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distribution getting too big

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  • Bram Moolenaar
    The source archive is now over 1.4 Mbyte. It no longer fits on a standard floppy disk. What to do about this? 1. Ignore it. People can split the archive and
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 8, 2000
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      The source archive is now over 1.4 Mbyte. It no longer fits on a standard
      floppy disk. What to do about this?

      1. Ignore it. People can split the archive and use two floppies.
      2. Use bzip2 instead of gzip. The size will go from 1480 Kbyte to 1180 Kbyte.
      3. Leave out ctags. Saves about 150 Kbyte.

      Each has its advantages and disadvantages:

      1. A bit more work to split the archive and concatenate later.
      You needed another floppy anyway, for the runtime archive.

      2. Not everybody has bzip2. The gzip files will also need to be available,
      which doubles the number of archives people have to choose from.
      People without bzip2 still can't fit the archive on a floppy. I would
      expect that people using floppies have a higher chance not being able to
      use bzip2.

      3. Ctags has always been Vim's friend.
      Ctags has grown quite big, about 10% of the source archive. It deserves to
      be distributed by itself now. On Linux it already is.
      Some people won't get the hint to use ctags.

      Opinions?

      --
      hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict:
      206. You religiously respond immediately to e-mail, while ignoring
      your growing pile of snail mail.

      /// Bram Moolenaar Bram@... http://www.moolenaar.net \\\
      \\\ Vim: http://www.vim.org ICCF Holland: http://iccf-holland.org ///
    • Bernhard Rosenkraenzer
      ... That wouldn t be too bad... I don t think many people use floppies these days... However... ... Is there any OS bzip2 doesn t compile/work on? If no, I
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 8, 2000
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        On Sun, 8 Oct 2000, Bram Moolenaar wrote:

        > 1. Ignore it. People can split the archive and use two floppies.

        That wouldn't be too bad... I don't think many people use floppies these
        days... However...

        > 2. Use bzip2 instead of gzip. The size will go from 1480 Kbyte to 1180 Kbyte.

        Is there any OS bzip2 doesn't compile/work on? If no, I don't think it's
        much of a problem as long as a link to bzip2 and instructions for
        compiling/installing it are provided.

        > 3. Leave out ctags. Saves about 150 Kbyte.

        I actually like this one... On Linux, it avoids duplicated code (most
        linux distributions already include ctags as a separate package), on *BSD,
        a requirement in the ports Makefile would suffice.

        Also, not everyone who uses vim needs ctags (on boxes where you use vim
        only for editing config files), so keeping it separate would save some
        space.

        LLaP
        bero
      • Ron Aaron
        ... Hi, Bram - I suggest that we not distribute ctags with vim, but make it readily apparent where to get it, e.g. ctags.tar.gz. However, I don t see that it
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 8, 2000
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          Bram Moolenaar <Bram@...> writes:
          >The source archive is now over 1.4 Mbyte. It no longer fits on a standard
          >floppy disk. What to do about this?

          Hi, Bram -

          I suggest that we not distribute ctags with vim, but make it readily apparent
          where to get it, e.g. ctags.tar.gz.

          However, I don't see that it is important to put the distribution on a single
          floppy. For those situation where one needs a 'rescue disk', one does not
          need the distribution -- just the vim binary (and UPX can really squash it
          down!). Most people just download vim onto a hard disk, so I really don't
          think the floppy size is an issue.

          Just my 2c.

          Ron
        • Zdenek Sekera
          ... Probably. But is this an issue at all? Don t people who need ot move from machine to machine move only binaries + runtime? (this should still fit on a
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 8, 2000
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            Bram Moolenaar wrote:
            >
            > The source archive is now over 1.4 Mbyte. It no longer fits on a standard
            > floppy disk. What to do about this?
            >
            > 1. Ignore it. People can split the archive and use two floppies.

            Probably. But is this an issue at all? Don't people who need ot move
            from
            machine to machine move only binaries + runtime? (this should still fit
            on
            a floppy I think). And how much are floppies really used (compared to
            other
            ways like zip drives, etc...).

            Obviosuly those who need to move between machines with different
            asrchitectures
            and consequently need to move sources cannot reason this way, but they
            have
            surely devised their own way of working already.

            I am not really sure if this a problem.

            > 2. Use bzip2 instead of gzip. The size will go from 1480 Kbyte to 1180 Kbyte.

            Yes, but gzip so much more spread out/used/known. I'd stay with gzip for
            the distribution.

            > 3. Leave out ctags. Saves about 150 Kbyte.

            Why not? It's really a product (now) on its own, not everybody really
            needs it
            (for many reasons) and those who do need just an URL on many places in
            the doc
            and they can get it from there.

            I think this is not a bad idea, on the other hand it doesn't save all
            that much
            and vim will catch up with saved space eventually anyway IMHO, so this
            is merely
            pushing the problem in the future.

            However, I think this idea of separating ctags from vim has lots of
            merit on
            its own.

