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Vim vs MS key shortcut hatred

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  • Eric Arnold
    Now that I ve started using Vim and vi style editing keys again, my fingers can t quite avoid using keys like ^W for word-erase when editing in MS IExplorer,
    Message 1 of 13 , May 9, 2005
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      Now that I've started using Vim and vi style editing keys again, my fingers
      can't quite avoid using keys like ^W for word-erase when editing in
      MS IExplorer, which of course quits the window and blasts all your work.

      Does anyone know of a quick way to change MSwin keys, or am I going to have
      to look for some obscure registry edit, like I did when I remapped control
      and capslock to where nature intended them to be?
    • A. J. Mechelynck
      ... AFAIK, IE keyboard shortcuts can t be changed. But I don t know everything. You can either educate yourself to notice when you re in Vim or not in Vim .
      Message 2 of 13 , May 9, 2005
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        Eric Arnold wrote:
        > Now that I've started using Vim and vi style editing keys again, my fingers
        > can't quite avoid using keys like ^W for word-erase when editing in
        > MS IExplorer, which of course quits the window and blasts all your work.
        >
        > Does anyone know of a quick way to change MSwin keys, or am I going to have
        > to look for some obscure registry edit, like I did when I remapped control
        > and capslock to where nature intended them to be?

        AFAIK, IE keyboard shortcuts can't be changed. But I don't know everything.

        You can either educate yourself to notice when you're "in Vim" or "not
        in Vim". IMHO this is best in the long term. Maybe it will help if you
        use distinctly different fonts, for instance Lucida_Console in Vim if IE
        text-entry forms use Courier New and Notepad uses Fixedsys. You can also
        avoid ^W for word-erase and use daw (or, in Insert mode, ^Odaw) instead.
        It's longer but it's built on a more general pattern ("delete a word";
        dap would be "delete a paragraph", etc.). You may even remap, for
        instance, F11 to ^W (i.e. ":imap <F11> <C-W>") so it will still be a
        single key but a less dangerous one if you use it in IE by mistake.

        Or else you can source $VIMRUNTIME/mswin.vim, which will remap Ctrl-V to
        Paste, Ctrl-C to Copy, Ctrl-X to Cut etc. But it will make some standard
        Vim functions inaccessible (for instance, Ctrl-X for "decrement field"
        or Ctrl-Y for "scroll text by [count] lines to see what's above"; there
        are more). I personally believe that mswin.vim is a piece of crap but
        you don't have to adhere to my beliefs.


        Best regards,
        Tony.
      • George V. Reilly
        Those keystrokes are hardwired into most Windows apps. You could find a keyboard hook to rewrite the keystrokes, I suppose. -- George V. Reilly
        Message 3 of 13 , May 9, 2005
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          Those keystrokes are hardwired into most Windows apps. You could find a
          keyboard hook to rewrite the keystrokes, I suppose.

          --
          George V. Reilly george@...




          Eric Arnold wrote:

          >Now that I've started using Vim and vi style editing keys again, my fingers
          >can't quite avoid using keys like ^W for word-erase when editing in
          >MS IExplorer, which of course quits the window and blasts all your work.
          >
          >Does anyone know of a quick way to change MSwin keys, or am I going to have
          >to look for some obscure registry edit, like I did when I remapped control
          >and capslock to where nature intended them to be?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • panshizhu@routon.com
          I recommend you to try Mozilla FireFox instead of MS IE, the FireFox Browser is far more customizable than IE, and it is open-source, If the source code is
          Message 4 of 13 , May 9, 2005
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            I recommend you to try Mozilla FireFox instead of MS IE, the FireFox
            Browser is far more customizable than IE, and it is open-source, If the
            source code is available, then you can change anything you want, include
            the key map.

            The most irritating "feature" of IE, is that the ESC key erase all contents
            in the form, and nothing can be undone. if you had inputed a paragraph of
            text and pressed ESC (just like in VIM you input a paragraph of text then
            press ESC to go back to normal mode), the everything dissapeared... this
            may got yourself in trouble.

            That's the most important reason that I do not want to use IE at all...


