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Re: vim under kde

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  • Thomas Capricelli
    ... I ve added another screenshot showing that kvim support italic . I m astonished : the only other environment under which vim seems to support italic
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 2, 2000
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      >are rewarded with a screenshot :-) :
      > http://aquila.rezel.enst.fr/thomas/vim/kvim-pre.png

      I've added another screenshot showing that kvim support 'italic'. I'm
      astonished : the only other environment under which vim seems to support italic
      rendering is RISC_OS.

      have a look at http://aquila.rezel.enst.fr/thomas/vim/index.html

      I'm using a lot the gtk port (gui_gtk*) and I have a question : is this
      part still maintained ? is the one in charge of this on this list ? I would be
      happy to speak with him and/or other people in charge of other gui (athena,
      motif..)

      greatings,
      Thomas
    • Bram Moolenaar
      ... The GTK port is being maintained (now and then). Marcin Dalecki does most of the work, but there are long periods I don t hear from him. Andy Kahn also
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 2, 2000
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        Thomas Capricelli wrote:

        > have a look at http://aquila.rezel.enst.fr/thomas/vim/index.html
        >
        > I'm using a lot the gtk port (gui_gtk*) and I have a question : is
        > this part still maintained ? is the one in charge of this on this list ? I
        > would be happy to speak with him and/or other people in charge of other gui
        > (athena, motif..)

        The GTK port is being maintained (now and then). Marcin Dalecki does most of
        the work, but there are long periods I don't hear from him. Andy Kahn also
        fixes problems now and then.

        There is no real maintenance for the Athena and Motif versions. I fix
        problems myself, but it's taking me a lot of time and I don't always have the
        required knowledge. The Athena menus are still broken...

        Hopefully the common code between the KDE and GTK isn't copied but kept in a
        shared place. Otherwise maintenance becomes difficult.

        --
        Why is "abbreviation" such a long word?

        /-/-- Bram Moolenaar --- Bram@... --- http://www.moolenaar.net --\-\
        \-\-- Vim: http://www.vim.org ---- ICCF Holland: http://www.vim.org/iccf --/-/
      • Thomas Köhler
        On Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 10:52:53PM +0200, ... I could jump in and fix problems in the motif version every now and then. Currently, I m using GTK GUI enabled
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 4, 2000
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          On Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 10:52:53PM +0200,
          Bram Moolenaar <Bram@...> wrote:
          >
          > There is no real maintenance for the Athena and Motif versions. I fix
          > problems myself, but it's taking me a lot of time and I don't always have the
          > required knowledge. The Athena menus are still broken...

          I could jump in and fix problems in the motif version every now and
          then. Currently, I'm using GTK GUI enabled gvim, but the only reasons
          not to use motif are these:
          - GTK is default and compiling with motif needs an additional
          command-line argument to configure ;)
          - GTK allows themeable look&feel so it fits better into my general
          look&feel - I'm using the LCARS theme for enlightenment and a similar
          one for GTK ;)

          That said - I have 2 years of motif programming experience and could
          throw in a few hours every now and then to fix problems in the motif
          version.

          OK - having a look at todo.txt left me here, looking somewhat
          astonished... there's this text:

          5 There is a small white box that appears in the upper left-hand corner of
          the root window. It appears to be a problem with the popup menu. When
          the popup menu is removed from runtime/menu.vim, the little box no longer
          appears. Stepping through the debugger, the box appears when
          gui_x11.c::gui_mch_menu_hidden() handles a popup menu.

          Well, if I remember correctly, I fixed _this_ bug months ago and the
          change had been included into vim - 5.4.14 is the patch :)
          So, todo.txt seems a bit outdated here ;)

          CU,
          Thomas

          --
          Thomas Köhler Email: jean-luc@... | LCARS - Linux
          <>< WWW: http://jeanluc-picard.de | for Computers
          IRC: jeanluc | on All Real
          PGP public key available from Homepage! | Starships
        • Bram Moolenaar
          ... Very good. I ll ask you a question when I ran into some Motif problem. I just added a toolbar for the Motif version (thanks to Gordon Prieur for most of
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 5, 2000
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            Thomas Kohler wrote:

            > I could jump in and fix problems in the motif version every now and then.

