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Esperanto dictionary

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  • Cyril Slobin
    Hi all! Who maintains Esperanto spell files for Vim? File eo.utf-8.spl is completely broken! In fact it was broken long ago when I ve download Vim 7.0. Now
    Message 1 of 18 , Mar 30, 2007
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      Hi all!

      Who maintains Esperanto spell files for Vim? File eo.utf-8.spl is
      completely broken! In fact it was broken long ago when I've download
      Vim 7.0. Now I've upgrade to 7.0.219 and have checked if something
      became better. No hope -- it is the same broken file. I use Win32
      version of Vim.

      I have complied my own eo.utf-8.spl from ispell sources by Sergio
      Pokrovskij found in Debian 3.1 distribution. It understands both real
      Unicode and surrogate "Cxirkaux"-style (if you don't speak Esperanto,
      you don't need to understand this). Archive contains .spl file itself,
      two .dic files, two .aff files and short readme file (it is in
      Esperanto, not English, and named "legumin", not "readme"). You can
      download it from:

      http://www.45.free.net/~slobin/vim/eo.utf-8.zip

      Maybe it is a good idea to replace broken file with my one on Vim ftp site.

      I've newer use aap and don't know vim maintaining technology, I've
      just manually converted ispell files to myspell ones and than compiled
      them to Vim format.

      I have not checked eo.iso-8859-3.spl file, I newer use iso-8859-3.

      --
      Cyril Slobin <slobin@...> `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said,
      <http://45.free.net/~slobin> `it means just what I choose it to mean'
    • A.J.Mechelynck
      ... That file is no less broken. I m sending you the details in a private email in Esperanto. Best regards, Tony. -- Oregano, n.: The ancient Italian art of
      Message 2 of 18 , Mar 30, 2007
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        Cyril Slobin wrote:
        > Hi all!
        >
        > Who maintains Esperanto spell files for Vim? File eo.utf-8.spl is
        > completely broken! In fact it was broken long ago when I've download
        > Vim 7.0. Now I've upgrade to 7.0.219 and have checked if something
        > became better. No hope -- it is the same broken file. I use Win32
        > version of Vim.
        >
        > I have complied my own eo.utf-8.spl from ispell sources by Sergio
        > Pokrovskij found in Debian 3.1 distribution. It understands both real
        > Unicode and surrogate "Cxirkaux"-style (if you don't speak Esperanto,
        > you don't need to understand this). Archive contains .spl file itself,
        > two .dic files, two .aff files and short readme file (it is in
        > Esperanto, not English, and named "legumin", not "readme"). You can
        > download it from:
        >
        > http://www.45.free.net/~slobin/vim/eo.utf-8.zip
        >
        > Maybe it is a good idea to replace broken file with my one on Vim ftp site.
        >
        > I've newer use aap and don't know vim maintaining technology, I've
        > just manually converted ispell files to myspell ones and than compiled
        > them to Vim format.
        >
        > I have not checked eo.iso-8859-3.spl file, I newer use iso-8859-3.
        >

        That file is no less broken. I'm sending you the details in a private email in
        Esperanto.

        Best regards,
        Tony.
        --
        Oregano, n.:
        The ancient Italian art of pizza folding.
      • Hugh Sasse
        ... [...] ... It might be useful to also support C^irkau^ as well. I m not sure how often the h form is used given the exception(s?) (flughaveno...) Also
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 2, 2007
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          On Sat, 31 Mar 2007, Cyril Slobin wrote:

          > Hi all!
          [...]
          > I have complied my own eo.utf-8.spl from ispell sources by Sergio
          > Pokrovskij found in Debian 3.1 distribution. It understands both real
          > Unicode and surrogate "Cxirkaux"-style (if you don't speak Esperanto,

          It might be useful to also support C^irkau^ as well. I'm not sure
          how often the h form is used given the exception(s?) (flughaveno...)
          Also isn't your example often written "CXirkaux" because the CX is
          (effectively) one character, capitalized?

          Anyway, nice to see someone working on this stuff.

