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Re: clearcase eclipsed files are lost

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  • Douglas L . Potts
    ... Hello. I ll try to help you as much as I follow your problem. ... Files get eclipsed in ClearCase based on how your clearcase config spec is setup. That
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 1, 2002
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      On Fri, Mar 01, 2002 at 08:53:40AM +0100 Rainer Stransky wrote:
      > Hello,
      Hello. I'll try to help you as much as I follow your problem.


      > i am working in a development enviroment und hp-ux and clearcase.
      >
      > In special cases a file in clearcase has to be made to view private and afterwards
      > this file is eclipsed (in do not exactly know what this means in terms of a file
      > system).
      Files get eclipsed in ClearCase based on how your clearcase config spec
      is setup. That is the set of rules that determines which particular
      version (on the file's version tree) that you will be operating on.
      Sometimes the config spec can be setup such that a view private file can
      be eclipsed (ie. that particular version is not visible) by a clearcase
      element. Or possibly vise versa.

      With that said, let's try and address your particular problem.

      > But a ls -l show that all is ok for editing and writing the file
      >
      > > ls -l Imakefile
      > -rw-rw-r-- 1 stransky ms_e 1735 Mar 1 08:09 Imakefile
      >
      > Editing this file with /usr/bin/vi (not a vi clone) work fine.
      There have been eariler posts that have indicated some differences in
      behavior of Vim versus vanilla vi in that Vim will try to utilitize ACL
      calls for accessing the file, which may be the explanation for what you
      are experiencing.

      > Editing this file with vim (6.0), this "eclipsed" file is lost !


      > An attempt to write the file, returns the message:
      > "Imakefile" E166: Can't open linked file for writing
      >
      > The same for opening and closing. The file is lost / removed and afterwards
      > the clearcase element as specified in the config spec is seen.
      >
      > > ls -l Imakefile
      > -r--r--r-- 1 cc-admin ms_e 1728 Apr 25 2001 Imakefile
      >
      > > ct ls Imakefile
      > Imakefile@@/main/17 Rule: /main/LATEST
      >
      >
      > It seems that vim remove/moves the file (for backup or swapfile ?) ,
      Vim copies the original file to the backup file, before you begin
      editting, so that the file permissions are kept. But this would only
      happen if you have the 'backup' option turned on.

      > what is not permitted in this case. Removing or moving the file will
      > reappear the real clearcase element in the clearcase file system as
      > the selected version readonly !
      >
      >
      > Is there a possibility to avoid such behaviour ?

      On second thought, maybe we should take this off-line. This is really
      more of a problem with how ClearCase does things, and not vim. I'll
      help as much as I can.

      -Doug

      --
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      Douglas L. Potts
      "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
      temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
      -Benjamin Franklin
      GPG Fingerprint: 768A EEF8 197A 4C9A 5EF7 DA5B 464C 97DF DCD5 68C2
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    • Gary Johnson
      ... [problem discussion deleted] ... I also use ClearCase with HP-UX, so when you two figure this out, would you please post a summary here? Thanks. Gary --
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 1, 2002
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        On Fri, Mar 01, 2002 at 08:01:18AM -0500, Douglas L . Potts wrote:
        > On Fri, Mar 01, 2002 at 08:53:40AM +0100 Rainer Stransky wrote:

        > > i am working in a development enviroment und hp-ux and clearcase.

        [problem discussion deleted]

        > On second thought, maybe we should take this off-line. This is really
        > more of a problem with how ClearCase does things, and not vim. I'll
        > help as much as I can.

        I also use ClearCase with HP-UX, so when you two figure this out, would
        you please post a summary here? Thanks.

        Gary

        --
        Gary Johnson | Agilent Technologies
        garyjohn@... | Spokane, Washington, USA
      • Ron Aaron
        ... And I also had problems w/ ClearCase. Ah, ClearCase! Sure, it s expensive, but at least it s slow!!
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 1, 2002
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          Gary Johnson <garyjohn@...> writes:
          >
          >I also use ClearCase with HP-UX, so when you two figure this out, would
          >you please post a summary here? Thanks.
          >

          And I also had problems w/ ClearCase.

          Ah, ClearCase! Sure, it's expensive, but at least it's slow!!
        • Brandon Metcalf
          ... There is no reason in ClearCase to intentionally eclipse a file element or to have one eclipsed to have write access. If you are getting eclipsed
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 1, 2002
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            Rainer.Stransky@... writes:

            || i am working in a development enviroment und hp-ux and clearcase.
            ||
            || In special cases a file in clearcase has to be made to view private and after
            || this file is eclipsed (in do not exactly know what this means in terms of a f
            || system).

            There is no reason in ClearCase to intentionally eclipse a file element
            or to have one eclipsed to have write access. If you are getting
            eclipsed elements, you are doing something wrong.

            Write access to elements is achieved by checking out the element which
            gives you a view private file, but doesn't eclipse anything.

            Brandon
            --
            And stop calling me Shirley
            --Doctor Rumack, Airplane
          • Rainer Stransky
            ... Thanks, that helps me a lot. But without a joke. I have to work in a development enviroment, in which all checkouts (in other views, by other guys) are
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 1, 2002
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              Brandon Metcalf wrote:

              > Rainer.Stransky@... writes:
              >
              > || i am working in a development enviroment und hp-ux and clearcase.
              > ||
              > || In special cases a file in clearcase has to be made to view private and after
              > || this file is eclipsed (in do not exactly know what this means in terms of a f
              > || system).
              >
              > There is no reason in ClearCase to intentionally eclipse a file element
              > or to have one eclipsed to have write access. If you are getting
              > eclipsed elements, you are doing something wrong.
              >
              > Write access to elements is achieved by checking out the element which
              > gives you a view private file, but doesn't eclipse anything.
              >

              Thanks, that helps me a lot.

