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Vim 7 snapshot 163

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  • Bram Moolenaar
    To make maintenance simpler I have removed the support for Mac OS 9 and the KDE GUI. Everybody appears to use OS/X now. The KDE GUI never worked very well
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 6, 2005
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      To make maintenance simpler I have removed the support for Mac OS 9 and
      the KDE GUI. Everybody appears to use OS/X now. The KDE GUI never
      worked very well and the maintainers have moved on to work on Yzis.

      Let me know if there are undesired side effects or when some more things
      can be removed.

      --
      GUARD #1: What -- a swallow carrying a coconut?
      ARTHUR: It could grip it by the husk!
      GUARD #1: It's not a question of where he grips it! It's a simple question
      of weight ratios! A five ounce bird could not carry a 1 pound
      coconut.
      The Quest for the Holy Grail (Monty Python)

      /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
      /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
      \\\ download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org ///
      \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://www.ICCF.nl ///
    • Aschwin Marsman
      ... I can understand why you removed it but one of the great things of vim is that it can be used from a PDA (I had it on my Linux Agenda, because of a bad LCD
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 6, 2005
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        On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Bram Moolenaar wrote:

        > To make maintenance simpler I have removed the support for Mac OS 9 and
        > the KDE GUI. Everybody appears to use OS/X now. The KDE GUI never
        > worked very well and the maintainers have moved on to work on Yzis.

        I can understand why you removed it but one of the great things of vim
        is that it can be used from a PDA (I had it on my Linux Agenda, because
        of a bad LCD display not in use anymore, I'm looking at getting a Sharp
        Zaurus) to the Amiga to the S390 etc. I understand you can only spent
        your time once.

        Any vim users with Yzis experience? If I look at the schedule
        http://www.yzis.org/schedule
        Milestone 4 (summer 2005)
        is still ongoing.

        It looks like a lot of duplicated effort to me, with yet another scripting
        language:

        -----------------8<----------------8<----------------8<---------------

        Yzis a brand new editor inspired by vim. Yzis aims to be a powerful, fast
        editor with all of Vim's features and hopefully, at some point, more.

        In Yzis, the core editing functionality is placed in a library, and
        interfaces are written on top of that. As of now, there are frontends for
        KDE and ncurses. Especially the KDE-interface provides an easy-to-use
        interface for users and allows you to have tabs for different buffers and
        a GUI that allows you to change things like colour schemes and syntax
        highlighting easily, while still letting (g)vim users feel at home.

        By using the powerful scripting language Lua, you can also easily extend
        yzis' functionality with scripts.

        With an editing-engine clearly separated from the GUI, the different
        interfaces can be written to be closely integrated in their respective
        environments. The KDE frontend, kyzis, can be seamlessly embedded in KDE
        apps like Kdevelop.

        libyzis is published under the terms of the LGPL.
        kyzis and nyzis are published under the terms of the GPL.
        -----------------8<----------------8<----------------8<---------------

        Are there contributions back from Yzis to vim?

        > Let me know if there are undesired side effects or when some more things
        > can be removed.

        Best regards,

        Aschwin Marsman

        --
        aschwin@... http://www.marsman.org
      • Aschwin Marsman
        ... I looked at the mailing list archives, newest developer message is from september, newest user message is from august. Is the Yzis project still alive?
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 7, 2005
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          On Wed, 7 Dec 2005, Aschwin Marsman wrote:

          > On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
          >
          > Any vim users with Yzis experience? If I look at the schedule
          > http://www.yzis.org/schedule
          > Milestone 4 (summer 2005)
          > is still ongoing.

          I looked at the mailing list archives, newest developer message
          is from september, newest user message is from august. Is the
          Yzis project still alive?

          Best regards,

          Aschwin Marsman

          --
          aschwin@... http://www.marsman.org
        • Bram Moolenaar
          ... Hey, I didn t write that! ... Most projects have a quick start and then run into the bulky/difficult work, which is when progress slows down a lot. I
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 7, 2005
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            Aschwin Marsman wrote:

            > On Wed, 7 Dec 2005, Aschwin Marsman wrote:
            >
            > > On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
            > >
            > > Any vim users with Yzis experience? If I look at the schedule
            > > http://www.yzis.org/schedule
            > > Milestone 4 (summer 2005)
            > > is still ongoing.

            Hey, I didn't write that!

            > I looked at the mailing list archives, newest developer message
            > is from september, newest user message is from august. Is the
            > Yzis project still alive?