          Hugh
        • Cyril Slobin
          ... For h form you can use my plugin: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=1761 It converts misc ascii representations to unicode and vice versa.
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 2, 2007
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            On 4/2/07, Hugh Sasse <hgs@...> wrote:

            > It might be useful to also support C^irkau^ as well. I'm not sure
            > how often the h form is used given the exception(s?) (flughaveno...)

            For h form you can use my plugin:

            http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=1761

            It converts misc ascii representations to unicode and vice versa.
            Among others are supported Cxirkaux-style, Zamenhof style with h (and
            it knows about flughaveno and chashundo!), html/xml entities,
            tex/latex notation and many more... If you want to spell check text
            written with h's, you just convert it to unicode, check, and convert
            back. Plugin is table-driven, and I haven't write tables myself -- I
            borrowed them from two other open-source projects (UniRed and catdoc).
            UniRed also has tables for ^Cirka^u, C^irkau^ and C`irkau`, and plugin
            can use them, but I haven't bundled with plugin.

            > Also isn't your example often written "CXirkaux" because the CX is
            > (effectively) one character, capitalized?

            I've newer seen this form, and I believe it is ugly. And in unicode
            terms, this one character is not capitalized, but title-cased.

            --
            Cyril Slobin <slobin@...> `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said,
            <http://45.free.net/~slobin> `it means just what I choose it to mean'
          • A.J.Mechelynck
            ... Well, I suppose both uppercase and titlecase should be supported then. Cxu ne? CXU VERE NE? (Kompreneble, ĉiukaze mi preferas verajn ĉapelitajn
            Message 5 of 18 , Apr 2, 2007
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              Cyril Slobin wrote:
              > On 4/2/07, Hugh Sasse <hgs@...> wrote:
              >
              >> It might be useful to also support C^irkau^ as well. I'm not sure
              >> how often the h form is used given the exception(s?) (flughaveno...)
              >
              > For h form you can use my plugin:
              >
              > http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=1761
              >
              > It converts misc ascii representations to unicode and vice versa.
              > Among others are supported Cxirkaux-style, Zamenhof style with h (and
              > it knows about flughaveno and chashundo!), html/xml entities,
              > tex/latex notation and many more... If you want to spell check text
              > written with h's, you just convert it to unicode, check, and convert
              > back. Plugin is table-driven, and I haven't write tables myself -- I
              > borrowed them from two other open-source projects (UniRed and catdoc).
              > UniRed also has tables for ^Cirka^u, C^irkau^ and C`irkau`, and plugin
              > can use them, but I haven't bundled with plugin.
              >
              >> Also isn't your example often written "CXirkaux" because the CX is
              >> (effectively) one character, capitalized?
              >
              > I've newer seen this form, and I believe it is ugly. And in unicode
              > terms, this one character is not capitalized, but title-cased.
              >

              Well, I suppose both uppercase and titlecase should be supported then. Cxu ne?
              CXU VERE NE? (Kompreneble, ĉiukaze mi preferas "verajn" ĉapelitajn literojn.)

              I suppose texts written in "«Fundamenta» h-stilo" could emphasise the radical
              break when needed, as in flug-haveno, chas-hundo, danc-halo, ktp. (er, etc.).
              Anyway, I anticipate that all substitution schemes will become less and less
              necessary as Unicode generalizes: e.g., my fr_BE keyboard supports consonants
              with circumflex "out of the box" in openSUSE Linux 10.2 (thus going back to
              the "universality" of the French typewriters of Zamenhof's time ;-) ).

              Best regards,
              Tony.
              --
              How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all?
            • Hugh Sasse
              ... [Info about plugin trimmed. Thank you. ... I ve seen it used on the web, but it s net easy to search for :-). ... I ve not encountered titlecase before
              Message 6 of 18 , Apr 3, 2007
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                On Mon, 2 Apr 2007, A.J.Mechelynck wrote:

                > Cyril Slobin wrote:
                > > On 4/2/07, Hugh Sasse <hgs@...> wrote:

                [Info about plugin trimmed. Thank you.

                > > > Also isn't your example often written "CXirkaux" because the CX is
                > > > (effectively) one character, capitalized?
                > >
                > > I've newer seen this form, and I believe it is ugly. And in unicode
                > > terms, this one character is not capitalized, but title-cased.