            --
            Sincerely
            Pan, Shizhu. ext: 2221



            Eric Arnold <eric_p_arnold@...> wrote on 2005-05-10 08:21:31:

            >
            > Now that I've started using Vim and vi style editing keys again, my
            fingers
            > can't quite avoid using keys like ^W for word-erase when editing in
            > MS IExplorer, which of course quits the window and blasts all your work.
            >
            > Does anyone know of a quick way to change MSwin keys, or am I going to
            have
            > to look for some obscure registry edit, like I did when I remapped
            control
            > and capslock to where nature intended them to be?
            >
            >
          • Eric Arnold
            You ll note that I said my fingers can t . I know when I m in each app. but all it takes is a moment on auto-pilot (I do most of my typing and editing
            Message 5 of 13 , May 9, 2005
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              You'll note that I said "my fingers can't". I know when I'm in each app. but
              all it takes is a moment on auto-pilot (I do most of my typing and editing
              without engaging any higher mental functions above the 3rd or 4th cervical
              vertebrae) to lapse into the wrong mode, and bam! I've spent so many years
              in Unix land that those reflexes are hard to squelch in MSwin when they are
              constantly refreshed by the pleasant arrival of Vim on my desktop. All that
              misspent effort stretching my errant little finger in search of the evasive
              Backspace or elusive mysterious Del key on the far reaches of my PC keyboard
              (and, yet, still less laborious than the "Twister-for-fingers"
              CTL-ALT-META-SHIFT-yourmama-Emacs ) ( ha! Yahoo spell-check has a correction
              for "yourmama" :-), when I had been spoiled on the local fare of x, X, ^H,
              ^W, and ^U.

              What I've started doing for all meaningful editing is compose in Vim, and then
              copy/paste back and forth to the MS app. It works, but when in the MSwin app,
              I still have the same feeling as trying to drive the 5 MPH speed limit posted
              in parking lots enforced by mountainous ^W speed bumps, I've got to creep
              along, lest I get my undercarriage ripped out.



              --- "A. J. Mechelynck" <antoine.mechelynck@...> wrote:
              > Eric Arnold wrote:
              > > Now that I've started using Vim and vi style editing keys again, my fingers
              > > can't quite avoid using keys like ^W for word-erase when editing in
              > > MS IExplorer, which of course quits the window and blasts all your work.
              > >
              > > Does anyone know of a quick way to change MSwin keys, or am I going to have
              >
              > > to look for some obscure registry edit, like I did when I remapped control
              > > and capslock to where nature intended them to be?
              >
              > AFAIK, IE keyboard shortcuts can't be changed. But I don't know everything.
              >
              > You can either educate yourself to notice when you're "in Vim" or "not
              > in Vim". IMHO this is best in the long term. Maybe it will help if you
              > use distinctly different fonts, for instance Lucida_Console in Vim if IE
              > text-entry forms use Courier New and Notepad uses Fixedsys. You can also
              > avoid ^W for word-erase and use daw (or, in Insert mode, ^Odaw) instead.
              > It's longer but it's built on a more general pattern ("delete a word";
              > dap would be "delete a paragraph", etc.). You may even remap, for
              > instance, F11 to ^W (i.e. ":imap <F11> <C-W>") so it will still be a
              > single key but a less dangerous one if you use it in IE by mistake.
              >
              > Or else you can source $VIMRUNTIME/mswin.vim, which will remap Ctrl-V to
              > Paste, Ctrl-C to Copy, Ctrl-X to Cut etc. But it will make some standard
              > Vim functions inaccessible (for instance, Ctrl-X for "decrement field"
              > or Ctrl-Y for "scroll text by [count] lines to see what's above"; there
              > are more). I personally believe that mswin.vim is a piece of crap but
              > you don't have to adhere to my beliefs.
              >
              >
              > Best regards,
              > Tony.
              >
              >
            • A. J. Mechelynck
              ... [...] ... use Vim keystrokes in Notepad or Thunderbird now and then (then I allow myself a good swear and try undoing the damage using Ctrl-Z, which is
              Message 6 of 13 , May 9, 2005
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                Eric Arnold wrote:
                > You'll note that I said "my fingers can't". I know when I'm in each app. but
                > all it takes is a moment on auto-pilot (I do most of my typing and editing
                > without engaging any higher mental functions above the 3rd or 4th cervical
                > vertebrae) to lapse into the wrong mode, and bam! I've spent so many years
                > in Unix land that those reflexes are hard to squelch in MSwin when they are
                > constantly refreshed by the pleasant arrival of Vim on my desktop. All that
                > misspent effort stretching my errant little finger in search of the evasive
                > Backspace or elusive mysterious Del key on the far reaches of my PC keyboard
                > (and, yet, still less laborious than the "Twister-for-fingers"
                > CTL-ALT-META-SHIFT-yourmama-Emacs ) ( ha! Yahoo spell-check has a correction
                > for "yourmama" :-), when I had been spoiled on the local fare of x, X, ^H,
                > ^W, and ^U.
                >
                > What I've started doing for all meaningful editing is compose in Vim, and then
                > copy/paste back and forth to the MS app. It works, but when in the MSwin app,
                > I still have the same feeling as trying to drive the 5 MPH speed limit posted
                > in parking lots enforced by mountainous ^W speed bumps, I've got to creep
                > along, lest I get my undercarriage ripped out.
                [...]

