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AW: FAQ : should we or shouldn't we?

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  • Riehm Stephen
    a faq is a great idea, but if you go to google and type vim faq you ll see that there are already a whole bunch of them. Maybe it would be better for someone
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 1, 2003
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      a faq is a great idea, but if you go to google and type 'vim faq' you'll see
      that there are already a whole bunch of them.
      Maybe it would be better for someone (who actually uses them and can provide
      a qualified statement about their quality) could put together a "whose who
      of the vim FAQ's"

      On a similar note, I notice time and again that MANY people do things
      inefficiently because they don't know better.
      When I was first introduced to vi I was told about hjkl, i, a and x. Only
      when I found a decent tutorial did I realise how the commands were
      structured and some of the richer possibilities of the editor. My _only_
      problem with vim is keeping up with all the new innovations.

      maybe a "Tip of the day/week" might be of more use.

      Of course those of us who use vim without looking consider most of the
      features to be second nature so it doesn't even occur to us that something
      like xp could be considered a usefull tip. But that's exactly the sort of
      thing that doesn't jump out at you with vi/vim. There is no 'xp' command,
      it's just a neat side effect of using two commands together.

      Maybe some of the newbies could send "small" ;-) emails describing their
      annoyances or things that they find awkward when editing.

      Some random ideas for tips:

      less common but useful settings (smartindent, incsearch, smartcase,
      ...)
      less common but useful movement commands ( {, }, [[, ]], f, t, ...)
      making the best use of visual mode
      commonly used command combinations ( xp, diw, >ip, >%, ... )

      and so on.

      Steve
      --

      -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
      Von: Saar Machtinger [mailto:SAARMA@...]
      Gesendet: Mittwoch, 1. Oktober 2003 11:56
      An: vim@...
      Betreff: FAQ : should we or shouldn't we?


      I wonder, should we try to create a FAQ or not?

      It seems that there are many recurring questions, and as we know most of the
      answers have already been answered at least once, so shouldn't we make an
      FAQ?

      However, for many of the questions the answers lie several ':h' away, but
      for those who ask the questions, and who didn't/couldn't find the response
      in the :h files, will they find it at the FAQ?

      If you think that we should try and compile a kind of FAQ, lets create a new
      thread with header: FAQ new (or something like that), and try to see what
      we get.

      Saar


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    • Charles E. Campbell
      ... FYI, http://vim.sourceforge.net/tips/tip.php?tip_id=329 includes a tip for swapping adjacent letters (as well as adjacent words). I think the abbreviation
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 1, 2003
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        On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 01:19:44PM +0200, Riehm Stephen wrote:
        >...
        > Of course those of us who use vim without looking consider most of the
        > features to be second nature so it doesn't even occur to us that something
        > like xp could be considered a usefull tip. But that's exactly the sort of
        > thing that doesn't jump out at you with vi/vim. There is no 'xp' command,
        > it's just a neat side effect of using two commands together.
        >...

        FYI, http://vim.sourceforge.net/tips/tip.php?tip_id=329 includes a tip
        for swapping adjacent letters (as well as adjacent words).

        I think the abbreviation approach is pretty good; I use Matt Corks'
        <wordlist.vim> (extended with some things I tend to misspell as I
        quickly type). I see that Zachmann and Hicks have put a <wordlist.vim>
        abbreviations file up on vim.sf.net:

        http://vim.sourceforge.net/scripts/script.php?script_id=79

        Regards,
        Chip Campbell

        --
        Charles E Campbell, Jr, PhD _ __ __
        Goddard Space Flight Center / /_/\_\_/ /
        cec@... /_/ \/_//_/
        PGP public key: http://www.erols.com/astronaut/pgp.html
      • Keith Roberts
        ... The problem with googling is that you get too many references, and it takes too much time to go thru them all to see what might actually address your
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 1, 2003
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          >-----Original Message-----
          >From: Riehm Stephen [mailto:s.riehm@...]
          >Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 3:20 AM
          >To: vim@...
          >Subject: AW: FAQ : should we or shouldn't we?
          >
          >a faq is a great idea, but if you go to google and type 'vim faq' you'll
          >see that there are already a whole bunch of them.
          >Maybe it would be better for someone (who actually uses them and can
          >provide a qualified statement about their quality) could put together a
          >"whose who of the vim FAQ's"

          The problem with googling is that you get too many references, and it takes
          too much time to go thru them all to see what might actually address your
          specific problem. Also, too many references to the same docs, or different
          versions of them. Painful, very painful.