                I've seen it used on the web, but it's net easy to search for :-).
                > >
                >
                > Well, I suppose both uppercase and titlecase should be supported then. Cxu ne?

                I've not encountered "titlecase" before this thread, so I don't
                understand its semantics yet.

                > CXU VERE NE? (Kompreneble, ĉiukaze mi preferas "verajn" ĉapelitajn
                > literojn.)
                >
                > I suppose texts written in "«Fundamenta» h-stilo" could emphasise the
                > radical break when needed, as in flug-haveno, chas-hundo, danc-halo, ktp. (er,
                > etc.). Anyway, I anticipate that all substitution schemes will become less and
                > less necessary as Unicode generalizes: e.g., my fr_BE keyboard supports
                > consonants with circumflex "out of the box" in openSUSE Linux 10.2 (thus going
                > back to the "universality" of the French typewriters of Zamenhof's time ;-) ).

                My problem is that I mainly work through Windows systems (often ssh into
                Solaris, but still) and I don't have a clue what to do with fonts for all
                this, E.g. in PuTTY. I'm not entirely clear how to do this in gvim for that
                matter. I've read some of the help on UTF8 but I'm still rather confused
                being very much at the Beginner stage for this in terms of the Dreyfus
                model of skills aquistion
                http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/articles/cook_until_done.html
                so if someone has a really gentle introduction to all this I'd be grateful.
                I've noticed that Word stores things in UTF-16 (LOTS of nulls :-)) so
                this should be achievable, but....

                >
                > Best regards,
                > Tony.

                Thank you,
                Hugh
              • A.J.Mechelynck
                Hugh Sasse wrote: [...] ... Some years ago, I wrote the chapter of the Vim FAQ about Unicode: browse to http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/vimfaq.html and
                Message 7 of 18 , Apr 3, 2007
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                  Hugh Sasse wrote:
                  [...]
                  > My problem is that I mainly work through Windows systems (often ssh into
                  > Solaris, but still) and I don't have a clue what to do with fonts for all
                  > this, E.g. in PuTTY. I'm not entirely clear how to do this in gvim for that
                  > matter. I've read some of the help on UTF8 but I'm still rather confused
                  > being very much at the Beginner stage for this in terms of the Dreyfus
                  > model of skills aquistion
                  > http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/articles/cook_until_done.html
                  > so if someone has a really gentle introduction to all this I'd be grateful.
                  > I've noticed that Word stores things in UTF-16 (LOTS of nulls :-)) so
                  > this should be achievable, but....
                  >
                  >> Best regards,
                  >> Tony.
                  >
                  > Thank you,
                  > Hugh

                  Some years ago, I wrote the chapter of the Vim FAQ about Unicode: browse to
                  http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/vimfaq.html and scroll to the last
                  section, e.g. by searching the page for the string SECTION 37 (which happens
                  twice, once in the table of contents and once at the head of the section itself).

                  I just reread that section, which is a series of short explanations about the
                  things most important to use Unicode in Vim, with links to the appropriate
                  help topics and in a few cases to documentation elsewhere on the Web. Apart
                  from a few typos, it can still be regarded as accurate. (I didn't check the
                  external links though; if you find one that is broken, report it to Yegappan,
                  the maintainer of that FAQ.)

                  Best regards,
                  Tony.
                  --
                  I'm changing my name to Chrysler
                  I'm going down to Washington, D.C.
                  I'll tell some power broker
                  What they did for Iacocca
                  Will be perfectly acceptable to me!
                  I'm changing my name to Chrysler,
                  I'm heading for that great receiving line.
                  When they hand a million grand out,
                  I'll be standing with my hand out,
                  Yessir, I'll get mine!
                  -- Tom Paxton
                • Hugh Sasse
                  ... Yes, there s good stuff there. I m not entirely sure how all those things will interact but having them all together gives me scope for experimentation.
                  Message 8 of 18 , Apr 3, 2007
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                    On Tue, 3 Apr 2007, A.J.Mechelynck wrote:

                    >
                    > Some years ago, I wrote the chapter of the Vim FAQ about Unicode: browse to
                    > http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/vimfaq.html and scroll to the last
                    > section, e.g. by searching the page for the string SECTION 37 (which happens
                    > twice, once in the table of contents and once at the head of the section
                    > itself).

