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Re: Problem with " digit" in latest Vim 6.3 beta

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  • Bram Moolenaar
    ... No, Vim should and does use the system codepage. Opening a console doesn t mean the files on the system are suddenly encoded differently. There might be a
    Message 1 of 24 , May 30 10:52 AM
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      Alejandro Lopez-Valencia wrote:

      > I think this is a bug. Vim should set encoding to the console termencoding
      > when starting up.

      No, Vim should and does use the system codepage. Opening a console
      doesn't mean the files on the system are suddenly encoded differently.

      There might be a few "old" DOS files around, but most files on
      MS-Windows systems these days are latin1. Or some other encoding, if
      you are not a latin1 user. Could be anything, actually. The system
      codepage is the best guess.

      What _is_ clear is that the encoding of the console is known to Vim,
      thus it sets 'termencoding' to match it. Conversion from latin1 to
      cp437 does result in more characters being displayed properly.

      --
      Often you're less important than your furniture. If you think about it, you
      can get fired but your furniture stays behind, gainfully employed at the
      company that didn't need _you_ anymore.
      (Scott Adams - The Dilbert principle)

      /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
      /// Sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
      \\\ Project leader for A-A-P -- http://www.A-A-P.org ///
      \\\ Buy at Amazon and help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF.nl/click1.html ///
    • Bram Moolenaar
      ... Previously this was done wrong. A latin1 file was displayed as cp437 in the terminal. That caused all characters above 128 to be displayed wrong. Most
      Message 2 of 24 , May 30 10:52 AM
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        David Kotchan wrote:

        > What I don't understand is why/when all of this suddenly changed. I've been
        > using Vim since v2.7 (long ago), and this is the first time ^V has done
        > anything out of the ordinary. As I mentioned above, v6.2 does not behave
        > this way.

        Previously this was done wrong. A latin1 file was displayed as cp437 in
        the terminal. That caused all characters above 128 to be displayed
        wrong.

        Most files are latin1 these days. Perhaps you have a few old DOS files
        in cp437, you need to specify this when you edit them or set 'encoding'
        to cp437.

        --
        All good vision statements are created by groups of people with bloated
        bladders who would rather be doing anything else.
        (Scott Adams - The Dilbert principle)

        /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
        /// Sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
        \\\ Project leader for A-A-P -- http://www.A-A-P.org ///
        \\\ Buy at Amazon and help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF.nl/click1.html ///
      • Bram Moolenaar
        ... I don t like dependencies, especially if you have to find and download a package from the MS site. -- You have heard the saying that if you put a thousand
        Message 3 of 24 , May 30 10:52 AM
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          Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:

          > Re Win9x support for Unicode: maybe we could require the
          > installation of the unicode support library for win9x?
          > OpenOffice.org does it.

          I don't like dependencies, especially if you have to find and download a
          package from the MS site.

          --
          You have heard the saying that if you put a thousand monkeys in a room with a
          thousand typewriters and waited long enough, eventually you would have a room
          full of dead monkeys.
          (Scott Adams - The Dilbert principle)

          /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
          /// Sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
          \\\ Project leader for A-A-P -- http://www.A-A-P.org ///
          \\\ Buy at Amazon and help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF.nl/click1.html ///
        • Antoine J. Mechelynck
          Alejandro Lopez-Valencia wrote: [...] ... dead when Longhorn comes out as well. So what? o Vim is multi-platform, and the more the
          Message 4 of 24 , May 30 11:04 AM
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            Alejandro Lopez-Valencia <dradul@...> wrote:
            [...]
            > And, if you forgive me, win9x is dead, dead, dead. Win32 will be very much
            dead when Longhorn comes out as well.

            So what?

            o Vim is multi-platform, and the more the merrier.
            o Whatever happens ("chat échaudé craint l'eau froide", como se dice en
            francés) I'm not going to give any more of my hard-earned Euros to Mr. Gates
            and his hatchetmen for yet another non-working unsupported nickel-plated
            mastodont. ("Your version of the Windows OS is to be supported only and
            exclusively by your computer hardware vendor" -- Yeah, sure. And when I went
            back to the place where I'd bought it, there was a tailor's shop in the
            place of the computer shop and no mention of where it had gone.)

            Regards,
            Tony.
          • Bram Moolenaar
            ... I know several people that keep a system with DOS and Windows 3.1, because the applications they use are not available on more recent Windows versions. Old
            Message 5 of 24 , May 30 11:24 AM
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              Alejandro Lopez-Valencia wrote:

              > But you miss the point! The thing is this would simplify the present win32
              > multibyte code in vim because there would be one and only one API to
              > program to, reducing the potential (and real) bugs in the code. And, if you
              > forgive me, win9x is dead, dead, dead. Win32 will be very much dead when
              > Longhorn comes out as well.

              I know several people that keep a system with DOS and Windows 3.1,
              because the applications they use are not available on more recent
              Windows versions.

              Old operating systems don't die, they fade away.

              --
              hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict:
              1. You actually wore a blue ribbon to protest the Communications Decency Act.