          Perhaps vim help could have a section which points to "other resources"
          (with appropriate disclaimer, of course) ... such as existing FAQ's, etc.
          It should also tell a user HOW to go about searching for other "help", since
          some users are more sophisticated in this regard than others ... and the
          ones you would be trying to help here are most likely the less sophisticated
          ones. The easier you make it for them to find help elsewhere, the less the
          list will be bothered by these "routine" inquiries. At the very least, when
          they do, you can then point them to the proper "starting gate", as it were.

          >maybe a "Tip of the day/week" might be of more use.

          Not a bad idea.

          >Some random ideas for tips: [edited]
          > less common but useful settings: smartindent, smartcase, ...

          Some VERY large discussions here. Subjects like indentation, syntax files,
          etc. might be better served with FAQs of their own. There's lots of help
          for syntax, for example, but it doesn't really allow someone who hasn't
          dealt with these issues FOR YEARS to create a syntax file that meets their
          criteria. What's really needed for that subject is a tutorial which
          incrementally add to ones understanding of how syntax files work, and how
          they can best be constructed to work with various language features.

          > commonly used command combinations (>ip, >%, ... )

          Perfect example ... couldn't find help for these, and it sure ain't obvious
          to me what exactly [the first one] should do (and the 2nd seems to operate
          *contrary* to the help -- IIUC, % is not a motion, it's a range).
        • mikmach@wp.pl
          ... About googling: is Yegappan s FAQ registered at DMOZ? I discovered that registration there can put your link at the very first page of results in Google
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 1, 2003
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            On 1 Oct 2003 at 10:13, Keith Roberts wrote:

            > >-----Original Message-----
            > >From: Riehm Stephen [mailto:s.riehm@...]
            > >Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 3:20 AM
            > >To: vim@...
            > >Subject: AW: FAQ : should we or shouldn't we?
            > >
            > >a faq is a great idea, but if you go to google and type 'vim faq' you'll
            > >see that there are already a whole bunch of them.
            > >Maybe it would be better for someone (who actually uses them and can
            > >provide a qualified statement about their quality) could put together a
            > >"whose who of the vim FAQ's"
            >
            > The problem with googling is that you get too many references, and it takes
            > too much time to go thru them all to see what might actually address your
            > specific problem. Also, too many references to the same docs, or different
            > versions of them. Painful, very painful.

            About googling: is Yegappan's FAQ registered at DMOZ? I discovered that registration there can put your link at the very first page
            of results in Google (even as a first link from 10th page previously!)

            It helps also in other sites of this type (Alta Vista, Yahoo etc.).

            m.
          • Benji Fisher
            ... First, I will echo what several other posters have said: a good, current FAQ is maintained by Yegappan Lakshmanan at
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 2, 2003
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              On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 01:19:44PM +0200, Riehm Stephen wrote:
              > a faq is a great idea, but if you go to google and type 'vim faq' you'll see
              > that there are already a whole bunch of them.
              > Maybe it would be better for someone (who actually uses them and can provide
              > a qualified statement about their quality) could put together a "whose who
              > of the vim FAQ's"
              >
              > On a similar note, I notice time and again that MANY people do things
              > inefficiently because they don't know better.
              > When I was first introduced to vi I was told about hjkl, i, a and x. Only
              > when I found a decent tutorial did I realise how the commands were
              > structured and some of the richer possibilities of the editor. My _only_
              > problem with vim is keeping up with all the new innovations.
              >
              > maybe a "Tip of the day/week" might be of more use.