                    Yes, there's good stuff there. I'm not entirely sure how all those things
                    will interact but having them all together gives me scope for experimentation.
                    Thank you.

                    Hugh
                  • Cyril Slobin
                    ... From http://www.unicode.org/glossary/#T «Titlecase. Uppercased initial letter followed by lowercase letters in words. A casing convention often used in
                    Message 9 of 18 , Apr 3, 2007
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                      On 4/3/07, Hugh Sasse <hgs@...> wrote:

                      > I've not encountered "titlecase" before this thread, so I don't
                      > understand its semantics yet.

                      From http://www.unicode.org/glossary/#T

                      «Titlecase. Uppercased initial letter followed by lowercase letters in
                      words. A casing convention often used in titles, headers, and entries,
                      as exemplified in this glossary.»

                      > My problem is that I mainly work through Windows systems (often ssh into
                      > Solaris, but still) and I don't have a clue what to do with fonts for all
                      > this, E.g. in PuTTY. I'm not entirely clear how to do this in gvim for that
                      > matter. I've read some of the help on UTF8 but I'm still rather confused
                      > being very much at the Beginner stage for this in terms of the Dreyfus
                      > model of skills aquistion

                      Well, I'm now in Windows 98 SE Russian Edition. I've just logged into
                      Linux site, run Vim and typed "Щ á Ĉ" (Cyrillic capital letter shcha
                      followed by a with acute accent followed by C with circumflex accent).
                      All you need is: in putty go to Window -> Translation menu and choose
                      UTF-8 from list; then go to Window -> Appearance menu and choose some
                      ttf font instead of fyxedsys (Courier New is fine). Then log into Unix
                      site, run Vim and set both encoding and termencoding to utf-8.

                      --
                      Cyril Slobin <slobin@...> `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said,
                      <http://45.free.net/~slobin> `it means just what I choose it to mean'
                    • Cyril Slobin
                      ... CXU, Cxu and cxu are all passed cheking, CXu doesn t. And I believe this is a Right Thing. ... Just checked -- translation table used by my plugin knows
                      Message 10 of 18 , Apr 3, 2007
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                        On 4/2/07, A.J.Mechelynck <antoine.mechelynck@...> wrote:

                        > Well, I suppose both uppercase and titlecase should be supported then. Cxu ne?
                        > CXU VERE NE? (Kompreneble, ĉiukaze mi preferas "verajn" ĉapelitajn literojn.)

                        CXU, Cxu and cxu are all passed cheking, CXu doesn't. And I believe
                        this is a Right Thing.

                        > I suppose texts written in "«Fundamenta» h-stilo" could emphasise the radical
                        > break when needed, as in flug-haveno, chas-hundo, danc-halo, ktp. (er, etc.).

                        Just checked -- translation table used by my plugin knows about
                        flughaveno and chashundo, but not about danchalo. I don't write this
                        table myself, but borrow it from UniRed (another opensource editor).
                        Anyway you can easy add danchalo and any other such word in the table
                        by yourself -- it is in simple text format.

                        BTW x-style is not free from such problems. Pure Esperanto text is OK,
                        but consider you use the word "Linux" in it!

                        --
                        Cyril Slobin <slobin@...> `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said,
                        <http://45.free.net/~slobin> `it means just what I choose it to mean'
                      • Cyril Slobin
                        Seems like this letter doesn t reached the list. Reposting. I m sorry if it appears twice. ... CXU, Cxu and cxu are all passed cheking, CXu doesn t. And I
                        Message 11 of 18 , Apr 3, 2007
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                          Seems like this letter doesn't reached the list. Reposting. I'm sorry
                          if it appears twice.

                          On 4/2/07, A.J.Mechelynck <antoine.mechelynck@...> wrote:

                          > Well, I suppose both uppercase and titlecase should be supported then. Cxu ne?
                          > CXU VERE NE? (Kompreneble, ĉiukaze mi preferas "verajn" ĉapelitajn literojn.)