            Most projects have a quick start and then run into the bulky/difficult
            work, which is when progress slows down a lot. I think that's what is
            happening. Whether they get going again remains to be seen...

            --
            Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are.

            /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
            /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
            \\\ download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org ///
            \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://www.ICCF.nl ///
          • Bram Moolenaar
            ... If you want to use Vim on Mac OS 9 you can use Vim 6.4. I don t see much of a problem in that. It s a stable platform, you would not need fancy new
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 7, 2005
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              Aschwin Marsman wrote:

              > On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
              >
              > > To make maintenance simpler I have removed the support for Mac OS 9 and
              > > the KDE GUI. Everybody appears to use OS/X now. The KDE GUI never
              > > worked very well and the maintainers have moved on to work on Yzis.
              >
              > I can understand why you removed it but one of the great things of vim
              > is that it can be used from a PDA (I had it on my Linux Agenda, because
              > of a bad LCD display not in use anymore, I'm looking at getting a Sharp
              > Zaurus) to the Amiga to the S390 etc. I understand you can only spent
              > your time once.

              If you want to use Vim on Mac OS 9 you can use Vim 6.4. I don't see
              much of a problem in that. It's a stable platform, you would not need
              fancy new features there.

              You can still use Vim with KDE, of course, but not with the Qt library.
              Using GTK should work for everyone. It's more free anyway.

              > Are there contributions back from Yzis to vim?

              I haven't noticed something.

              --
              ARTHUR: Will you ask your master if he wants to join my court at Camelot?!
              GUARD #1: But then of course African swallows are not migratory.
              GUARD #2: Oh, yeah...
              GUARD #1: So they couldn't bring a coconut back anyway...
              The Quest for the Holy Grail (Monty Python)

              /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
              /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
              \\\ download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org ///
              \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://www.ICCF.nl ///
            • Aschwin Marsman
              ... Agreed. ... Let s not get into those discussions, there is already a project to merge a lot of those libraries (I tried to compile a Gnome application,
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 7, 2005
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                On Wed, 7 Dec 2005, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
                > > On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
                > >
                > If you want to use Vim on Mac OS 9 you can use Vim 6.4. I don't see
                > much of a problem in that. It's a stable platform, you would not need
                > fancy new features there.

                Agreed.

                > You can still use Vim with KDE, of course, but not with the Qt library.
                > Using GTK should work for everyone. It's more free anyway.

                Let's not get into those discussions, there is already a project to merge
                a lot of those libraries (I tried to compile a Gnome application, when
                you don't have the correct development library versions you get in a
                -real- dependancy hell). It's not free in my opion, it costs a lot of
                spare (free) time.

                Is the problem the C++ dependancy needed for Qt or is it just that it is
                unmaintainted?

                Best regards,

                Aschwin Marsman

                --
                aschwin@... http://www.marsman.org
              • Vince Negri
                Can anyone else get through to cvs.sourceforge.net? I m getting timeout errors - usually I dont have a problem.
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 7, 2005
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                  Can anyone else get through to cvs.sourceforge.net? I'm getting timeout
                  errors - usually I dont' have a problem.

                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Bram@... [SMTP:Bram@...]
                  > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 8:28 PM
                  > To: vim-dev@...
                  > Subject: Vim 7 snapshot 163
                  >
                  >
                  > To make maintenance simpler I have removed the support for Mac OS 9
                  > and
                  > the KDE GUI. Everybody appears to use OS/X now. The KDE GUI never
                  > worked very well and the maintainers have moved on to work on Yzis.
                  >
                  > Let me know if there are undesired side effects or when some more
                  > things
                  > can be removed.
                  >
                  > --
                  >
                  > /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net
                  > \\\
                  > /// sponsor Vim, vote for features --
                  > http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
                  > \\\ download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org
                  > ///
                  > \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://www.ICCF.nl
                  > ///
                • Vince Negri
                  ... is it just that it is ... AFAIK it s the maintenance issue, not the C++ dependancy. Generally, if someone is willing to step up to the plate and actively
                  Message 8 of 12 , Dec 7, 2005
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                    > Aschwin Marsman [SMTP:aschwin@...] wrote:
                    >
                    > Is the problem [with the KDE port] the C++ dependancy needed for Qt or
                    is it just that it is
                    > unmaintainted?

