the fly when
                              Message 14 of 26 , Feb 5, 2006
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                                > Why not make tabs a display option for split windows? Something like:
                                >
                                > set tabs
                                >
                                > then when you do a :sball or :new, you get tabs instead of windows...
                                >
                                > set notabs
                                >
                                > then when you do a :sball or :new, you get the current behavior with
                                > out any kind of tab-line.
                                >
                                >
                                > --
                                >
                                > . o O pyromancer O o .

                                It's easier and better and more logical just to create new commands
                                for creating new frames.
                                Why would someone want to change tabs/notabs on the fly when they can
                                just have a command like :frall or :fnew?

                                --Matt
                              • Gautam Iyer
                                ... Well for me the real plus of having multiple windows is to detach tabs! Would that be easy to implement if you have multiple gvim instances
                                Message 15 of 26 , Feb 5, 2006
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                                  On Sat, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:38:15AM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:

                                  > On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 07:54:18PM +0100, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > to tackle... Also, having multiple Visual areas, multiple states, etc.
                                  > > It's probably easier to run gvim twice and have them communicate.
                                  >
                                  > Agreed, I often work with multiple gvim windows for instance.
                                  > But an easy way to start up another gvim from one in execution would be
                                  > a real plus.

                                  Well for me the real plus of having multiple windows is to "detach"
                                  tabs! Would that be easy to implement if you have multiple gvim
                                  instances communicating?

                                  If you do manage to do this with multiple gvim instances communicating,
                                  then I'm hoping that tabs (and buffers) can be somehow magically moved
                                  between console vim instances (which is all I use anyway!).

                                  But yes, I'm all for multiple windows and (detachable) tabs!

                                  :)

                                  GI

                                  --
                                  Microsoft broke Volkswagen's world record: Volkswagen only made 22
                                  million bugs!
                                • Zdenek Sekera
                                  ... And mine too!
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Feb 6, 2006
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                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: Mikolaj Machowski [mailto:mikmach@...]
                                    > Sent: 03 February 2006 20:48
                                    > To: vim-dev@...
                                    > Subject: Re: "window tabs" and "frames/pages"
                                    >
                                    > Dnia piątek, 3 lutego 2006 15:31, Benji Fisher napisał:
                                    >
                                    > Personally I think it would be nice if there could be possibility to
                                    > treat all separate windows (or chosen subset of them) as one session.
                                    > Especially to have one common list of buffers and auto switching
                                    > between windows with :buffer command.
                                    >
                                    > > If you add up the votes for tabs and multiple gwindows on
                                    > > http://www.vim.org/sponsor/vote_results.php
                                    >
                                    > Yep. Time to renew my votes :)

                                    And mine too!

                                    ---Zdenek
                                  • Benji Fisher
                                    ... Good point: if multiple windows are implemented by having more communication between different instances of vim, there is no need to insist on gvim.
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Feb 6, 2006
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                                      On Sun, Feb 05, 2006 at 03:30:30PM -0600, Gautam Iyer wrote:
                                      > On Sat, Feb 04, 2006 at 10:38:15AM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > On Fri, Feb 03, 2006 at 07:54:18PM +0100, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > > to tackle... Also, having multiple Visual areas, multiple states, etc.
                                      > > > It's probably easier to run gvim twice and have them communicate.
                                      > >
                                      > > Agreed, I often work with multiple gvim windows for instance.
                                      > > But an easy way to start up another gvim from one in execution would be
                                      > > a real plus.
                                      >
                                      > Well for me the real plus of having multiple windows is to "detach"
                                      > tabs! Would that be easy to implement if you have multiple gvim
                                      > instances communicating?
                                      >
                                      > If you do manage to do this with multiple gvim instances communicating,
                                      > then I'm hoping that tabs (and buffers) can be somehow magically moved
                                      > between console vim instances (which is all I use anyway!).
                                      >
                                      > But yes, I'm all for multiple windows and (detachable) tabs!

                                      Good point: if multiple windows are implemented by having more
                                      communication between different instances of vim, there is no need to
                                      insist on gvim.