                          CXU, Cxu and cxu are all passed cheking, CXu doesn't. And I believe
                          this is a Right Thing.

                          > I suppose texts written in "«Fundamenta» h-stilo" could emphasise the radical
                          > break when needed, as in flug-haveno, chas-hundo, danc-halo, ktp. (er, etc.).

                          Just checked -- translation table used by my plugin knows about
                          flughaveno and chashundo, but not about danchalo. I don't write this
                          table myself, but borrow it from UniRed (another opensource editor).
                          Anyway you can easy add danchalo and any other such word in the table
                          by yourself -- it is in simple text format.

                          BTW x-style is not free from such problems. Pure Esperanto text is OK,
                          but consider you use the word "Linux" in it!

                          --
                          Cyril Slobin <slobin@...> `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said,
                          <http://45.free.net/~slobin> `it means just what I choose it to mean'
                        • Hugh Sasse
                          ... I ll concede this: I m hardly an expert! :-) ... http://fagot.alain.free.fr/KompLeks/UTF8/INDL.html Hugh
                          Message 12 of 18 , Apr 4, 2007
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                            On Wed, 4 Apr 2007, Cyril Slobin wrote:

                            > Seems like this letter doesn't reached the list. Reposting. I'm sorry
                            > if it appears twice.
                            >
                            > On 4/2/07, A.J.Mechelynck <antoine.mechelynck@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > Well, I suppose both uppercase and titlecase should be supported then. Cxu
                            > ne?
                            > > CXU VERE NE? (Kompreneble, ĉiukaze mi preferas "verajn" ĉapelitajn
                            > literojn.)
                            >
                            > CXU, Cxu and cxu are all passed cheking, CXu doesn't. And I believe
                            > this is a Right Thing.

                            I'll concede this: I'm hardly an expert! :-)
                            >
                            > > I suppose texts written in "«Fundamenta» h-stilo" could emphasise the
                            > radical
                            > > break when needed, as in flug-haveno, chas-hundo, danc-halo, ktp. (er,
                            > etc.).
                            >
                            > Just checked -- translation table used by my plugin knows about
                            > flughaveno and chashundo, but not about danchalo. I don't write this
                            > table myself, but borrow it from UniRed (another opensource editor).
                            > Anyway you can easy add danchalo and any other such word in the table
                            > by yourself -- it is in simple text format.
                            >
                            > BTW x-style is not free from such problems. Pure Esperanto text is OK,
                            > but consider you use the word "Linux" in it!

                            :-) Linukso, (tiel Vindozo, Unikso...) I think

                            http://fagot.alain.free.fr/KompLeks/UTF8/INDL.html
                            Hugh
                          • Bram Moolenaar
                            ... There is no maintainer. I simply took the spell files from myspell (OpenOffice.org). They are still dated 27-Oct-2005, thus it appears nobody is working
                            Message 13 of 18 , Apr 19, 2007
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                              Cyril Slobin wrote:

                              > Who maintains Esperanto spell files for Vim? File eo.utf-8.spl is
                              > completely broken! In fact it was broken long ago when I've download
                              > Vim 7.0. Now I've upgrade to 7.0.219 and have checked if something
                              > became better. No hope -- it is the same broken file. I use Win32
                              > version of Vim.

                              There is no maintainer. I simply took the spell files from myspell
                              (OpenOffice.org). They are still dated 27-Oct-2005, thus it appears
                              nobody is working on them.

                              > I have complied my own eo.utf-8.spl from ispell sources by Sergio
                              > Pokrovskij found in Debian 3.1 distribution. It understands both real
                              > Unicode and surrogate "Cxirkaux"-style (if you don't speak Esperanto,
                              > you don't need to understand this). Archive contains .spl file itself,
                              > two .dic files, two .aff files and short readme file (it is in
                              > Esperanto, not English, and named "legumin", not "readme"). You can
                              > download it from:
                              >
                              > http://www.45.free.net/~slobin/vim/eo.utf-8.zip
                              >
                              > Maybe it is a good idea to replace broken file with my one on Vim ftp site.
                              >
                              > I've newer use aap and don't know vim maintaining technology, I've
                              > just manually converted ispell files to myspell ones and than compiled
                              > them to Vim format.
                              >
                              > I have not checked eo.iso-8859-3.spl file, I newer use iso-8859-3.

