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Re: vim.org reviewed and classified

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  • Ricardo SIGNES
    ... How about a Feature List and two Crash Courses? Beginner and Intermediate. The first feature list will be things like, Why can t I type? It keeps
    Message 1 of 36 , Apr 1, 2002
      On Mon, Apr 01, 2002 at 05:58:44PM +0100, Thomas Hurst wrote:
      > * Ricardo SIGNES (samael-vim@...) wrote:
      > > Working from this, I hope we can develop a proposed site tree for
      > > vimonline and begin work on fleshing it out.
      > > * answ.html - not quite a FAQ, not quite a brief guide
      > >
      > > Something like this could be useful on the new site: a
      > > feature-oriented FAQ. I don't think we have one, really.
      > Yes; ultra-to-the-point docs are important to new users, and even long
      > time users who never progressed far into the more advanced stuff.
      > A terse quickstart explaining the basics of modal editing and the basic
      > commands (a, A, i, I, [n]d[x], search and replace, :w and :q) will
      > probably go a long way to helping new users get used to vim; after that
      > a FAQ like that will be very useful.

      How about a Feature List and two Crash Courses? Beginner and Intermediate.

      The first feature list will be things like, "Why can't I type? It keeps
      beeping! WTF IS GOING ON?!"

      Intermediate can deal with things like buffers and registered very briefly.

      (The Expert Crash Course is, presumably, the user's manual. I suppose
      something more concise might be possible.)

      > > * binaries.html - links to mirrors for binary distributions
      > >
      > > A page like this probably belongs under 'mirroring info' on
      > > the downloads page.
      > I'd say the mirrors would be best integrated into the download page,
      > either with multiple links, a server side script redirecting (maybe
      > based on a previously set preference), or something similar.

      That would be sweet for the user side. ("Pick your mirror" on the prefs page.)

      > > As has been mentioned, the downloads page is a little
      > > overwhelming.
      > It's conveying a lot of information; what the files are, the current
      > name, the naming convention, and a description. A lot of that could be
      > removed (naming conventions are explained on the ftp anyway) and
      > regorganised. A table would probably be a suitable way to organise it.

      Yeah, I think we both want that. :)

      > This is where nested tables might actually be used in a GOOD way.. :)

      Shudder! Maybe! :)

      > > * chat.html - links to vim IRC channels
      > > This is a good idea, and can probably go under 'support' as
      > > one or two lines of 'where to find good vim irc channels'
      > Agreed. I don't think a web IRC client's needed; it's just cruft.

      Yes. Web IRC clients almost always stink. We can just say, "These should be
      accessible by any IRC client, including web based clients." ...and leave it up
      to the user to find a client he likes.

      > > * dist.html - a list of vim distribution mirrors
      > My eyes go funny on that page. Again, I'm sure it can be integrated
      > into the download page, with the (mostly) pointless details linked on
      > subpages if the user really cares about contact information etc.

      Yeah. Again, hide the details unless needed.

      > > * docs.html * doc/ * howto/ - an overview of vim documentation
      > > Most of this is already covered by vimonline's documentation
      > > pages (vimdoc.sf.net), but that page needs to be brought in
      > > line with the look of vimonline. Also, more 'official' HOWTO
      > > like documentation should be listed -- things that are longer
      > > than tips.
      > A documentation links page will probably be useful, but I want to
      > emphesise the importance of some friendly documentation on the main
      > site; stuff you wouldn't be afraid of pointing a total Vim newbie to.
      > Long lists of John Doe's vim howto pages on GeoCities or whatever
      > doesn't fit into that category :)

      Agreed. Crash courses. The User's Guide is nice, but a little hard on the
      brain. Even some beautification when it's translated to html will help,
      especially if its look can be matched (with CSS) to that of the rest of

      > > * features.??.html - a brief description of vim in 6kB
      > > The brief description in 6k is a nice running project, and
      > > should be maintained as part of vimdoc, probably.
      > An About Vim page, linked to from the front page with a 3-4 line
      > description of Vim perhaps.
      > A features list similar but more complete than the whyvim page on
      > vim.sf would probably go well in there; I'd prefer we concentrate on
      > demonstrating why vim is a good editor than "Why you should use vim, cos
      > we're rabid zealots!!!!11111" which is what most people read into any
      > "advocacy" pages :)



      > > * hist.html - release dates of vim
      > >
      > > This 'brief history of vim' is nice, and should be expanded, I
      > > think, into more of a narrative history. Bram can write this
      > > in his copious spare time. :)
      > Yes, preferably without Sven's evil date format :)

      ISO8601 dates are good, but not in that compressed form. Today is 2002-04-01.

      > > I'm not sure where we'd put this. Possibly in an extended
      > > 'about vim' page that expands on the little "What is Vim?"
      > > blurb on the front page.
      > <looks up a few lines>
      > Stop looking over my shoulder! ;)

      My bad. (And everyone said that phrase was dead.)

      > > * index.html - huge file; news; FAQ;
      > It's the classic Too Big For It's Own Good page. The answer to the
      > meaning of life could be on there and you'd never find it.

      And it is!

      > > * lang.html - a list of syntax files and their maintainers/etc
      > > This page, too, is way out of date. This is rendered obsolete
      > > by the scripts archive.
      > The scripts archive includes all the syntax files?

      If it doesn't (it doesn't), it should. It'd be neat-o if vim runtime
      distributions could be, at least in part, compiled from the script archive, so
      that they were guaranteed to be up-to-date.