                    AFAIK it's the maintenance issue, not the C++ dependancy. Generally, if
                    someone is willing to step up to the plate and actively maintain
                    something,
                    then it'll stay - the existence of an active maintainer (a) shows that
                    there is someone who really wants the port and (b) stops the port being
                    a drain on Bram's limited time.
                  • Chris Allen
                    ... I get these *all* *the* *time*. It is unusual for me to get immediate service from cvs.sourceforge.net. I usually have to re-try at least once, often as
                    Message 9 of 12 , Dec 7, 2005
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                      On 07/12/05, Vince Negri <vnegri@...> wrote:
                      > Can anyone else get through to cvs.sourceforge.net? I'm getting timeout
                      > errors - usually I dont' have a problem.

                      I get these *all* *the* *time*. It is unusual for me to get immediate
                      service from cvs.sourceforge.net. I usually have to re-try at least
                      once, often as many as 5 times, and service is rarely fast even when
                      it does work. This affects multiple projects, so I assume the
                      mirroring system just isn't up to demand.

                      Sometimes, it seems, you just get what you pay for.

                      Chris Allen
                    • Zdenek Sekera
                      ... Me too. ... Idem. ... Exactly. ... Arrgh.
                      Message 10 of 12 , Dec 7, 2005
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                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Chris Allen [mailto:c.d.allen@...]
                        > Sent: 07 December 2005 15:49
                        > To: Vince Negri
                        > Cc: vim developers list
                        > Subject: Re: Vim 7 snapshot 163
                        >
                        > On 07/12/05, Vince Negri <vnegri@...> wrote:
                        > > Can anyone else get through to cvs.sourceforge.net? I'm
                        > getting timeout
                        > > errors - usually I dont' have a problem.
                        >
                        > I get these *all* *the* *time*.

                        Me too.

                        > It is unusual for me to get immediate
                        > service from cvs.sourceforge.net.

                        Idem.

                        > I usually have to re-try at least
                        > once, often as many as 5 times, and service is rarely fast even when
                        > it does work.

                        Exactly.

                        > This affects multiple projects, so I assume the
                        > mirroring system just isn't up to demand.
                        >
                        > Sometimes, it seems, you just get what you pay for.

                        Arrgh.

                        ---Zdenek
                      • Aschwin Marsman
                        ... But doesn t this leave kde users with a bad choice? All Qt/KDE related vim options seam to have vanished. How bad was the KDE/Qt support in vim7? Is it
                        Message 11 of 12 , Dec 7, 2005
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                          On Wed, 7 Dec 2005, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
                          > Aschwin Marsman wrote:

                          > > I looked at the mailing list archives, newest developer message
                          > > is from september, newest user message is from august. Is the
                          > > Yzis project still alive?
                          >
                          > Most projects have a quick start and then run into the bulky/difficult
                          > work, which is when progress slows down a lot. I think that's what is
                          > happening. Whether they get going again remains to be seen...

                          But doesn't this leave kde users with a bad choice?

                          All Qt/KDE related vim options seam to have vanished.

                          How bad was the KDE/Qt support in vim7? Is it fixable?

                          Best regards,

                          Aschwin Marsman

                          --
                          aschwin@... http://www.marsman.org
                        • Bram Moolenaar
                          ... The KDE GUI version that uses the Qt library was removed, yes. ... Depending on the environment Vim would hang on startup, not show any text and have
                          Message 12 of 12 , Dec 8, 2005
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                            Aschwin Marsman wrote:

                            > > > I looked at the mailing list archives, newest developer message
                            > > > is from september, newest user message is from august. Is the
                            > > > Yzis project still alive?
                            > >
                            > > Most projects have a quick start and then run into the bulky/difficult
                            > > work, which is when progress slows down a lot. I think that's what is
                            > > happening. Whether they get going again remains to be seen...
                            >
                            > But doesn't this leave kde users with a bad choice?
                            >
                            > All Qt/KDE related vim options seam to have vanished.

                            The KDE GUI version that uses the Qt library was removed, yes.

                            > How bad was the KDE/Qt support in vim7?

                            Depending on the environment Vim would hang on startup, not show
                            any text and have resizing problems.

                            > Is it fixable?

                            Of course it's fixable. The GTK version works just fine under KDE. But
                            if nobody does the work and there is no hope for someone doing it then I
                            give up.

                            --
                            A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems.
                            Paul Erdos
                            A computer programmer is a device for turning coffee into bugs.
                            Bram Moolenaar

                            /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
                            /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
                            \\\ download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org ///
                            \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://www.ICCF.nl ///
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