                              To be able to allow others to reproduce building the .spl file, it's
                              required that a script is used to fetch the input files, do any
                              conversions/patching and use Vim to build the .spl file.

                              Please take the existing $VIMRUNTIME/spell/eo/main.aap and modify it a
                              bit to build the .spl file. This can't be very difficult, you would
                              mostly use the command you type manually.

                              What is strange is that myspell uses eo_l3 and you have eo_EO and eo_UX.
                              Why two regions?

                              --
                              I once paid $12 to peer at the box that held King Tutankhamen's little
                              bandage-covered midget corpse at the De Young Museum in San Francisco. I
                              remember thinking how pleased he'd be about the way things turned out in his
                              afterlife.
                              (Scott Adams - The Dilbert principle)

                              /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
                              /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
                              \\\ download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org ///
                              \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org ///
                            • Cyril Slobin
                              ... OK, I ll try this. Probably tomorrow. ... Esperanto language uses some letters from Latin3 character set. Of course, they are in Unicode too. But during
                              Message 14 of 18 , Apr 20, 2007
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                                On 4/20/07, Bram Moolenaar <Bram@...> wrote:

                                > Please take the existing $VIMRUNTIME/spell/eo/main.aap and modify it a
                                > bit to build the .spl file. This can't be very difficult, you would mostly use
                                > the command you type manually.

                                OK, I'll try this. Probably tomorrow.

                                > What is strange is that myspell uses eo_l3 and you have eo_EO and eo_UX.
                                > Why two regions?

                                Esperanto language uses some letters from Latin3 character set. Of
                                course, they are in Unicode too. But during half-century in
                                ASCII-based world there was established some conventions for
                                transcribing these letters in pure ASCII. There are still some
                                disagreements which one is most popular, or most standard, or most
                                suitable, but I believe that "Cxirkaux"-convention is most widely used
                                (no, I can't prove this with statistics). The convention is named
                                "Cxirkaux" after transcription of the word "Ĉirkaŭ" (I hope you have
                                an appropriate font installed to read this). It is handy to be able to
                                check Esperanto text in both modes (or choose any one of two).
                                Probably to make two files -- eo.ascii.spl and eo.utf-8.spl -- will be
                                theoretically more pure, but my solution allows to switch between two
                                modes fast.

                                --
                                Cyril Slobin <slobin@...> `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said,
                                <http://45.free.net/~slobin> `it means just what I choose it to mean'
                              • Bram Moolenaar
                                ... Good. ... OK. So when the user does :set spl=eo_eo he still gets the pure version? It s important that the user has a choice of what words he wants
                                Message 15 of 18 , Apr 20, 2007
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                                  Cyril Slobin wrote:

                                  > On 4/20/07, Bram Moolenaar <Bram@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Please take the existing $VIMRUNTIME/spell/eo/main.aap and modify it a
                                  > > bit to build the .spl file. This can't be very difficult, you would
                                  > > mostly use the command you type manually.
                                  >
                                  > OK, I'll try this. Probably tomorrow.

                                  Good.

                                  > > What is strange is that myspell uses eo_l3 and you have eo_EO and eo_UX.
                                  > > Why two regions?
                                  >
                                  > Esperanto language uses some letters from Latin3 character set. Of
                                  > course, they are in Unicode too. But during half-century in
                                  > ASCII-based world there was established some conventions for
                                  > transcribing these letters in pure ASCII. There are still some
                                  > disagreements which one is most popular, or most standard, or most
                                  > suitable, but I believe that "Cxirkaux"-convention is most widely used
                                  > (no, I can't prove this with statistics). The convention is named
                                  > "Cxirkaux" after transcription of the word "Ĉirkaŭ" (I hope you have
                                  > an appropriate font installed to read this). It is handy to be able to
                                  > check Esperanto text in both modes (or choose any one of two).
                                  > Probably to make two files -- eo.ascii.spl and eo.utf-8.spl -- will be
                                  > theoretically more pure, but my solution allows to switch between two
                                  > modes fast.

