Ricardo Signes wrote:
> I've gone through Sven's entire html tree, and am making a list of all
> the files, and to what extent they are or are not represented in
> Working from this, I hope we can develop a proposed site tree for
> vimonline and begin work on fleshing it out.
> I look forward to hearing thoughts on how we can manage this project,
> and where I might be wrong. ;)
Good plan. We might also want to leave some pages to Sven's Vim site.
At least for a start. Most important now is to get the layout right, so
that all info can be found where people would expect it.
I'll make remarks where I have something to say.
> * addicted.html
> - 101 signs you're addicted to vim.
> Personally, I think we can lose this. It's not funny. It's
> like saying that the top way to know that you're a redneck is
> that your neck is red. Ha ha.
Let's leave this on on Sven's site.
> * answ.html
> - not quite a FAQ, not quite a brief guide
> Something like this could be useful on the new site: a
> feature-oriented FAQ. I don't think we have one, really.
> This is something that should be integrated with the :help
> files and manual. It could be a FAQ with very simple answers
> and extensive linking into the manual.
> I don't think we have this, yet.
The remarks here are useful, but not organized. These should either be
added as a tip to vim-online or to the FAQ. Otherwise nobody can find
> * binaries.html
> - links to mirrors for binary distributions
> A page like this probably belongs under 'mirroring info' on
> the downloads page. As has been mentioned, the downloads page
> is a little overwhelming. (Also, why is there a
> weirdly-placed link in the left sidebar to a stats site in
> ?Swedish??) I know we have a list of mirrors on the 'why use
> vim' page, but it's not very user-friendly.
Most of this info is outdated (Vim 5.3 is _old_). The page is setup in
the wrong way, takes too much time to maintain. The most useful links
should be added to the existing download page on vim.sf.net (some
are already there).
> * chall.html
> - apparently once intended to be a 'challenges' page
> This page seems entirely redundant. If nothing else, 'tips'
> replaces it. It might be interesting or amusing to /actually/
> run contests to best solve a given problem, though. That kind
> of functionality seems best to leave for a second version of
Since there is only one item, this page can be removed.
> * chat.html
> - links to vim IRC channels
> This is a good idea, and can probably go under 'support' as
> one or two lines of 'where to find good vim irc channels'
Yep. Maintaining the list of IRC servers seems a bad idea, can't we link
to a list available somewhere?
> * deve.html
> - vim development goals and 'mission'
> This is actually a really good page, though somewhat hard to
> follow. Things like this should be listed in the SourceForge
> project page, possibly as project documentation. It would be
> nice to get an idea of what vim is supposed to be and not be,
> in detail; also, it'd be nice to see where it is going.
Problem with this page is that it's about Svens point of view. Not mine
or Vim developers in general. The main Vim goals are in the on-line
help: ":help development". Don't make it confusing by making a web
page as well.
What is useful from here is a list of different Vim add-ons and who is
working on what. Here called "projects". Problem is that most of
this info is outdated.
> * dist.html
> - a list of vim distribution mirrors
> If we continue to use ftp.XX.vim.org, this is almost
> redundant, but a specific list isn't a bad idea, especially if
> it can be updated by the mirror maintainers as to speed,
> uptime, update frequency, etc.
> Sven's page is -really- long and detailed, but most of the
> detail could easily be displayed only when requested, to make
> the list easier to see at a glance.
The file ftp://ftp.vim.org/pub/vim/MIRRORS contains the info most people
need. The detailed info in Sven's page quickly gets outdated (probably
already is, who would check this?). Anyway, the home ftp server is
quite fast (1 Gbit link to the european backbone). Only during a week
when Red Hat has a new release it's a bit crowded.
> * docs.html
> * doc/
> * howto/
> - an overview of vim documentation
> Most of this is already covered by vimonline's documentation pages
> (vimdoc.sf.net), but that page needs to be brought in line
> with the look of vimonline. Also, more 'official' HOWTO like
> documentation should be listed -- things that are longer than
I don't see a problem with adding "howto" items to the vim-online tips.
At least you would be able to find them. Making a separate list for
"howto" items would make it difficult to decide where to find which
> * download.html
> - where and how to download vim
> This is already covered.
> * features.??.html
> - a brief description of vim in 6kB
> The brief description in 6k is a nice running project, and should be
> maintained as part of vimdoc, probably.
Can't find a list of these... It's mentioned on the main page but
without a link.
> * hist.html
> - release dates of vim
> This 'brief history of vim' is nice, and should be expanded, I
> think, into more of a narrative history. Bram can write this
> in his copious spare time. :)
> I'm not sure where we'd put this. Possibly in an extended
> 'about vim' page that expands on the little "What is Vim?"
> blurb on the front page.
It's nice background info. Note that the 6.1 releases are missing.