      IE, put that burden on the maintainer, and let Bram/etc just stamp certain
      scripts as "part of canon."

      > A list of data like that ripped out of the latest distributions would
      > probably fit well somewhere, maybe under support ("Q: Where do I report a
      > bug in highlighting <something>? A: Contact the
      > [maintainer|link-to-list-of-bundled-syntax-files]").

      Yeah. In the FAQ.

      > > * macs.html - news for vim for macintosh
      > There's a lot of information on that page that won't fit in a news page.
      > It can always be linked to from the main site anyway; who cares if we
      > don't provide copious details about how the Mac stuff is progressing or
      > how it's configured by default? If that info is included, it needs to
      > be for all platforms.

      Yup, that's absolutely right.

      > > * mail.html - vim mailing lists
      > > This is covered by the 'support' page, although 'support' does
      > > not list some of the more obscure lists. Maybe we should have
      > > a 'more lists' link to find the non-English language lists,
      > > etc.
      > A seperate lists page with a way of subscribing easily won't go amiss.

      Yeah, I think that the current support page has a decent amount of mailing list
      info. A second page with more is needed, though. (Other lists, how to
      subscribe, etc.)

      > http://www.php.net/mailing-lists.php is a nice example; linked to from
      > the "Getting Help" page.

      Oh, that is good! Should be linked from Support, imho.

      > > * orga.html - information about the domain vim.org; maintainer, email
      > > addies, etc
      > > Redundant, especially if vim.org will point to vimonline.

      Yes, and vim.sf does. We just don't need to say how all the email addresses
      map, etc.

      > A site should always give some info on who owns and maintains it,
      > whether vim.org points to vim.sf or becomes a site in it's own right.

      > Personally I'd prefer it become a site in it's own right, if only
      > because vim online is more concentrating on the script/tips database and
      > vim.org more on the basics of how to get vim, how to use it, where to
      > get support and more information. Keeping the third party script/tips
      > stuff on a seperate page will help keep the main site uncluttered and
      > less intimidating.

      Well, remember when CPAN wasn't insane? vimonline could be more like that. It
      could be a comprehensive reference and resource for vim -- you hit it and it
      presents itself as a resource on docs and downloads, but one step in is the
      scripts/tips archive, etc. Unifying the site but maintaining an uncluttered
      appearance can help create a greater feeling of community, imho.

      I agree, though, that we can't let newbies drop into "NEW: VIMIDE 4.0" etc.

      > > * pics.html * pics/ - banners, buttons, and screenshots
      > > Banners and buttons should go under our 'About Vim' page, or
      > > under an 'Advocacy' or 'Community' section. (Community could
      > > also contain the IRC info.)
      > Sounds reasonable. That will aid crosslinking from support without
      > pushing stand-alone but potentially small snippets of information
      > outside the main document hierachy.

      Bram suggested this stay on Sven's page. I still think it might be better on
      vimonline, but either way!

      > > * quotes.html - quotes about vi and vim
      > > This is an amusing page, and belongs under 'Advocacy,'
      > > 'Community,' or 'About Vim.' Maybe we should create a quotes
      > > list, like tips and scripts, so that excellent / amusing
      > > quotes can rise to the top.
      > Again, sounds like a third party site thing; I do see potential for
      > having a random quote picked like a tagline for each page, as a link to
      > a list of them.

      Yeah, this can easily be dropped from vimonline. (Well, not included.)

      > > * search.html - search engine interface
      > > We have this already; if we need a more extensive one, we can
      > > link to google with site:vim.sf.net
      > Text gadget in bottom left or top right. :)


      > > * setup.html - Sven's minimal vimrc
      > > This can be a single tip, or several. It doesn't need its own
      > > page on vimonline.
      > Basics on customising vim would fit well under the beginner documents
      > hierachy.


      > > * tree.html - a site map
      > >
      > > This page is incredibly out of date. We don't really need
      > > it, but once we decide how to lay out vimonline's expanded
      > > content, we'll have one anyway.
      > Pfft, site maps are a crutch to poor navigation structures ;)

      Heh. Well, they're also a guide to building new content. We don't want them
      to be used as a map, but as a blueprint.

      > > * users.html - links to pages of other vim users
      > > This is covered by user info. Users can list their own links
      > > to their pages there.
      > Community -> User Sites

      This is already covered, anyway. Great sites can be linked.

      > > * press/ - vim in the press and in reviews
      > > This kind of content should be better organized, and on the
      > > vim 'Advocacy' page, or as news items. Or both!
      > Now now, let's not turn into Amiga users and wet ourselves whenever our
      > favourite editor gets mentioned somewhere ;)

      Yeah, I don't care too much about this -- but presumably someone does.

      I'll address the map after lunch!

    • Coen Engelbarts
      ... One thing I could not find there: What does the acronym (?) A-A-P mean? It might be Any Acronym Perceivable , An A-A-P Project , or something similar,
      Message 36 of 36 , Apr 4, 2002
        > It's all explained on the web site: http://a-a-p.org
        > If you still don't get it, I will have to update the web pages...

        One thing I could not find there: What does the acronym (?) "A-A-P" mean?
        It might be "Any Acronym Perceivable", "An A-A-P Project", or something
        similar, like TTP="The TTP Project" from the Dilbert comic, but I'd still
        like to know. ;-)
        Google only brings tons of other AAPs.

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