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mlterm blocking Alt+I in vim-latex-suite

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  • zhengquan
    Dear vim users: I found that using Alt-I to insert an item does not work in mlterm. xterm is ok. I wonder some mlterm features are blocking the alt-I combo.
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 2, 2009
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      Dear vim users:
      I found that using Alt-I to insert an \item does not work in mlterm.
      xterm is ok. I wonder some mlterm features are blocking the alt-I
      combo.

      Thanks for any pointers and Happy new year.

      Zhang

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    • Tony Mechelynck
      ... Alt-I is not a standard Vim binding. You might try to see how it is ... (both with and without the exclamation mark, and while editing the file where you
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 2, 2009
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        On 02/01/09 19:50, zhengquan wrote:
        > Dear vim users:
        > I found that using Alt-I to insert an \item does not work in mlterm.
        > xterm is ok. I wonder some mlterm features are blocking the alt-I
        > combo.
        >
        > Thanks for any pointers and Happy new year.
        >
        > Zhang

        Alt-I is not a standard Vim binding. You might try to see how it is
        defined and by what:

        :verbose map <M-I>
        :verbose map! <M-I>

        (both with and without the exclamation mark, and while editing the file
        where you expected to use the Alt-I combo, not while looking at the
        help). Then you may remap the same {rhs} to a different {lhs} which Vim
        is more likely to see in all terminals, e.g. F7 which is about
        vertically above the I on a QWERTY, QWERTZ or AZERTY keyboard.

        Or you can even take advantage of the fact that mappings defined without
        "nore-" will reinterpret their {rhs} for further mappings:

        :map <F7> <M-I>
        :map! <F7> <M-I>


        (Some terminals and some window managers don't pass all key combos to
        programs running in them. Also, Alt-letter combinations are usually
        mapped to menus, and your mlterm might just have a menu starting in I.)


        Best regards,
        Tony.
        --
        Democracy is a form of government in which it is permitted to wonder
        aloud what the country could do under first-class management.
        -- Senator Soaper

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      • zhengquan
        Thanks Tony, the output of the two verbose commands shows no mappings. It is quite possible that the mlterm does not pass the alt-i combo to vim... I am
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 2, 2009
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          Thanks Tony,
          the output of the two verbose commands shows no mappings. It is quite
          possible that the mlterm does not pass the alt-i combo to vim... I am
          wondering how to make alt-i passable to vim in mlterm.

          Regards,
          Zhang


          On Jan 2, 1:26 pm, Tony Mechelynck <antoine.mechely...@...>
          wrote:
          > On 02/01/09 19:50, zhengquan wrote:
          >
          > > Dear vim users:
          > > I found that using Alt-I to insert an \item does not work in mlterm.
          > > xterm is ok. I wonder some mlterm features are blocking the alt-I
          > > combo.
          >
          > > Thanks for any pointers and Happy new year.
          >
          > > Zhang
          >
          > Alt-I is not a standard Vim binding. You might try to see how it is
          > defined and by what:
          >
          >         :verbose map <M-I>
          >         :verbose map! <M-I>
          >
          > (both with and without the exclamation mark, and while editing the file
          > where you expected to use the Alt-I combo, not while looking at the
          > help). Then you may remap the same {rhs} to a different {lhs} which Vim
          > is more likely to see in all terminals, e.g. F7 which is about
          > vertically above the I on a QWERTY, QWERTZ or AZERTY keyboard.
          >
          > Or you can even take advantage of the fact that mappings defined without
          > "nore-" will reinterpret their {rhs} for further mappings:
          >
          >         :map <F7> <M-I>
          >         :map! <F7> <M-I>
          >
          > (Some terminals and some window managers don't pass all key combos to
          > programs running in them. Also, Alt-letter combinations are usually
          > mapped to menus, and your mlterm might just have a menu starting in I.)
          >
          > Best regards,
          > Tony.
          > --
          > Democracy is a form of government in which it is permitted to wonder
          > aloud what the country could do under first-class management.
          >                 -- Senator Soaper
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        • Tony Mechelynck
          ... You did issue them with your latex file current didn t you? What are you hoping that this Alt-I should do? ... As I said, if I were you I d use a different
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 2, 2009
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            On 02/01/09 23:05, zhengquan wrote:
            > Thanks Tony,
            > the output of the two verbose commands shows no mappings.