            Very good. I'll ask you a question when I ran into some Motif problem.

            I just added a toolbar for the Motif version (thanks to Gordon Prieur for most
            of the code). There is no balloon help yet, perhaps that's something you
            could add. You'll have to wait for the first 6.0 alpha release though.

            > OK - having a look at todo.txt left me here, looking somewhat
            > astonished... there's this text:
            >
            > 5 There is a small white box that appears in the upper left-hand corner of
            > the root window. It appears to be a problem with the popup menu. When
            > the popup menu is removed from runtime/menu.vim, the little box no long=
            > er appears. Stepping through the debugger, the box appears when
            > gui_x11.c::gui_mch_menu_hidden() handles a popup menu.
            >
            > Well, if I remember correctly, I fixed _this_ bug months ago and the
            > change had been included into vim - 5.4.14 is the patch :)
            > So, todo.txt seems a bit outdated here ;)

            Fixing the todo list is part of the work! :-)

            --
            LARGE MAN: Who's that then?
            CART DRIVER: (Grudgingly) I dunno, Must be a king.
            LARGE MAN: Why?
            CART DRIVER: He hasn't got shit all over him.
            "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" PYTHON (MONTY) PICTURES LTD

            /-/-- Bram Moolenaar --- Bram@... --- http://www.moolenaar.net --\-\
            \-\-- Vim: http://www.vim.org ---- ICCF Holland: http://www.vim.org/iccf --/-/
          • Thomas Köhler
            On Tue, Jun 06, 2000 at 09:45:51AM +0200, ... Well, there s currently lots of reasons to wait for vim-6 alpha releases anyways :) So, here s another one for me
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 6, 2000
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              On Tue, Jun 06, 2000 at 09:45:51AM +0200,
              Bram Moolenaar <Bram@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thomas Kohler wrote:
              >
              > > I could jump in and fix problems in the motif version every now and then.
              >
              > Very good. I'll ask you a question when I ran into some Motif problem.
              >
              > I just added a toolbar for the Motif version (thanks to Gordon Prieur for most
              > of the code). There is no balloon help yet, perhaps that's something you
              > could add. You'll have to wait for the first 6.0 alpha release though.

              Well, there's currently lots of reasons to wait for vim-6 alpha releases
              anyways :) So, here's another one for me ;-)

              > > OK - having a look at todo.txt left me here, looking somewhat
              > > astonished... there's this text:
              > >
              > > 5 There is a small white box that appears in the upper left-hand corner of
              > > the root window. It appears to be a problem with the popup menu. When
              > > the popup menu is removed from runtime/menu.vim, the little box no long=
              > > er appears. Stepping through the debugger, the box appears when
              > > gui_x11.c::gui_mch_menu_hidden() handles a popup menu.
              > >
              > > Well, if I remember correctly, I fixed _this_ bug months ago and the
              > > change had been included into vim - 5.4.14 is the patch :)
              > > So, todo.txt seems a bit outdated here ;)
              >
              > Fixing the todo list is part of the work! :-)

              So, OK. :)
              Here's the patch ;-)

              ----------
              --- /usr/local/share/vim/vim56/doc/todo.txt.old Tue Jun 6 10:11:20 2000
              +++ /usr/local/share/vim/vim56/doc/todo.txt Tue Jun 6 10:11:43 2000
              @@ -222,11 +222,6 @@
              8 Lesstif: When deleting a menu that's torn off, the torn off menu becomes
              very small instead of disappearing. When closing it, Vim crashes.
              (Phillipps)
              -5 There is a small white box that appears in the upper left-hand corner of
              - the root window. It appears to be a problem with the popup menu. When
              - the popup menu is removed from runtime/menu.vim, the little box no longer
              - appears. Stepping through the debugger, the box appears when
              - gui_x11.c::gui_mch_menu_hidden() handles a popup menu.