                :-) Me I'm a former Dos hand, yet I'm already finding myself trying to
                use Vim keystrokes in Notepad or Thunderbird now and then (then I allow
                myself a good swear and try undoing the damage using Ctrl-Z, which is
                Undo in many Windows programs). About composing in Vim and copy-pasting,
                I find it invaluable whenever I want to use characters that are not on
                my keyboard, but for which I have a Vim keymap (e.g. Russian), a known
                digraph (e.g. Turkish s-cedilla), or even whose Unicode codepoint is
                known to me (some Chinese characters). To use your parking lot metaphor,
                I feel like I just graduated from the wheelbarrow to the sidecar
                motorbike. No more paper keyboards for me.


                Best regards,
                Tony.
              • Arun Easi
                You are not alone here! Watch the thread: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=107713428100001&r=1&w=2 Some applications are mentioned here, which you could give a
                Message 7 of 13 , May 9, 2005
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                  You are not alone here!

                  Watch the thread:

                  http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=107713428100001&r=1&w=2

                  Some applications are mentioned here, which you could give a shot. I,
                  myself, have not tried it; so no comments about the app.

                  good luck!

                  -Arun

                  On Mon, 9 May 2005, Eric Arnold wrote:

                  >
                  > Now that I've started using Vim and vi style editing keys again, my fingers
                  > can't quite avoid using keys like ^W for word-erase when editing in
                  > MS IExplorer, which of course quits the window and blasts all your work.
                  >
                  > Does anyone know of a quick way to change MSwin keys, or am I going to have
                  > to look for some obscure registry edit, like I did when I remapped control
                  > and capslock to where nature intended them to be?
                  >
                  >
                • David Rock
                  ... My onus is the Outlook web access client. try typing a paragraph of important (used loosly) dialogue in that horrid excuse for an application and watch it
                  Message 8 of 13 , May 9, 2005
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                    * Eric Arnold <eric_p_arnold@...> [2005-05-09 17:21]:
                    >
                    > Now that I've started using Vim and vi style editing keys again, my fingers
                    > can't quite avoid using keys like ^W for word-erase when editing in
                    > MS IExplorer, which of course quits the window and blasts all your work.
                    >
                    > Does anyone know of a quick way to change MSwin keys, or am I going to have
                    > to look for some obscure registry edit, like I did when I remapped control
                    > and capslock to where nature intended them to be?
                    >

                    My onus is the Outlook web access client. try typing a paragraph of
                    important (used loosly) dialogue in that horrid excuse for an
                    application and watch it all disappear with an errant vim keystroke.
                    :-(

                    --
                    David Rock
                    david@...
                  • Marian Csontos
                    Possible solutions: 1. To ask mozilla dev team to include vim into FF and TB. It would be killer feature which would make me leave opera. And it would be funny
                    Message 9 of 13 , May 9, 2005
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                      Possible solutions:

                      1. To ask mozilla dev team to include vim into FF and TB.
                      It would be killer feature which would make me leave opera.
                      And it would be funny too when someone tried to browse the web with your
                      browser.
                      (Does Vim embedding work at now?)

                      2. To hack MS components to use vim. Would be even better than first, but
                      too complicated.

                      3. To google vim script for web browsing and e-mailing.

                      4. To customize FF. Looks as the easiest one.

                      -- Marian


                      ________ Information from NOD32 ________
                      This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System for Linux Mail Server.
                      http://www.nod32.com
                    • Eric Arnold
                      nnCron is the sh*.. stuff! I plopped these in the nncron.tab file, and it worked as advertised. It makes me sorry I failed to learn Forth back on my Apple
                      Message 10 of 13 , May 10, 2005
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                        nnCron is the sh*.. stuff! I plopped these in the nncron.tab file, and
                        it worked as advertised. It makes me sorry I failed to learn Forth back
                        on my Apple II. Anyway, for some reason the {BS} backspace keycode in
                        nnCron works like ^W should. Odd. Overall, very cool.