                                  OK. So when the user does ":set spl=eo_eo" he still gets the "pure"
                                  version? It's important that the user has a choice of what words he
                                  wants to accept.

                                  --
                                  I recommend ordering large cargo containers of paper towels to make up
                                  whatever budget underruns you have. Paper products are always useful and they
                                  have the advantage of being completely flushable if you need to make room in
                                  the storage area later.
                                  (Scott Adams - The Dilbert principle)

                                  /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
                                  /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
                                  \\\ download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org ///
                                  \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org ///
                                • Cyril Slobin
                                  ... Yes. Setting eo_eo accepts unicode Ĉirkaŭ only, setting eo_ux accepts ascii Cxirkaux only, setting eo accepts both. And again -- I have not tested
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Apr 20, 2007
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                                    On 4/21/07, Bram Moolenaar <Bram@...> wrote:

                                    > OK. So when the user does ":set spl=eo_eo" he still gets the "pure"
                                    > version? It's important that the user has a choice of what words he
                                    > wants to accept.

                                    Yes. Setting eo_eo accepts unicode "Ĉirkaŭ" only, setting eo_ux accepts
                                    ascii "Cxirkaux" only, setting eo accepts both.

                                    And again -- I have not tested latin3 version of spl file, I never use latin3.

                                    --
                                    Cyril Slobin <slobin@...> `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said,
                                    <http://45.free.net/~slobin> `it means just what I choose it to mean'
                                  • A.J.Mechelynck
                                    ... I think you got it. For any people who d want a better understanding of the matter, here s what I could think of as an explanation: The non-ASCII letters
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Apr 20, 2007
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                                      Bram Moolenaar wrote:
                                      > Cyril Slobin wrote:
                                      >
                                      >> On 4/20/07, Bram Moolenaar <Bram@...> wrote:
                                      >>
                                      >>> Please take the existing $VIMRUNTIME/spell/eo/main.aap and modify it a
                                      >>> bit to build the .spl file. This can't be very difficult, you would
                                      >>> mostly use the command you type manually.
                                      >> OK, I'll try this. Probably tomorrow.
                                      >
                                      > Good.
                                      >
                                      >>> What is strange is that myspell uses eo_l3 and you have eo_EO and eo_UX.
                                      >>> Why two regions?
                                      >> Esperanto language uses some letters from Latin3 character set. Of
                                      >> course, they are in Unicode too. But during half-century in
                                      >> ASCII-based world there was established some conventions for
                                      >> transcribing these letters in pure ASCII. There are still some
                                      >> disagreements which one is most popular, or most standard, or most
                                      >> suitable, but I believe that "Cxirkaux"-convention is most widely used
                                      >> (no, I can't prove this with statistics). The convention is named
                                      >> "Cxirkaux" after transcription of the word "Ĉirkaŭ" (I hope you have
                                      >> an appropriate font installed to read this). It is handy to be able to
                                      >> check Esperanto text in both modes (or choose any one of two).
                                      >> Probably to make two files -- eo.ascii.spl and eo.utf-8.spl -- will be
                                      >> theoretically more pure, but my solution allows to switch between two
                                      >> modes fast.
                                      >
                                      > OK. So when the user does ":set spl=eo_eo" he still gets the "pure"
                                      > version? It's important that the user has a choice of what words he
                                      > wants to accept.
                                      >

                                      I think you got it. For any people who'd want a better understanding of the
                                      matter, here's what I could think of as an explanation:

                                      The non-ASCII letters in the Esperanto variant of the Latin alphabet are the
                                      following (in upper and lower case):

                                      Ĉĉ, C-circumflex
                                      Ĝĝ, G-circumflex
                                      Ĥĥ, H-circumflex
                                      Ĵĵ, J-circumflex
                                      Ŝŝ, S-circumflex
                                      Ŭŭ, U-breve

                                      There are at several known ways to transliterate them to ASCII, and
                                      Esperantists have been arguing without end about which one was "the better",
                                      with partisans of the first and last ones below flaming each other for weeks
                                      on end in the Usenet group soc.culture.esperanto and elsewhere:

                                      * "h-method". In the original work which brought Esperanto to the public in
                                      1887, the work "The International Language" in five languages (Russian,
                                      Polish, French, German, and English) by "D-ro Esperanto", a nom-de-plume of
                                      Dr. Louis Lazarus Zamenhof, there was an additional sentence under the
                                      "Alphabet" (I'm quoting from the English edition):

                                      *Remark.* -- If it be found impracticable to print works with the
                                      diacritical signs (^,˘), the letter h may be substituted for the sign
                                      (^), and the sign (˘) may be omitted altogether.