              /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
              /// Sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
              \\\ Project leader for A-A-P -- http://www.A-A-P.org ///
              \\\ Buy at Amazon and help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF.nl/click1.html ///
            • Alejandro Lopez-Valencia
              ... That you are beating a dead horse :-) It is a fact of life that we are using some version of Windows, but we won t very soon for reasons unbeknowst to
              Message 6 of 24 , May 30 12:44 PM
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                At 01:04 p.m. 30/05/2004, Antoine J. Mechelynck wrote:

                >Alejandro Lopez-Valencia <dradul@...> wrote:
                >[...]
                > > And, if you forgive me, win9x is dead, dead, dead. Win32 will be very much
                >dead when Longhorn comes out as well.
                >
                >So what?

                That you are beating a dead horse :-) It is a fact of life that we are
                using some version of Windows, but we won't very soon for reasons
                unbeknowst to others; reasons as different as budget, security, technical
                quality or whatnot. It will be something that will suit better our
                particular needs. But to make a political stand out of it, omigod! ;-)
              • Alejandro Lopez-Valencia
                ... On second thought, I agree with you. I, for one, am aware of only two files in cp437/cp850 in my system and both are vendor provided files. The fact that
                Message 7 of 24 , May 30 1:09 PM
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                  At 12:52 p.m. 30/05/2004, Bram Moolenaar wrote:

                  >Alejandro Lopez-Valencia wrote:
                  >
                  > > I think this is a bug. Vim should set encoding to the console termencoding
                  > > when starting up.
                  >
                  >No, Vim should and does use the system codepage. Opening a console
                  >doesn't mean the files on the system are suddenly encoded differently.

                  On second thought, I agree with you. I, for one, am aware of only two files
                  in cp437/cp850 in my system and both are vendor provided files. The fact
                  that one of them is the multiboot menu irks me to no end. :-)
                • Antoine J. Mechelynck
                  ... ¡Dios mio! indeed, so don t. Oh well, I m not thinking straight; ¡Buenas noches! Tony.
                  Message 8 of 24 , May 30 1:37 PM
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                    Alejandro Lopez-Valencia <dradul@...> wrote:
                    > At 01:04 p.m. 30/05/2004, Antoine J. Mechelynck wrote:
                    >
                    > > Alejandro Lopez-Valencia <dradul@...> wrote:
                    > > [...]
                    > > > And, if you forgive me, win9x is dead, dead, dead. Win32 will be
                    > > > very much
                    > > dead when Longhorn comes out as well.
                    > >
                    > > So what?
                    >
                    > That you are beating a dead horse :-) It is a fact of life that we are
                    > using some version of Windows, but we won't very soon for reasons
                    > unbeknowst to others; reasons as different as budget, security,
                    > technical quality or whatnot. It will be something that will suit
                    > better our
                    > particular needs. But to make a political stand out of it, omigod! ;-)

                    ¡Dios mio! indeed, so don't. Oh well, I'm not thinking straight; ¡Buenas
                    noches!

                    Tony.
                  • Giuseppe Bilotta
                    ... I *think* the library can be packaged/distributed with the program. IIRC OOo does it. (If that s the only thing keeping you from doing it.) -- Giuseppe
                    Message 9 of 24 , May 30 1:47 PM
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                      Bram Moolenaar wrote:
                      >
                      > Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:
                      >
                      > > Re Win9x support for Unicode: maybe we could require the
                      > > installation of the unicode support library for win9x?
                      > > OpenOffice.org does it.
                      >
                      > I don't like dependencies, especially if you have to find and download a
                      > package from the MS site.

                      I *think* the library can be packaged/distributed with the
                      program. IIRC OOo does it. (If that's the only thing keeping
                      you from doing it.)

                      --
                      Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

                      Can't you see
                      It all makes perfect sense
                      Expressed in dollar and cents
                      Pounds shillings and pence
                      (Roger Waters)
                    • George V. Reilly
                      ... From: Antoine J. Mechelynck ... feature, ... According to
                      Message 10 of 24 , May 30 2:19 PM
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                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Antoine J. Mechelynck" <antoine.mechelynck@...>
                        > > I proposed Bram to use unicows.dll a couple of months ago, and the
                        > > issue
                        > > came up again last week. The main concern is the ability to do dynamic
                        > > loading of the same kind done for libintl.dll and iconv.dll. Do you
                        > > think
                        > > it is possible?
                        >
                        > (I might be wrong, but) I suppose it is, by adding a new compiling
                        feature,
                        > let's say +unicows/dyn or something like that; but IMHO it should remain
                        > possible (as it is now) to edit Unicode data even with -unicows (and
                        > +multi_byte of course).

                        According to
                        http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/handson/dev/mslu_announce.mspx (the
                        homepage for unicows):
                        Does not slow down applications on WinNT/2K/XP - The custom loader
                        for unicows.dll is built into unicows.lib and compiled with your
                        application. It does not even load MSLU unless you are on a Win95/98/ME
                        machine! The technology is similar to the VC++ delayload mechanism, but is
                        an independent solution that does not rely on any particular compiler.

                        Clearly, there's some smarts built into the unicows.lib stub that you link
                        into your application (vim or gvim), which bypasses a direct dependency on
                        unicows.dll. Vim should run just fine even if there's no unicows.dll in the
                        path on WinNT/2K/XP. Presumably it also runs, somewhat degraded, on
                        95/98/Me. This whole paragraph is surmise, and I don't have time to
                        experiment for myself in the next few days. I'll try to reach someone at
                        Microsoft who should be able to answer this authoritatively.

                        --
                        Every bride has to learn it's not her wedding but her mother's.
                        (Get Witty Auto-Generated Signatures from http://SmartBee.org)
                        George V. Reilly george@...
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