                        #( disable_ctrl_w_for_ie
                        WatchHotKey: "^w"
                        Rule: WIN-ACTIVE: "*Microsoft Internet Explorer"
                        Action:
                        \ displaying a message instead of closing window:
                        \ MSG: "This shortcut does not work in IE! :)"
                        SEND-KEYS: "{BS}"

                        )#

                        #( disable_escape_for_ie
                        WatchHotKey: ""
                        Rule: WIN-ACTIVE: "*Microsoft Internet Explorer"
                        Action:
                        \ displaying a message instead of closing window:
                        \ MSG: "escape shortcut does not work in IE! :)"
                        )


                        --- Arun Easi <aeasi@...> wrote:
                        > You are not alone here!
                        >
                        > Watch the thread:
                        >
                        > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=107713428100001&r=1&w=2
                        >
                        > Some applications are mentioned here, which you could give a shot. I,
                        > myself, have not tried it; so no comments about the app.
                        >
                        > good luck!
                        >
                        > -Arun
                        >
                        > On Mon, 9 May 2005, Eric Arnold wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        > > Now that I've started using Vim and vi style editing keys again, my fingers
                        > > can't quite avoid using keys like ^W for word-erase when editing in
                        > > MS IExplorer, which of course quits the window and blasts all your work.
                        > >
                        > > Does anyone know of a quick way to change MSwin keys, or am I going to have
                        > > to look for some obscure registry edit, like I did when I remapped control
                        > > and capslock to where nature intended them to be?
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Eric Arnold
                        I spoke too soon about as advertised . Now when I type ^W in any window, the first ^W shows up, and subsequent ^W s show up as regular w s. It seems that
                        Message 11 of 13 , May 10, 2005
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                          I spoke too soon about "as advertised". Now when I type ^W in any
                          window, the first ^W shows up, and subsequent ^W s show up as regular
                          w's. It seems that as long as it is watching the ^w key, it causes the
                          problem. I should have known it was too good to be true.


                          --- Eric Arnold <eric_p_arnold@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > nnCron is the sh*.. stuff! I plopped these in the nncron.tab file, and
                          > it worked as advertised. It makes me sorry I failed to learn Forth back
                          > on my Apple II. Anyway, for some reason the {BS} backspace keycode in
                          > nnCron works like ^W should. Odd. Overall, very cool.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > #( disable_ctrl_w_for_ie
                          > WatchHotKey: "^w"
                          > Rule: WIN-ACTIVE: "*Microsoft Internet Explorer"
                          > Action:
                          > \ displaying a message instead of closing window:
                          > \ MSG: "This shortcut does not work in IE! :)"
                          > SEND-KEYS: "{BS}"
                          >
                          > )#
                          >
                          > #( disable_escape_for_ie
                          > WatchHotKey: ""
                          > Rule: WIN-ACTIVE: "*Microsoft Internet Explorer"
                          > Action:
                          > \ displaying a message instead of closing window:
                          > \ MSG: "escape shortcut does not work in IE! :)"
                          > )
                          >
                          >
                          > --- Arun Easi <aeasi@...> wrote:
                          > > You are not alone here!
                          > >
                          > > Watch the thread:
                          > >
                          > > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=107713428100001&r=1&w=2
                          > >
                          > > Some applications are mentioned here, which you could give a shot. I,
                          > > myself, have not tried it; so no comments about the app.
                          > >
                          > > good luck!
                          > >
                          > > -Arun
                          > >
                          > > On Mon, 9 May 2005, Eric Arnold wrote:
                          > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Now that I've started using Vim and vi style editing keys again, my
                          > fingers
                          > > > can't quite avoid using keys like ^W for word-erase when editing in
                          > > > MS IExplorer, which of course quits the window and blasts all your work.
                          > > >
                          > > > Does anyone know of a quick way to change MSwin keys, or am I going to
                          > have
                          > > > to look for some obscure registry edit, like I did when I remapped
                          > control
                          > > > and capslock to where nature intended them to be?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Reid Thompson
                          http://webpages.charter.net/krumsick/ may work reid
                          Message 12 of 13 , May 10, 2005
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                          • Gary Johnson
                            ... Firefox has extensions now that allow you to use vim to edit text areas and to view the page source. External Editor ViewSourceWith They re terrific! Gary
                            Message 13 of 13 , May 10, 2005
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                              On 2005-05-10, Marian Csontos <csontos@...> wrote:
                              > Possible solutions:
                              >
                              > 1. To ask mozilla dev team to include vim into FF and TB.
                              > It would be killer feature which would make me leave opera.
                              > And it would be funny too when someone tried to browse the web with your
                              > browser.
                              > (Does Vim embedding work at now?)

                              Firefox has extensions now that allow you to use vim to edit text
                              areas and to view the page source.

                              External Editor
                              ViewSourceWith

                              They're terrific!

                              Gary

                              --
                              Gary Johnson | Agilent Technologies
                              garyjohn@... | Wireless Division
                              | Spokane, Washington, USA
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