> * index.html
> - huge file; news; FAQ;
> This page is wildly out of date, in many ways. "Read about
> some new features of vim-5.4!" The news is already
> incorporated into vimonline. Again, though, we need a FAQ on
> vimonline, probably linked from the main page, possibly linked
> from 'about vim' and/or 'support'.
Yes, this is a mess.
> * lang.html
> - a list of syntax files and their maintainers/etc
> This page, too, is way out of date. This is rendered obsolete
> by the scripts archive.
One thing that's still missing is a way for syntax/indent/plugin file
manintainers to distribute new versions. This should allow a user to
get the latest version of a specific file (or all files), and taking the
risc that something is broken. I can then include the updated file in a
new version (after checking that it doesn't look broken).
> * macs.html
> - news for vim for macintosh
> News alone should mostly cover this. Adding a 'type' field to
> news items and letting users filter on that should entirely
> cover this.
This looks like it's outdated. The vim-mac maillist is more useful in
many ways. A (maintained!) Mac specific page can be found elsewhere.
It's probably better to make a list of useful links, organised by
subject and OS.
> * mail.html
> - vim mailing lists
> This is covered by the 'support' page, although 'support' does
> not list some of the more obscure lists. Maybe we should have
> a 'more lists' link to find the non-English language lists,
Sven's page contains much useful information. I think it's useful to
include most of this.
> * mirrors.html
> - another list of mirrors
> I've covered this topic already.
The www mirrors are new though.
> * news.html
> * announce/
> - vim news
> This is covered already by vimonline's news feature.
Although links to the announcements in the maillists could be useful.
> * newsgroup.html
> - info on USENET posting for vim
> The reference to comp.editors is relatively redundant,
> although also harmless if we want to include that on the
> support page. Better, though, is the list of things to
> mention when asking for help. (Version, OS, etc.) That
> should be included/linked somewhere on the support page.
Useful. Although the hints to search the news archive should be put
> * options60ae.txt
> - a list of settable options
> The user's manual covers this.
> * orga.html
> - information about the domain vim.org; maintainer, email addies, etc
> Redundant, especially if vim.org will point to vimonline.
The info about mail aliases quickly gets outdated. And too easy for
spammers to find.
> * pics.html
> * pics/
> - banners, buttons, and screenshots
> Screenshots are already covered by the Why Use Vim? page.
> Banners and buttons should go under our 'About Vim' page, or
> under an 'Advocacy' or 'Community' section. (Community could
> also contain the IRC info.)
Could just keep the link to Sven's page, it's quite nice.
> * prayer.html
> - Pater Noster for Vim
> I don't know; we could include this somewhere. It strikes
> me, like the 101 addiction signs, as not being particularly
> useful or funny. Maybe under 'Community' or 'Advocacy'.
Vim isn't a religion, I don't like it, better get rid of this.
> * quotes.html
> - quotes about vi and vim
> This is an amusing page, and belongs under 'Advocacy,'
> 'Community,' or 'About Vim.' Maybe we should create a quotes
> list, like tips and scripts, so that excellent / amusing
> quotes can rise to the top.
Or just link to Sven's page.
> * search.html
> - search engine interface
> We have this already; if we need a more extensive one, we can
> link to google with site:vim.sf.net
> * setup.html
> - Sven's minimal vimrc
> This can be a single tip, or several. It doesn't need its own
> page on vimonline.
> * tree.html
> - a site map
> This page is incredibly out of date. We don't really need it,
> but once we decide how to lay out vimonline's expanded
> content, we'll have one anyway.
It's good to have an overview of all pages.
> * users.html
> - links to pages of other vim users
> This is covered by user info. Users can list their own links
> to their pages there.
What do you mean with "user info"? The current page is too bulky and
quickly gets outdated.
> * why.html
> - why use vim?
> We already have this on vimonline.
Sven's page contains much more stuff. The question is if there are more
then a few people who would want to read this.
> * y2k.html
> - is vim y2k safe?
> This is no longer an issue, save for time travellers.
> * faq/
> - a FAQ
> Well, we need to have one current and online. We don't seem to.
We need a maintainer for the FAQ!
> * iccf/
> - info about the ICCF and how/why to give
> vimonline already has this, and it's a link from every page!
> * macros/
> - reserved for a macros archive; actually blank
> vimonline actually implements this as the scripts archive
> * press/
> - vim in the press and in reviews
> This kind of content should be better organized, and on the vim
> 'Advocacy' page, or as news items. Or both!
> * refguide
> - the vim user's guide
> We already have this on vimonline.
It seems your list is not complete. A few things I missed:
hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict:
36. You miss more than five meals a week downloading the latest games from
/// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@...
/// Creator of Vim -- http://vim.sf.net
-- ftp://ftp.vim.org/pub/vim \\\
\\\ Project leader for A-A-P -- http://www.a-a-p.org
\\\ Help me helping AIDS orphans in Uganda - http://iccf-holland.org