            You did issue them with your latex file current didn't you?

            What are you hoping that this Alt-I should do?

            > It is quite
            > possible that the mlterm does not pass the alt-i combo to vim... I am
            > wondering how to make alt-i passable to vim in mlterm.

            As I said, if I were you I'd use a different key. You can even map F7
            (or anything that Vim does see) to Alt-I and from then on when you hit
            F7 Vim will interpret it as Alt-I.

            Note that Vim cannot distinguish Alt-i from é (small-e-acute), or Alt-I
            (Alt-Shift-i) from É (capital-E-acute). If you can type é (e.g. as e2 in
            pinyin), Vim will see it as synonymous to Alt-i. This also means that
            you should not map Alt-i in Insert mode if you want to be able to type
            e-acute into your text.

            >
            > Regards,
            > Zhang

            Best regards,
            Tony.
            --
            Old soldiers never die. Young ones do.

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          • zhengquan
            On Jan 2, 4:32 pm, Tony Mechelynck ... yes I did issue the commands with my latex file, and the output show no mappings. I am
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 2, 2009
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              On Jan 2, 4:32 pm, Tony Mechelynck <antoine.mechely...@...>
              wrote:
              > On 02/01/09 23:05, zhengquan wrote:
              >
              > > Thanks Tony,
              > > the output of the two verbose commands shows no mappings.
              >
              > You did issue them with your latex file current didn't you?
              >
              > What are you hoping that this Alt-I should do?

              yes I did issue the commands with my latex file, and the output show
              no mappings.
              I am hoping that in an itemize environment, when I type alt-i in the
              environment, it will automatically insert a \item

              \begin
              {itemize}
              \item (\item is inserted as the result of alt-
              i)

              \end{itemize}

              >
              > > It is quite
              > > possible that the mlterm does not pass the alt-i combo to vim... I am
              > > wondering how to make alt-i passable to vim in mlterm.
              >
              > As I said, if I were you I'd use a different key. You can even map F7
              > (or anything that Vim does see) to Alt-I and from then on when you hit
              > F7 Vim will interpret it as Alt-I.
              I know this a workaround but I would like to pass alt-i to vim in
              mlterm. what I am doing now is that I am switching to some tasks to
              xterm. but the support for multibyte characters of xterm is feeble.

              >
              > Note that Vim cannot distinguish Alt-i from é (small-e-acute), or Alt-I
              > (Alt-Shift-i) from É (capital-E-acute). If you can type é (e.g. as e2 in
              > pinyin), Vim will see it as synonymous to Alt-i. This also means that
              this is confusing me because if I type alt-i in under mlterm with my
              latex file, it will be a small-e-acute.
              but if I use xterm, it will insert a correct \item. So this makes me
              feel that the problem is with mlterm. It seems like an off topic issue
              now...

              Thank you for your help.

              Regards,
              Zhang
              > you should not map Alt-i in Insert mode if you want to be able to type
              > e-acute into your text.
              >
              >
              >
              > > Regards,
              > > Zhang
              >
              > Best regards,
              > Tony.
              > --
              > Old soldiers never die.  Young ones do.
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            • zhengquan
              On Jan 2, 4:32 pm, Tony Mechelynck ... yes I did issue the commands with my latex file, and the output show no mappings. I am
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 2, 2009
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                On Jan 2, 4:32 pm, Tony Mechelynck <antoine.mechely...@...>
                wrote:
                > On 02/01/09 23:05, zhengquan wrote:
                >
                > > Thanks Tony,
                > > the output of the two verbose commands shows no mappings.
                >
                > You did issue them with your latex file current didn't you?
                >
                > What are you hoping that this Alt-I should do?

                yes I did issue the commands with my latex file, and the output show
                no mappings.
                I am hoping that in an itemize environment, when I type alt-i in the
                environment, it will automatically insert a \item

                \begin
                {itemize}
                \item (\item is inserted as the result of alt-
                i)

                \end{itemize}

                >
                > > It is quite
                > > possible that the mlterm does not pass the alt-i combo to vim... I am
                > > wondering how to make alt-i passable to vim in mlterm.
                >
                > As I said, if I were you I'd use a different key. You can even map F7
                > (or anything that Vim does see) to Alt-I and from then on when you hit
                > F7 Vim will interpret it as Alt-I.
                I know this a workaround but I would like to pass alt-i to vim in
                mlterm. what I am doing now is that I am switching to some tasks to
                xterm. but the support for multibyte characters of xterm is feeble.