              GUI:
              ----------

              CU,
              Thomas

              --
              Thomas Köhler Email: jean-luc@... | LCARS - Linux
              <>< WWW: http://jeanluc-picard.de | for Computers
              IRC: jeanluc | on All Real
              PGP public key available from Homepage! | Starships
            • Marcin Dalecki
              ... I m still on this list yes. However I don t do much of maintainance anylonger, since: 1. The GTK port is quite mature. (No wonder you found it to be the
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 10, 2000
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                On Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 07:24:20PM +0200, Thomas Capricelli wrote:
                >
                >
                > >are rewarded with a screenshot :-) :
                > > http://aquila.rezel.enst.fr/thomas/vim/kvim-pre.png
                >
                > I've added another screenshot showing that kvim support 'italic'. I'm
                > astonished : the only other environment under which vim seems to support italic
                > rendering is RISC_OS.
                >
                > have a look at http://aquila.rezel.enst.fr/thomas/vim/index.html
                >
                > I'm using a lot the gtk port (gui_gtk*) and I have a question : is this
                > part still maintained ? is the one in charge of this on this list ? I would be
                > happy to speak with him and/or other people in charge of other gui (athena,
                > motif..)


                I'm still on this list yes. However I don't do much of "maintainance" anylonger,
                since:

                1. The GTK port is quite mature. (No wonder you found it to be the best starting point for KDE
                integration.)

                2. I have a job which needs to be done. (RTL Boersenspiel, you will see soon online.)

                3. Frankly it's more interresting to hack on a trully GUI version of VIM without
                the need to care about whatever other people are thinking about it ;-).

                4. I'm no longer working as a coder, I let others code for me :-).

                > greatings,
                > Thomas
                >
                >
              • Marcin Dalecki
                ... The Athena menus will remain broken until the end of days - trust me. Yes the hardcoding of XResources in the Motif port in esp. is violating good coding
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 10, 2000
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                  On Fri, Jun 02, 2000 at 10:56:56PM +0200, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
                  >
                  > Thomas Capricelli wrote:
                  >
                  > > have a look at http://aquila.rezel.enst.fr/thomas/vim/index.html
                  > >
                  > > I'm using a lot the gtk port (gui_gtk*) and I have a question : is
                  > > this part still maintained ? is the one in charge of this on this list ? I
                  > > would be happy to speak with him and/or other people in charge of other gui
                  > > (athena, motif..)
                  >
                  > The GTK port is being maintained (now and then). Marcin Dalecki does most of
                  > the work, but there are long periods I don't hear from him. Andy Kahn also
                  > fixes problems now and then.
                  >
                  > There is no real maintenance for the Athena and Motif versions. I fix
                  > problems myself, but it's taking me a lot of time and I don't always have the
                  > required knowledge. The Athena menus are still broken...

                  The Athena menus will remain broken until the end of days - trust me.
                  Yes the hardcoding of XResources in the Motif port in esp. is violating
                  good coding practice and showing that nobody with proper understanding
                  of those toolkit's is overlooking them - just an example.

                  Maybe the best solution really is to just kill the Athena crap at least alltogether
                  in the next release --- Bram please just do it. People with obsolete systems
                  should just stick to obsolete versions of vim (you can currently
                  for example even just get gtk+ for Solaris from sunfreeware.com!)

                  > Hopefully the common code between the KDE and GTK isn't copied but kept in a
                  > shared place. Otherwise maintenance becomes difficult.

                  The nightmare sits in gui.c ;-).

                  >
                  > --
                  > Why is "abbreviation" such a long word?
                  >
                  > /-/-- Bram Moolenaar --- Bram@... --- http://www.moolenaar.net --\-\
                  > \-\-- Vim: http://www.vim.org ---- ICCF Holland: http://www.vim.org/iccf --/-/
                • Marcin Dalecki
                  ... You will need a special widget to make tooltips work! However I could throuw the corresponding code on you if anybody cares...
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 10, 2000
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                    On Mon, Jun 05, 2000 at 10:49:26PM +0200, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
                    >
                    > Thomas Kohler wrote:
                    >
                    > > I could jump in and fix problems in the motif version every now and then.
                    >
                    > Very good. I'll ask you a question when I ran into some Motif problem.
                    >
                    > I just added a toolbar for the Motif version (thanks to Gordon Prieur for most
                    > of the code). There is no balloon help yet, perhaps that's something you
                    > could add. You'll have to wait for the first 6.0 alpha release though.

                    You will need a special widget to make tooltips work!
                    However I could throuw the corresponding code on you if anybody cares...

