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Re: Small nit in the manual

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  • Bram Moolenaar
    ... Right, thanks for the correction. Sending me unified diffs is fine, but a few people with older systems can t handle them. -- Support your right to bare
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 2, 2004
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      François Pinard wrote:

      > Hi, people. Would you check if the following diff is appropriate? I
      > guess that the manual says the contrary of what is meant. This is for
      > Vim 6.2.

      Right, thanks for the correction.

      Sending me unified diffs is fine, but a few people with older systems
      can't handle them.

      --
      Support your right to bare arms! Wear short sleeves!

      /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
      /// Creator of Vim - Vi IMproved -- http://www.Vim.org \\\
      \\\ Project leader for A-A-P -- http://www.A-A-P.org ///
      \\\ Help AIDS victims, buy here: http://ICCF-Holland.org/click1.html ///
    • Benji Fisher
      ... [snip] ... I am sorry. I interpreted the first line quoted above as asking for advice on the format as well as the content of the diff. ... I think the
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 2, 2004
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        > On Thu, Jan 01, 2004 at 09:06:25PM -0500, François Pinard wrote:
        > > Hi, people. Would you check if the following diff is appropriate? I
        [snip]

        On Thu, Jan 01, 2004 at 10:20:33PM -0500, François Pinard wrote:
        > [Benji Fisher]
        >
        > > I agree with the content of your change. As for format, I prefer to
        > > use the same one as the official patches: context-style diffs (diff
        > > -c) generated from the top-level distribution directory. Something
        > > like this for a single file:
        >
        > This is annoying... Some maintainers like context diffs and hate
        > unidiffs, other maintainers just want the contrary. I find it difficult
        > to remember, for every tool I use, what are the little whims of each
        > maintainer. They all try to educate me into their particular habits.

        I am sorry. I interpreted the first line quoted above as asking
        for advice on the format as well as the content of the diff.

        > Plain diffs, I would understand. But context diffs or unidiffs are
        > fully equivalent, and moreover, there are tools converting between
        > both, which maintainers should silently use for themselves. (I think I
        > even have one somewhere in my distributions, contributed long ago by an
        > employee from Borland. There are others floating around, as well.)

        I think the main reason for preferring context diffs is that some
        versions of patch cannot deal with the unified format. Perhaps I should
        have stressed that this is a preference, not a requirement: most
        readers of this list can deal with either type, but context diffs are
        more convenient for a minority.

        > Times have changed. Not so long ago, I would have written a very simple
        > message directly to the maintainer that a "not" word was missing,
        > quoting the document and the sentence, and this would have fully
        > sufficient, and plain welcome. In this case, I ought to make the effort
        > of prematurely subscribing to the `vim-dev' mailing list (working my
        > way around a slightly broken robot, but this is another matter), and
        > producing a diff for this tiny nit, well aware that a diff is likely
        > overkill: a simple and quick Vim session is probably much more efficient
        > than `patch' in this case. You scrutinise diffs anyway, don't you! :-)
        > I spent nearly an hour for a single word, and you're still not happy?

        A bug in the documentation can be reported to bugs@... (which
        goes to Bram Moolenaar) just like any other bug. This address does not
        require any subscription. I just appended a note to this effect to my
        tip at http://www.vim.org/tips/tip.php?tip_id=618 .

        I agree that, in this case, a patch is overkill. In my experience,
        Bram is more than happy to accept informal notes about such corrections.

        :help bugs
        :help design-documented

        > On the other hand, it could have been much worse, and you might have
        > thrown bug trackers at me :-). Who knows, I may adapt to these blatant
        > failures of UI-design, but for now, I just refuse to contribute when
        > maintainers want me to spend hours studying concepts and fighting bugs
        > of their new Web toys, each maintainer his own, for acquiring the right
        > of submitting a report. I wish Vim never goes there! For the packages
        > I maintained or maintain, I warmly receive reports and suggestions as
        > worth contributions, and value the time of the submitters too, not only
        > mine. I'm reasonable, and they are. One of these days, I'll write a
        > Web page for moaning all my soul about the current trends :-).

        I think we all try to be reasonable. I am sorry for the waste of
        time, especially since I am probably partly responsible. At least, I
        expect it to be a one-time cost.