                >
                > Note that Vim cannot distinguish Alt-i from é (small-e-acute), or Alt-I
                > (Alt-Shift-i) from É (capital-E-acute). If you can type é (e.g. as e2 in
                > pinyin), Vim will see it as synonymous to Alt-i. This also means that
                this is confusing me because if I type alt-i in under mlterm with my
                latex file, it will be a small-e-acute.
                but if I use xterm, it will insert a correct \item. So this makes me
                feel that the problem is with mlterm. It seems like an off topic issue
                now...

                Thank you for your help.

                Regards,
                Zhang
                > you should not map Alt-i in Insert mode if you want to be able to type
                > e-acute into your text.
                >
                >
                >
                > > Regards,
                > > Zhang
                >
                > Best regards,
                > Tony.
                > --
                > Old soldiers never die.  Young ones do.
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              • Charles E. Campbell, Jr.
                ... I suggest that you find out what s being delivered to vim when you press Alt-i. What is being delivered is a) likely to be different between vim and gvim
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 2, 2009
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                  zhengquan wrote:
                  >
                  > On Jan 2, 4:32 pm, Tony Mechelynck <antoine.mechely...@...>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  >> On 02/01/09 23:05, zhengquan wrote:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>> Thanks Tony,
                  >>> the output of the two verbose commands shows no mappings.
                  >>>
                  >> You did issue them with your latex file current didn't you?
                  >>
                  >> What are you hoping that this Alt-I should do?
                  >>
                  >
                  > yes I did issue the commands with my latex file, and the output show
                  > no mappings.
                  > I am hoping that in an itemize environment, when I type alt-i in the
                  > environment, it will automatically insert a \item
                  >
                  > \begin
                  > {itemize}
                  > \item (\item is inserted as the result of alt-
                  > i)
                  >
                  > \end{itemize}
                  >
                  I suggest that you find out what's being delivered to vim when you press
                  Alt-i. What is being delivered is

                  a) likely to be different between vim and gvim
                  b) likely not to be what vim/gvim thinks <m-i> is

                  I constructed the following two maps by pressing ctrl-v and then alt-i
                  after typing "nmap ". They "work for me"; that's not to say that the
                  email won't mutilate it nor that your terminal interface will deliver
                  the same thing in vim's case.

                  if has("gui_running")
                  nmap é :echo "gvim's alt-i"<cr>
                  else
                  nmap i :echo "vim's alt-i"<cr>
                  endif

                  Of course, you can modify the maps' payload to suit your needs.

                  Regards,
                  Chip Campbell


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                • zhengquan
                  Hi Charles, I think we are close to the solution to the problem. On Jan 2, 7:12 pm, Charles E. Campbell, Jr. ... I copied this code snippet to my .vimrc and
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jan 11, 2009
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                    Hi Charles, I think we are close to the solution to the problem.