            ---Zdenek
          • Walter Briscoe
            In article of Mon, 9 Oct 2000 18:05:56 in !vim-dev, Robert Webb writes ... Apart
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 9, 2000
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              In article <NCBBIEOJGJKIFOEDOODLEEHIDFAA.RobertW@...> of Mon,
              9 Oct 2000 18:05:56 in !vim-dev, Robert Webb <RobertW@...>
              writes
              >> 1. Ignore it. People can split the archive and use two floppies.
              >
              >I seem to be the only person who still uses floppies! I download it at work
              Apart from me. :)
              [snip]
              >Why not put ctags, and maybe xxd etc in their own archive, which can be
              >found along side the vim archives. Or better still, put them in the extra
              >archive, since they are indeed extras. And the extra archive should still
              I prefer the extra archive notion!
              --
              Walter Briscoe
            • Robert Webb
              ... I seem to be the only person who still uses floppies! I download it at work and compile it, but also then take it home on floppies. It does only affect
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 9, 2000
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                > 1. Ignore it. People can split the archive and use two floppies.

                I seem to be the only person who still uses floppies! I download it at work
                and compile it, but also then take it home on floppies. It does only affect
                people who need the source though.

                > 2. Use bzip2 instead of gzip. The size will go from 1480 Kbyte
                > to 1180 Kbyte.

                I'd suggest not using something non-standard, even if people can download it
                for free and so on. It's just one more hassle.

                > 3. Leave out ctags. Saves about 150 Kbyte.

                Why not put ctags, and maybe xxd etc in their own archive, which can be
                found along side the vim archives. Or better still, put them in the extra
                archive, since they are indeed extras. And the extra archive should still
                fit on a floppy after doing this.

                I wouldn't like to see ctags stray too far from vim though. As long as it
                is available right next to the vim archive it should be OK.

                Rob.
              • Matt Dunford
                ... One vote for leaving ctags out of the distribution.
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 9, 2000
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                  On Sun, 8 Oct 2000, Bram Moolenaar wrote:

                  >
                  >The source archive is now over 1.4 Mbyte. It no longer fits on a standard
                  >floppy disk. What to do about this?
                  >
                  >1. Ignore it. People can split the archive and use two floppies.
                  >2. Use bzip2 instead of gzip. The size will go from 1480 Kbyte to 1180 Kbyte.
                  >3. Leave out ctags. Saves about 150 Kbyte.

                  One vote for leaving ctags out of the distribution.
                • Thomas Capricelli
                  Anyway, I m for using bzip2. Why not leaving ctags also. I vote for both
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 9, 2000
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                    Anyway, I'm for using bzip2.
                    Why not leaving ctags also.

                    I vote for both

                    >>1. Ignore it. People can split the archive and use two floppies.
                    >>2. Use bzip2 instead of gzip. The size will go from 1480 Kbyte to 1180 Kbyte.
                    >>3. Leave out ctags. Saves about 150 Kbyte.
                    >
                    >One vote for leaving ctags out of the distribution.
                  • Alexey Marinichev
                    ... Why can t we, following ftp.kernel.org, have both .gz and .bz2 available? As for leaving out ctags, ctags will be available from ftp.vim.org anyway, right?
                    Message 9 of 11 , Oct 9, 2000
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                      On Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 07:59:05PM +0200, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
                      >
                      > The source archive is now over 1.4 Mbyte. It no longer fits on a standard
                      > floppy disk. What to do about this?
                      >
                      > 1. Ignore it. People can split the archive and use two floppies.
                      > 2. Use bzip2 instead of gzip. The size will go from 1480 Kbyte to 1180 Kbyte.
                      > 3. Leave out ctags. Saves about 150 Kbyte.

                      Why can't we, following ftp.kernel.org, have both .gz and .bz2
                      available?

                      As for leaving out ctags, ctags will be available from ftp.vim.org
                      anyway, right? Will it be put in the same directory as vim? That's
                      what I would vote for.

                      --Lyosha
                    • Arnaud S . Launay
                      ... Because it s not the same level of expertise that is required. Only advanced users get and compile their own kernels -- but everybody needs an editor. So,
                      Message 10 of 11 , Oct 10, 2000
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                        Le Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 11:48:11AM -0700, Alexey Marinichev a écrit:
                        > Why can't we, following ftp.kernel.org, have both .gz and .bz2
                        > available?

                        Because it's not the same level of expertise that is required.
                        Only advanced users get and compile their own kernels -- but
                        everybody needs an editor. So, if you put a lot of files in a
                        directory, the poor average user will be completely lost...

                        Imagine: "a ViM user buried alive under ViM archives" :)

                        Arnaud.
                        --
                        On n'est pas bien là ?
                        Paisible ?
                        A la fraîche ?
                        Décontracté du gland ?
                        Et on bandera quand on aura envie de bander...
                      • hitched97@hotpop.com
                        ... I say move ctags, and xxd for that matter, to extras. _______________________________________________ Why pay for something you could get for free? NetZero
                        Message 11 of 11 , Oct 11, 2000
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                          On Sun, 8 Oct 2000, Bram Moolenaar wrote:

                          >The source archive is now over 1.4 Mbyte. It no longer fits on a standard
                          >floppy disk. What to do about this?
                          >
                          >1. Ignore it. People can split the archive and use two floppies.
                          >2. Use bzip2 instead of gzip. The size will go from 1480 Kbyte to 1180 Kbyte.
                          >3. Leave out ctags. Saves about 150 Kbyte.

                          I say move ctags, and xxd for that matter, to extras.

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