              First, I will echo what several other posters have said: a good,
              current FAQ is maintained by Yegappan Lakshmanan at
              http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/vimfaq.html

              Second, the site that is now www.vim.org started as a collaborative
              tip archive. We seem to be up to 572. See
              http://www.vim.org/tips/index.php
              If you want a Tip of the Day, get my vimtips plugin
              http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=88
              and download the current list of tips.

              HTH --Benji Fisher
            • Riehm Stephen
              Hi Benji, ... indeed! The section on changing text is very good. ... True, I forgot about that :-/ ... sadly, this link didn t work :-( All I got was: Not
              Message 6 of 8 , Oct 6, 2003
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                Hi Benji,

                > > maybe a "Tip of the day/week" might be of more use.

                > First, I will echo what several other posters have said: a good,
                > current FAQ is maintained by Yegappan Lakshmanan at
                > http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/vimfaq.html

                indeed! The section on "changing text" is very good.

                > Second, the site that is now www.vim.org started as a collaborative
                > tip archive. We seem to be up to 572.

                True, I forgot about that :-/

                > If you want a Tip of the Day, get my vimtips plugin
                > http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=88
                > and download the current list of tips.

                sadly, this link didn't work :-( All I got was:

                Not Found
                The requested URL /tip_download.php was not found on this server.
                ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                Apache/1.3.26 Server at vim.sourceforge.net Port 80

                Cheers,

                Steve


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                dieser E-Mail unzulassig ist. Wir bitten Sie, sich in diesem Fall
                mit dem Absender der E-Mail in Verbindung zu setzen.

                The information contained in this email is intended solely for
                the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, any form
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              • Keith Roberts
                ... It worked for me just now. :) Benji, will this work with sessions? [I habitually re-invoke vim so as to activate the last session I was working with when I
                Message 7 of 8 , Oct 6, 2003
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                  >-----Original Message-----
                  >From: Riehm Stephen [mailto:s.riehm@...]
                  >Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 1:01 AM
                  >To: vim@...
                  >Subject: AW: FAQ : should we or shouldn't we?
                  >
                  >Hi Benji,
                  >
                  >> If you want a Tip of the Day, get my vimtips plugin
                  >> http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=88
                  >> and download the current list of tips.
                  >
                  >sadly, this link didn't work :-( All I got was:

                  It worked for me just now. :)

                  Benji, will this work with sessions? [I habitually re-invoke vim so as to
                  activate the last session I was working with when I closed down.]
                • Benji Fisher
                  ... Probably just a temporary failure. ... I am not sure. Try it and see. It uses a VimEnter autocommand, and I would have to read :help startup again to see
                  Message 8 of 8 , Oct 6, 2003
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                    On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 10:06:26AM -0700, Keith Roberts wrote:
                    > >-----Original Message-----
                    > >From: Riehm Stephen [mailto:s.riehm@...]
                    > >Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 1:01 AM
                    > >To: vim@...
                    > >Subject: AW: FAQ : should we or shouldn't we?
                    > >
                    > >Hi Benji,
                    > >
                    > >> If you want a Tip of the Day, get my vimtips plugin
                    > >> http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=88
                    > >> and download the current list of tips.
                    > >
                    > >sadly, this link didn't work :-( All I got was:
                    >
                    > It worked for me just now. :)

                    Probably just a temporary failure.

                    > Benji, will this work with sessions? [I habitually re-invoke vim so as to
                    > activate the last session I was working with when I closed down.]

                    I am not sure. Try it and see. It uses a VimEnter autocommand,
                    and I would have to read :help startup again to see whether that happens
                    before or after a session file does its thing. If it does not work
                    OOTB, you can use the :Tip[OfTheDay] command, and maybe put it in a
                    script file yourself.

                    HTH --Benji Fisher
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