                    On Jan 2, 7:12 pm, "Charles E. Campbell, Jr."
                    <drc...@...> wrote:
                    > zhengquan wrote:
                    >
                    > > On Jan 2, 4:32 pm, Tony Mechelynck <antoine.mechely...@...>
                    > > wrote:
                    >
                    > >> On 02/01/09 23:05, zhengquan wrote:
                    >
                    > >>> Thanks Tony,
                    > >>> the output of the two verbose commands shows no mappings.
                    >
                    > >> You did issue them with your latex file current didn't you?
                    >
                    > >> What are you hoping that this Alt-I should do?
                    >
                    > > yes I did issue the commands with my latex file, and the output show
                    > > no mappings.
                    > > I am hoping that in  an itemize environment, when I type alt-i in the
                    > > environment, it  will automatically insert a \item
                    >
                    > > \begin
                    > > {itemize}
                    > > \item   (\item is inserted as the result of alt-
                    > > i)
                    >
                    > > \end{itemize}
                    >
                    > I suggest that you find out what's being delivered to vim when you press
                    > Alt-i.  What is being delivered is
                    >
                    >   a) likely to be different between vim and gvim
                    >   b) likely not to be what vim/gvim thinks <m-i> is
                    >
                    > I constructed the following two maps by pressing ctrl-v and then alt-i
                    > after typing "nmap ".  They "work for me"; that's not to say that the
                    > email won't mutilate it nor that your terminal interface will deliver
                    > the same thing in vim's case.
                    >
                    > if has("gui_running")
                    >  nmap é :echo "gvim's alt-i"<cr>
                    > else
                    >  nmap  i :echo "vim's alt-i"<cr>
                    > endif
                    >
                    I copied this code snippet to my .vimrc and tried in mlterm, but alt-i
                    still inserts a small e acute... in gvim alt-i inserts correctly,
                    Could you tell how can I debug the mappings?

                    Thank you very much, I am pretty headstrong and don't want to use
                    another mapping for the insertion.

                    Zhang


                    > Of course, you can modify the maps' payload to suit your needs.
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    > Chip Campbell
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                  • Tony Mechelynck
                    ... [...] ... Small e-acute is the value internally used by Vim to represent Alt-i. If, without any mappings, Ctrl-V Alt-i inserts the same é for you on both
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jan 11, 2009
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                      On 12/01/09 03:28, zhengquan wrote:
                      > Hi Charles, I think we are close to the solution to the problem.
                      >
                      > On Jan 2, 7:12 pm, "Charles E. Campbell, Jr."
                      > <drc...@...> wrote:
                      [...]
                      >> I constructed the following two maps by pressing ctrl-v and then alt-i
                      >> after typing "nmap ". They "work for me"; that's not to say that the
                      >> email won't mutilate it nor that your terminal interface will deliver
                      >> the same thing in vim's case.
                      >>
                      >> if has("gui_running")
                      >> nmap é :echo "gvim's alt-i"<cr>
                      >> else
                      >> nmap i :echo "vim's alt-i"<cr>
                      >> endif
                      >>
                      > I copied this code snippet to my .vimrc and tried in mlterm, but alt-i
                      > still inserts a small e acute... in gvim alt-i inserts correctly,
                      > Could you tell how can I debug the mappings?
                      >
                      > Thank you very much, I am pretty headstrong and don't want to use
                      > another mapping for the insertion.
                      >
                      > Zhang

                      Small e-acute is the value internally used by Vim to represent Alt-i.
                      If, without any mappings, Ctrl-V Alt-i inserts the same é for you on
                      both gvim and Console Vim, it means it is recognized correctly.

                      You could try

                      :nmap <M-i> :echo 'Alt-i'<CR>

                      If it works (in Normal mode), Vim sees alt-i correctly. However, it is
                      never able to distinguish between Alt-i and small-é-acute, which means
                      you should avoid using Alt-i for an Insert-mode {lhs} if you use
                      languages like French, Spanish or Hungarian (all of which make heavy use
                      of that letter), Chinese pinyin with tone marks, or even the English
                      language with loanwords like /risqué jokes/ or /rosé wine/.

                      I notice (by the Ctrl-V prefix trick) that on my system, Alt-i generates
                      Esc i in Console Vim in both the KDE konsole and the Linux terminal. So
                      I might use

                      :if has('gui_running')
                      : nmap <M-i> :echo "gvim's Alt-i"<CR>
                      :else
                      : nmap <Esc>i :echo "vim's Alt-i"<CR>
                      :endif
                      or even
                      :nmap <M-i> :echo "gvim's Alt-i"<CR>
                      :nmap <Esc>i :echo "vim's Alt-i"<CR>

                      for a test similar to Dr. Chip's.


                      Best regards,
                      Tony.
                      --
                      No letters of the alphabet were harmed in the creation of this message.

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