                                      Design issues: this would force a lot of decisions on us. The two
                                      instances of vim would have separate histories (search, command-line,
                                      jumps, etc.); global options changed in one would not affect the other;
                                      new mappings, commands, etc. defined in one would not affect the other.
                                      Is this what we want? It should be possible to do the equivalent of
                                      making a session file and loading it, so that the two instances start
                                      off in the same state.

                                      Implementation issues: I am not really competent to discuss this,
                                      but I suspect that the main difficulty would be allowing two instances
                                      of vim to share a buffer.

                                      OT: is it possible in Mozilla to detach a tab, so that the web page in
                                      the tab gets its own window?

                                      --Benji Fisher
                                    • mzyzik@gmail.com
                                      ... Undoubtedly implementing the multiple windows to represent frames/pages will be difficult to implement. I think Bram would be reluctant to introduce
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Feb 6, 2006
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                                        > Good point: if multiple windows are implemented by having more
                                        > communication between different instances of vim, there is no need to
                                        > insist on gvim.
                                        >
                                        > Design issues: this would force a lot of decisions on us. The two
                                        > instances of vim would have separate histories (search, command-line,
                                        > jumps, etc.); global options changed in one would not affect the other;
                                        > new mappings, commands, etc. defined in one would not affect the other.
                                        > Is this what we want? It should be possible to do the equivalent of
                                        > making a session file and loading it, so that the two instances start
                                        > off in the same state.
                                        >
                                        > Implementation issues: I am not really competent to discuss this,
                                        > but I suspect that the main difficulty would be allowing two instances
                                        > of vim to share a buffer.
                                        >
                                        > OT: is it possible in Mozilla to detach a tab, so that the web page in
                                        > the tab gets its own window?
                                        >
                                        > --Benji Fisher

                                        Undoubtedly implementing the multiple windows to represent
                                        "frames/pages" will be difficult to implement. I think Bram would be
                                        reluctant to introduce frames in Vim7 if this was a requirement. We
                                        should consider this once the tabs and frames are working well within
                                        one window.
                                        Basically what I'm saying is, we should just get the frames working
                                        first, hopefully in Vim7, and then consider the multiple windows per
                                        frames later. Besides, the two votes in the top 10 are for frames, and
                                        tabs for those frames; with no mention of multiple windows.

                                        --Matt
                                      • Benji Fisher
                                        ... In my first post on this thread, I advocated considering the design issues of multiple windows at the same time that we discuss tabs, and I still think
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Feb 6, 2006
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                                          On Mon, Feb 06, 2006 at 10:27:11AM -0500, mzyzik@... wrote:
                                          > > Good point: if multiple windows are implemented by having more
                                          > > communication between different instances of vim, there is no need to
                                          > > insist on gvim.
                                          > >
                                          > > Design issues: this would force a lot of decisions on us. The two
                                          > > instances of vim would have separate histories (search, command-line,
                                          > > jumps, etc.); global options changed in one would not affect the other;
                                          > > new mappings, commands, etc. defined in one would not affect the other.
                                          > > Is this what we want? It should be possible to do the equivalent of
                                          > > making a session file and loading it, so that the two instances start
                                          > > off in the same state.
                                          > >
                                          > > Implementation issues: I am not really competent to discuss this,
                                          > > but I suspect that the main difficulty would be allowing two instances
                                          > > of vim to share a buffer.
                                          > >
                                          > > OT: is it possible in Mozilla to detach a tab, so that the web page in
                                          > > the tab gets its own window?
                                          > >
                                          > > --Benji Fisher
                                          >
                                          > Undoubtedly implementing the multiple windows to represent
                                          > "frames/pages" will be difficult to implement. I think Bram would be
                                          > reluctant to introduce frames in Vim7 if this was a requirement. We
                                          > should consider this once the tabs and frames are working well within
                                          > one window.

                                          In my first post on this thread, I advocated considering the design
                                          issues of multiple windows at the same time that we discuss tabs, and I
                                          still think that is a good idea. Since I am not volunteering to do any
                                          development, I do not have much to say about when to implement these
                                          features. Maybe it is right to have tabs in vim 7.0 and put off windows
                                          until 7.2 or 8.0.