                    >
                    > > OK - having a look at todo.txt left me here, looking somewhat
                    > > astonished... there's this text:
                    > >
                    > > 5 There is a small white box that appears in the upper left-hand corner of
                    > > the root window. It appears to be a problem with the popup menu. When
                    > > the popup menu is removed from runtime/menu.vim, the little box no long=
                    > > er appears. Stepping through the debugger, the box appears when
                    > > gui_x11.c::gui_mch_menu_hidden() handles a popup menu.
                    > >
                    > > Well, if I remember correctly, I fixed _this_ bug months ago and the
                    > > change had been included into vim - 5.4.14 is the patch :)
                    > > So, todo.txt seems a bit outdated here ;)
                    >
                    > Fixing the todo list is part of the work! :-)
                    >
                    > --
                    > LARGE MAN: Who's that then?
                    > CART DRIVER: (Grudgingly) I dunno, Must be a king.
                    > LARGE MAN: Why?
                    > CART DRIVER: He hasn't got shit all over him.
                    > "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" PYTHON (MONTY) PICTURES LTD
                    >
                    > /-/-- Bram Moolenaar --- Bram@... --- http://www.moolenaar.net --\-\
                    > \-\-- Vim: http://www.vim.org ---- ICCF Holland: http://www.vim.org/iccf --/-/
                  • Bram Moolenaar
                    ... I really don t like it when you say trust me ! Please give useful arguments. ... Another reason why I shouldn t do much work on the Motif port. I m
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 11, 2000
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                      Marcin Dalecki wrote:

                      > > There is no real maintenance for the Athena and Motif versions. I fix
                      > > problems myself, but it's taking me a lot of time and I don't always have
                      > > the required knowledge. The Athena menus are still broken...
                      >
                      > The Athena menus will remain broken until the end of days - trust me.

                      I really don't like it when you say "trust me"! Please give useful arguments.

                      > Yes the hardcoding of XResources in the Motif port in esp. is violating
                      > good coding practice and showing that nobody with proper understanding
                      > of those toolkit's is overlooking them - just an example.

                      Another reason why I shouldn't do much work on the Motif port. I'm hoping
                      someone with proper Motif knowledge will help. Actually, some work has
                      already been done now, the layout stuff has been updated by Gordon Prieur.

                      > Maybe the best solution really is to just kill the Athena crap at least
                      > alltogether in the next release --- Bram please just do it. People with
                      > obsolete systems should just stick to obsolete versions of vim (you can
                      > currently for example even just get gtk+ for Solaris from sunfreeware.com!)

                      Well, some people just don't have GTK or Lesstif installed and would like to
                      use the GUI anyway. Most things will work, it's just the menus which have a
                      real problem.

                      > > Hopefully the common code between the KDE and GTK isn't copied but kept in
                      > > a shared place. Otherwise maintenance becomes difficult.
                      >
                      > The nightmare sits in gui.c ;-).

                      I'm hoping that people who do ports take some effort to keep common code
                      common. For the GTK port that's difficult, since all low-level X stuff has
                      been replaced with GDK stuff.

                      The interface between gui.c and the different gui_xxx.c files needs to be
                      updated. Only after implementing the different GUI ports the complete picture
                      can be overviewed. Some things need to be moved around and cleaned up.

                      [from a next message]
                      > > I just added a toolbar for the Motif version (thanks to Gordon Prieur for
                      > > most of the code). There is no balloon help yet, perhaps that's something
                      > > you could add. You'll have to wait for the first 6.0 alpha release
                      > > though.
                      >
                      > You will need a special widget to make tooltips work!
                      > However I could throuw the corresponding code on you if anybody cares...

                      Please hold your horses until the first 6.0 alpha release is ready. It saves
                      me a lot of time if I don't have to figure out how to merge different changes.

                      --
                      Never enter the boss's office unless it's absolutely necessary. Every boss
                      saves one corner of the desk for useless assignments that are doled out like
                      Halloween candy to each visitor.
                      (Scott Adams - The Dilbert principle)

                      /-/-- Bram Moolenaar --- Bram@... --- http://www.moolenaar.net --\-\
                      \-\-- Vim: http://www.vim.org ---- ICCF Holland: http://www.vim.org/iccf --/-/
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