        --Benji Fisher
      • Keith Roberts
        ... Please don t consider this thread to be a waste of bandwidth ... I, for one, learned a lot. But for those of us who aren t up to speed on all the various
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 5, 2004
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          >-----Original Message-----
          >From: Benji Fisher [mailto:benji@...]
          >Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 5:37 AM
          >To: Forum of Vim developers
          >Subject: Re: Small nit in the manual
          >
          >> > I agree with the content of your change. As for format, I prefer to
          >> > use the same one as the official patches: context-style diffs (diff
          >> > -c) generated from the top-level distribution directory. Something
          >> > like this for a single file:
          >
          >I think the main reason for preferring context diffs is that some
          >versions of patch cannot deal with the unified format. Perhaps I should
          >have stressed that this is a preference, not a requirement: most
          >readers of this list can deal with either type, but context diffs are
          >more convenient for a minority.
          >
          >A bug in the documentation can be reported to bugs@... (which
          >goes to Bram Moolenaar) just like any other bug. This address does not
          >require any subscription. I just appended a note to this effect to my
          >tip at http://www.vim.org/tips/tip.php?tip_id=618 .
          >
          > I agree that, in this case, a patch is overkill. In my experience,
          >Bram is more than happy to accept informal notes about such corrections.
          >
          >:help bugs
          >:help design-documented
          >
          >I think we all try to be reasonable. I am sorry for the waste of
          >time, especially since I am probably partly responsible. At least, I
          >expect it to be a one-time cost.

          Please don't consider this thread to be a waste of bandwidth ... I, for one,
          learned a lot. But for those of us who aren't up to speed on all the
          various diff formats, here are some useful links:
          http://borg.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/cgi-bin/info2www?(diff)Index
          http://borg.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/cgi-bin/info2www?(diff)Context

          I also finally found [the Google links are too old]:
          http://www.gnu.org/software/diffutils/manual/html_mono/diff.html#toc_Top

          [search for Context and/or Unified and follow link]
        • François Pinard
          [François Pinard] ... [Benji Fisher] ... [François Pinard] ... [Benji Fisher] ... We are both sorry. I should have seen the ambiguity of my saying while
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 8, 2004
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            [François Pinard]
            > Hi, people. Would you check if the following diff is appropriate?
            > [...]

            [Benji Fisher]
            > I agree with the content of your change. As for format, I prefer
            > [...] context-style diffs [...]

            [François Pinard]
            > This is annoying... Some maintainers like context diffs and hate
            > unidiffs, other maintainers just want the contrary. [...]

            [Benji Fisher]
            > I am sorry. I interpreted the first line quoted above as asking for
            > advice on the format as well as the content of the diff.

            We are both sorry. I should have seen the ambiguity of my saying while
            writing it.

            > I think we all try to be reasonable. I am sorry for the waste of
            > time, especially since I am probably partly responsible. At least, I
            > expect it to be a one-time cost.

            The cost for me is staying on vim-dev, while it is a bit prematurate in
            my case. But the volume is not high, and the exchanges are interesting,
            so I guess I'll just stick around, yet silently for a while. :-)

            Keep happy, everybody.

            --
            François Pinard http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard
          • Nazri Ramliy
            On Thu, Jan 08, 2004 at 12:58:40PM -0500, François Pinard wrote: [Benji Fisher] ... [François Pinard] ... I just love happy ending, :) Nazri.
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 8, 2004
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              On Thu, Jan 08, 2004 at 12:58:40PM -0500, François Pinard wrote:
              [Benji Fisher]
              > > I am sorry. I interpreted the first line quoted above as asking for
              > > advice on the format as well as the content of the diff.
              >
              [François Pinard]
              > We are both sorry. I should have seen the ambiguity of my saying while
              > writing it.
              >
              > > I think we all try to be reasonable. I am sorry for the waste of
              > > time, especially since I am probably partly responsible. At least, I
              > > expect it to be a one-time cost.
              >
              > The cost for me is staying on vim-dev, while it is a bit prematurate in
              > my case. But the volume is not high, and the exchanges are interesting,
              > so I guess I'll just stick around, yet silently for a while. :-)
              >
              > Keep happy, everybody.

              I just love happy ending, :)

              Nazri.
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