              But without a joke. I have to work in a development enviroment, in which all
              checkouts (in other views, by other guys) are locked.
              So there is no chance for me to do a small quick change on a source without that
              tricky workaoround to get a eclipsed private file by:
              mv file.cc file.cc.priv
              cleartool co .
              cleartool rm file.cc
              mv file.cc.priv file.cc
              cleartool unco .

              That all will be done in a nice perl scirpt. All guys here in this enviroment are
              working that way.

              So my warranted question is, how to setup vim (if possible) to avoid losing the
              file, by open it with vim6.0

              I am not sure, but i think that behaviour was another one with vim5.4 !?

              Rainer

              >
              > Brandon
              > --
              > And stop calling me Shirley
              > --Doctor Rumack, Airplane
            • Brandon Metcalf
              Rainer.Stransky@alcatel.de writes: But without a joke. I have to work in a development enviroment, in which all checkouts (in other views, by other guys)
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 1, 2002
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                Rainer.Stransky@... writes:

                '' But without a joke. I have to work in a development enviroment, in which all
                '' checkouts (in other views, by other guys) are locked.
                '' So there is no chance for me to do a small quick change on a source without t
                '' tricky workaoround to get a eclipsed private file by:
                '' mv file.cc file.cc.priv
                '' cleartool co .
                '' cleartool rm file.cc
                '' mv file.cc.priv file.cc
                '' cleartool unco .
                ''
                '' That all will be done in a nice perl scirpt. All guys here in this enviroment
                '' working that way.
                ''
                '' So my warranted question is, how to setup vim (if possible) to avoid losing t
                '' file, by open it with vim6.0

                I realize that doesn't solve your vim problem, but you are creating the
                situation by using a broken workflow. Why do you need to work in a view
                other than your own? That's the whole point of a view; it's supposed to
                be your workspace.

                If you absolutely have to share a view, then make them group writable by
                setting your umask to 002 when the view is created.

                Even if I'm not understanding you correctly, the fact that you are
                using this Perl script to achieve the commands above demonstrates that
                your process is broken.

                Brandon
                --
                And stop calling me Shirley
                --Doctor Rumack, Airplane
              • Gary Johnson
                ... Ditto what Brandon said. We do multiple-developer development all the time without stepping on each other and never have to go through the hoops that you
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 1, 2002
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                  On Fri, Mar 01, 2002 at 12:52:09PM -0600, Brandon Metcalf wrote:

                  > I realize that doesn't solve your vim problem, but you are creating the
                  > situation by using a broken workflow. Why do you need to work in a view
                  > other than your own? That's the whole point of a view; it's supposed to
                  > be your workspace.

                  > Even if I'm not understanding you correctly, the fact that you are
                  > using this Perl script to achieve the commands above demonstrates that
                  > your process is broken.

                  Ditto what Brandon said. We do multiple-developer development all the
                  time without stepping on each other and never have to go through the
                  hoops that you are. If you want to make a quick change to a locked
                  file, check out an unreserved copy until the other guy checks in his
                  changes. If you have multiple people working on the same set of files
                  at the same time, each person should really be checking out each file
                  onto his private branch first. That way the /main/LATEST version is not
                  locked. As each person finishes his changes, he first checks his file
                  into his private branch, then merges any parallel changes from the main
                  branch onto his private branch, fixes anything that broke, and merges
                  the combined changes back to the main branch. ClearCase is designed for
                  just this type of development and used properly it works very well.

                  Gary

                  --
                  Gary Johnson | Agilent Technologies
                  garyjohn@... | Spokane, Washington, USA
                • Michael P. Soulier
                  ... They re forcing us to transition to it at work, and initial trials are not good. They basically said what you did. Mike -- Michael P. Soulier
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 1, 2002
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                    On 01/03/02 Ron Aaron did speaketh:

                    > Ah, ClearCase! Sure, it's expensive, but at least it's slow!!

                    :)

                    They're forcing us to transition to it at work, and initial trials are not
                    good. They basically said what you did.

                    Mike

                    --
                    Michael P. Soulier <msoulier@...>, GnuPG pub key: 5BC8BE08
                    "...the word HACK is used as a verb to indicate a massive amount
                    of nerd-like effort." -Harley Hahn, A Student's Guide to Unix
                  • Ron Aaron
                    ... The problem isn t really Clearcase per-se. The problem is that the dynamic view requires a *lot* of network traffic, and when the network isn t super
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 1, 2002
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                      Michael P. Soulier <michael.soulier@...> writes:
                      >
                      > They're forcing us to transition to it at work, and initial trials are not
                      >good. They basically said what you did.


                      The problem isn't really Clearcase per-se. The problem is that the 'dynamic
                      view' requires a *lot* of network traffic, and when the network isn't super
                      reliable and *very* fast, it doesn't support very many users each with a
                      dynamic view, each doing compiles. At GoXXXXX, where I recently was a victim
                      of downsizing, we had 60 developers banging on our 100MBit network. We *used*
                      to complain that the CVS update was slow. Hah! The *regular build* with
                      Clearcase was three to four times slower, depending on network usage.

                      It's not a bad product, not at all -- just be careful how you use it!

                      Of course now, I would be happy to have a *job*, even one working with
                      Clearcase :-|

                      Best regards,

                      Ron
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