                                          > Basically what I'm saying is, we should just get the frames working
                                          > first, hopefully in Vim7, and then consider the multiple windows per
                                          > frames later. Besides, the two votes in the top 10 are for frames, and
                                          > tabs for those frames; with no mention of multiple windows.

                                          I am not sure what you mean by that last sentence. Are we looking
                                          at the same list? From http://www.vim.org/sponsor/vote_results.php :

                                          9 146 (-12) 32 -8 support multiple top-level windows for one running Vim

                                          --Benji Fisher
                                        • A. J. Mechelynck
                                          ... [...] ... [...] ... [...] ... Didn t realize you knew about it (and didn t like it). Sorry. Best regards, Tony.
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Feb 6, 2006
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                                            Johnny Blaze wrote:
                                            > On 2/5/06, *A. J. Mechelynck* < antoine.mechelynck@...
                                            > <mailto:antoine.mechelynck@...>> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Johnny Blaze wrote:
                                            [...]
                                            > > Why not make tabs a display option for split windows? Something like:
                                            > >
                                            > > set tabs
                                            > >
                                            > > then when you do a :sball or :new, you get tabs instead of windows...
                                            > >
                                            > > set notabs
                                            [...]
                                            > Hello Johnny. Without changing anything in the current versions of
                                            > (g)vim, you can use "Rolodex Vim", as follows:
                                            >
                                            > :set noequalalways winminheight=0 winheight=99999
                                            [...]
                                            > oh I know... anytime anyone asks this question, you paste the above
                                            > text, and I point them to my script (multiwin.vim ).
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --
                                            >
                                            > . o O pyromancer O o .

                                            Didn't realize you knew about it (and didn't like it). Sorry.


                                            Best regards,
                                            Tony.
                                          • mzyzik@gmail.com
                                            ... Yeah but I think that means frames/pages, doesn t it? I very possibly could be wrong. --Matt
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Feb 6, 2006
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                                              > > Basically what I'm saying is, we should just get the frames working
                                              > > first, hopefully in Vim7, and then consider the multiple windows per
                                              > > frames later. Besides, the two votes in the top 10 are for frames, and
                                              > > tabs for those frames; with no mention of multiple windows.
                                              >
                                              > I am not sure what you mean by that last sentence. Are we looking
                                              > at the same list? From http://www.vim.org/sponsor/vote_results.php :
                                              >
                                              > 9 146 (-12) 32 -8 support multiple top-level windows for one running Vim
                                              >
                                              > --Benji Fisher

                                              Yeah but I think that means frames/pages, doesn't it?
                                              I very possibly could be wrong.

                                              --Matt
                                            • Johnny Blaze
                                              ... Its not that I don t like it... you gave me the orignal idea that started the script :-) -- you re actually credited in the script s description on
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Feb 8, 2006
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                                                On 2/7/06, A. J. Mechelynck <antoine.mechelynck@...> wrote:
                                                > Johnny Blaze wrote:
                                                > > On 2/5/06, *A. J. Mechelynck* < antoine.mechelynck@...
                                                > > <mailto:antoine.mechelynck@...>> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > Johnny Blaze wrote:
                                                > [...]
                                                > > > Why not make tabs a display option for split windows? Something like:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > set tabs
                                                > > >
                                                > > > then when you do a :sball or :new, you get tabs instead of windows...
                                                > > >
                                                > > > set notabs
                                                > [...]
                                                > > Hello Johnny. Without changing anything in the current versions of
                                                > > (g)vim, you can use "Rolodex Vim", as follows:
                                                > >
                                                > > :set noequalalways winminheight=0 winheight=99999
                                                > [...]
                                                > > oh I know... anytime anyone asks this question, you paste the above
                                                > > text, and I point them to my script (multiwin.vim ).

                                                > Didn't realize you knew about it (and didn't like it). Sorry.

                                                Its not that I don't like it... you gave me the orignal idea that
                                                started the script :-) -- you're actually credited in the script's
                                                description on vim.org... :-)

                                                --

                                                . o O pyromancer O o .
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