                                      IOW: ch, gh, hh, jh, sh, u.

                                      One problem of this "official" or "Fundamental" notation is that it creates
                                      ambiguities between u and u-breve, and between letter+circumflex and letter+h.
                                      The latter can be found in e.g. chashundo (chas- +hundo, "a hunting dog"),
                                      danchalo (danc- + halo, "a ballroom"), etc. It is, however, most
                                      "natural-looking" in that the most-used of these, c-circumflex and
                                      s-circumflex, have exactly the sound of English ch and sh; and u-breve, which
                                      represents the semivowel [w], is used almost exclusively after a vowel, to
                                      form the second part of the closing diphongs [au] [eu] and, rarely, [ou].
                                      (U-breve also occurs initially in a few imported words like uato
                                      "(hydrophilic) cotton; cotton wool", from French "ouate".)

                                      Examples: chasi "to hunt", ghardeno "a garden", ehho "an echo", bovajho
                                      "beef", shajni "to seem", preskau "almost".

                                      * "Slavic" method (for use on Latin typewriters for East-European countries):
                                      replace the circumflex or breve by a caron (a superscript similar in shape to
                                      the letter v). This method, though "unofficial" like all the ones below, is
                                      also somewhat "natural-looking", at least for Slavic-language people.

                                      * "pre-circumflex method": ^c, ^g, ^h, ^j, ^s, ^u

                                      * "post-circumflex method": c^, g^, h^, j^, s^, u^

                                      * "x-method": cx, gx, hx, jx, sx, ux. This one has been widely used on
                                      computer systems (see at bottom) but it requires _three_ (not two) case
                                      variants for each letter: uppercase (for titles in all-caps), CX GX HX JX SX
                                      UX; titlecase (for the first letter of a sentence or of a proper noun etc.),
                                      Cx Gx Hx Jx Sx Ux; lowercase, cx gx hx jx sx ux.

                                      All the above except the first avoid ambiguities, because Esperanto doesn't
                                      use the letter X (or a freestanding circumflex); but they (especially the
                                      latter three) have been variously described as "ugly" and as "contrary to the
                                      «Fundamento de Esperanto»".

                                      Add to these, any of the above except the last, with u-breve replaced by
                                      u-grave (which, like the dead-key circumflex, can be found on any typewriter
                                      for the French language).

                                      IIUC, the eo_EO region would use the "actual" letters with superscripts (as
                                      found in Latin3 or Unicode), and the eo_UX region would use method 4, which is
                                      widely used on computer systems, including in e-mails emanating from the
                                      Universal Esperanto Association (i.e., the Esperantist headquarters) in Rotterdam.


                                      Best regards,
                                      Tony.
                                      --
                                      Our country has plenty of good five-cent cigars, but the trouble is
                                      they charge fifteen cents for them.
                                    • A.J.Mechelynck
                                      A.J.Mechelynck wrote: [...] ... Best regards, Tony. -- Real Users hate Real Programmers.
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Apr 20, 2007
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                                        A.J.Mechelynck wrote:
                                        [...]
                                        > IIUC, the eo_EO region would use the "actual" letters with superscripts
                                        > (as found in Latin3 or Unicode), and the eo_UX region would use method
                                        > 4, which is widely used on computer systems, including in e-mails

                                        ...oops... s/method 4/the last method above/

                                        > emanating from the Universal Esperanto Association (i.e., the
                                        > Esperantist headquarters) in Rotterdam.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Best regards,
                                        > Tony.

                                        Best regards,
                                        Tony.
                                        --
                                        Real Users hate Real Programmers.
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