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Re: virus attachments

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  • Antoine J. Mechelynck
    ... From: Matthew Winn To: vim Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 10:28 AM Subject: Re: virus attachments [...] ...
    Message 1 of 43 , Feb 6, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Matthew Winn" <matthew@...>
      To: "vim" <vim@...>
      Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 10:28 AM
      Subject: Re: virus attachments
      [...]

      > Not everyone can _get_ low-cost, high-speed access. It takes me about
      > half an hour to read the Vim and Vim-dev lists each day. On a dialup
      > account it would take about two minutes to download a complete day's
      > messages. Reading the same content on a web forum would take longer
      > than reading email (because there's no single-key-read feature for the
      > web) and would require being online for all that time: call it a total
      > of 40 minutes. I don't think any medium which increases the cost by a
      > factor of 20 is all that useful, and it _certainly_ discriminates in
      > favour of those like you who are able to spend as much time as they
      > want online.
      >
      > And that doesn't take into account the time taken to research and write
      > replies. If I want to post to a list I take time to check my facts
      > first. On technical lists like this I might want to try out some code.
      > I'm good at regular expressions and sometimes respond to regexp questions
      > here, but to do that I have to try out the expressions before I post
      > them. If I was reading this list on a web forum using a dialup line I'd
      > be paying for all that time. For dialup users a web forum encourages
      > hasty and poorly thought out responses.
      >
      > > I agree that no discussion "should" be restricted to the rich, or the
      people
      > > from "developed" countries, ... or those who speak English more or less
      > > fluently... but there is a lot of difference between "should" and
      "shall".
      >
      > When I compare a web forum with a mailing list or newsgroup covering the
      > same subject matter I invariably find that the web forum has a lower
      > diversity. The overwhelming majority of posters are from places where
      > internet access is cheap, and the age range of posters shows a strong
      > bias towards children. On mailing lists and newsgroups the type of
      > internet access you can afford or obtain doesn't matter: everyone is
      > able to contribute to the group on an equal footing, whether they're
      > lucky enough to have a multi-megabit link provided by their employer or
      > are stuck with a 28K dialup link in some country where the power supply
      > is only reliable for 12 hours a day.

      My point (one of them) was that someone on a 28K dialup in a country where
      the power supply is not reliable more than half the time, would not be on an
      equal footing with you and I, even if using the same OS and the same client
      to read the Vim mailing lists, especially if he also got as much spam as I
      do -- I don't know about you, but I get about twice as much spam as there
      are postings on the main Vim list.
      >
      > The web has many uses but it's wrong to suppose that it can replace all
      > other forms of communication on the internet. Some things are better
      > done by email, some by usenet and some by chat. The web is at its best
      > for communications which fit the same sort of pattern as television or
      > radio: a primarily one-way stream of information broadcast to recipients
      > who aren't expected to respond. It's not the best solution for a many-
      > sided discussion.
      >
      > --
      > Matthew Winn (matthew@...)
      >

      What is right or wrong in terms of Internet access? There are even "webmail"
      servers, which provide http access to mail. IMHO they won't displace
      POP/SMTP client applications; but does that make them "wrong"? What I regard
      as "right" is whatever provides the most diversity, the most freedom of
      choice for the user; the most ease of use also, which implies diversity
      since different users have different preferences.

      Regards,
      Tony.
    • Antoine J. Mechelynck
      ... From: Matthew Winn To: vim Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 10:28 AM Subject: Re: virus attachments [...] ...
      Message 43 of 43 , Feb 6, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Matthew Winn" <matthew@...>
        To: "vim" <vim@...>
        Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 10:28 AM
        Subject: Re: virus attachments
        [...]

        > Not everyone can _get_ low-cost, high-speed access. It takes me about
        > half an hour to read the Vim and Vim-dev lists each day. On a dialup
        > account it would take about two minutes to download a complete day's
        > messages. Reading the same content on a web forum would take longer
        > than reading email (because there's no single-key-read feature for the
        > web) and would require being online for all that time: call it a total
        > of 40 minutes. I don't think any medium which increases the cost by a
        > factor of 20 is all that useful, and it _certainly_ discriminates in
        > favour of those like you who are able to spend as much time as they
        > want online.
        >
        > And that doesn't take into account the time taken to research and write
        > replies. If I want to post to a list I take time to check my facts
        > first. On technical lists like this I might want to try out some code.
        > I'm good at regular expressions and sometimes respond to regexp questions
        > here, but to do that I have to try out the expressions before I post
        > them. If I was reading this list on a web forum using a dialup line I'd
        > be paying for all that time. For dialup users a web forum encourages
        > hasty and poorly thought out responses.
        >
        > > I agree that no discussion "should" be restricted to the rich, or the
        people
        > > from "developed" countries, ... or those who speak English more or less
        > > fluently... but there is a lot of difference between "should" and
        "shall".
        >
        > When I compare a web forum with a mailing list or newsgroup covering the
        > same subject matter I invariably find that the web forum has a lower
        > diversity. The overwhelming majority of posters are from places where
        > internet access is cheap, and the age range of posters shows a strong
        > bias towards children. On mailing lists and newsgroups the type of
        > internet access you can afford or obtain doesn't matter: everyone is
        > able to contribute to the group on an equal footing, whether they're
        > lucky enough to have a multi-megabit link provided by their employer or
        > are stuck with a 28K dialup link in some country where the power supply
        > is only reliable for 12 hours a day.

        My point (one of them) was that someone on a 28K dialup in a country where
        the power supply is not reliable more than half the time, would not be on an
        equal footing with you and I, even if using the same OS and the same client
        to read the Vim mailing lists, especially if he also got as much spam as I
        do -- I don't know about you, but I get about twice as much spam as there
        are postings on the main Vim list.
        >
        > The web has many uses but it's wrong to suppose that it can replace all
        > other forms of communication on the internet. Some things are better
        > done by email, some by usenet and some by chat. The web is at its best
        > for communications which fit the same sort of pattern as television or
        > radio: a primarily one-way stream of information broadcast to recipients
        > who aren't expected to respond. It's not the best solution for a many-
        > sided discussion.
        >
        > --
        > Matthew Winn (matthew@...)
        >

        What is right or wrong in terms of Internet access? There are even "webmail"
        servers, which provide http access to mail. IMHO they won't displace
        POP/SMTP client applications; but does that make them "wrong"? What I regard
        as "right" is whatever provides the most diversity, the most freedom of
        choice for the user; the most ease of use also, which implies diversity
        since different users have different preferences.

        Regards,
        Tony.
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