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clearcase eclipsed files are lost

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  • Rainer Stransky
    Hello, i am working in a development enviroment und hp-ux and clearcase. In special cases a file in clearcase has to be made to view private and afterwards
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 28, 2002
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      Hello,

      i am working in a development enviroment und hp-ux and clearcase.

      In special cases a file in clearcase has to be made to view private and afterwards
      this file is eclipsed (in do not exactly know what this means in terms of a file
      system).

      But a ls -l show that all is ok for editing and writing the file

      > ls -l Imakefile
      -rw-rw-r-- 1 stransky ms_e 1735 Mar 1 08:09 Imakefile

      Editing this file with /usr/bin/vi (not a vi clone) work fine.

      Editing this file with vim (6.0), this "eclipsed" file is lost !

      An attempt to write the file, returns the message:
      "Imakefile" E166: Can't open linked file for writing

      The same for opening and closing. The file is lost / removed and afterwards
      the clearcase element as specified in the config spec is seen.

      > ls -l Imakefile
      -r--r--r-- 1 cc-admin ms_e 1728 Apr 25 2001 Imakefile

      > ct ls Imakefile
      Imakefile@@/main/17 Rule: /main/LATEST


      It seems that vim remove/moves the file (for backup or swapfile ?) , what is not
      permitted in this case. Removing or moving the file will reappear the real clearcase
      element in the clearcase file system as the selected version readonly !


      Is there a possibility to avoid such behaviour ?

      Thanks

      Rainer
    • Douglas L . Potts
      ... Hello. I ll try to help you as much as I follow your problem. ... Files get eclipsed in ClearCase based on how your clearcase config spec is setup. That
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 1 5:01 AM
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        On Fri, Mar 01, 2002 at 08:53:40AM +0100 Rainer Stransky wrote:
        > Hello,
        Hello. I'll try to help you as much as I follow your problem.


        > i am working in a development enviroment und hp-ux and clearcase.
        >
        > In special cases a file in clearcase has to be made to view private and afterwards
        > this file is eclipsed (in do not exactly know what this means in terms of a file
        > system).
        Files get eclipsed in ClearCase based on how your clearcase config spec
        is setup. That is the set of rules that determines which particular
        version (on the file's version tree) that you will be operating on.
        Sometimes the config spec can be setup such that a view private file can
        be eclipsed (ie. that particular version is not visible) by a clearcase
        element. Or possibly vise versa.

        With that said, let's try and address your particular problem.

        > But a ls -l show that all is ok for editing and writing the file
        >
        > > ls -l Imakefile
        > -rw-rw-r-- 1 stransky ms_e 1735 Mar 1 08:09 Imakefile
        >
        > Editing this file with /usr/bin/vi (not a vi clone) work fine.
        There have been eariler posts that have indicated some differences in
        behavior of Vim versus vanilla vi in that Vim will try to utilitize ACL
        calls for accessing the file, which may be the explanation for what you
        are experiencing.

        > Editing this file with vim (6.0), this "eclipsed" file is lost !


        > An attempt to write the file, returns the message:
        > "Imakefile" E166: Can't open linked file for writing
        >
        > The same for opening and closing. The file is lost / removed and afterwards
        > the clearcase element as specified in the config spec is seen.
        >
        > > ls -l Imakefile
        > -r--r--r-- 1 cc-admin ms_e 1728 Apr 25 2001 Imakefile
        >
        > > ct ls Imakefile
        > Imakefile@@/main/17 Rule: /main/LATEST
        >
        >
        > It seems that vim remove/moves the file (for backup or swapfile ?) ,
        Vim copies the original file to the backup file, before you begin
        editting, so that the file permissions are kept. But this would only
        happen if you have the 'backup' option turned on.

        > what is not permitted in this case. Removing or moving the file will
        > reappear the real clearcase element in the clearcase file system as
        > the selected version readonly !
        >
        >
        > Is there a possibility to avoid such behaviour ?

        On second thought, maybe we should take this off-line. This is really
        more of a problem with how ClearCase does things, and not vim. I'll
        help as much as I can.

        -Doug

        --
        *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
        Douglas L. Potts
        "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
        temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
        -Benjamin Franklin
        GPG Fingerprint: 768A EEF8 197A 4C9A 5EF7 DA5B 464C 97DF DCD5 68C2
        *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
      • Gary Johnson
        ... [problem discussion deleted] ... I also use ClearCase with HP-UX, so when you two figure this out, would you please post a summary here? Thanks. Gary --
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 1 7:26 AM
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          On Fri, Mar 01, 2002 at 08:01:18AM -0500, Douglas L . Potts wrote:
          > On Fri, Mar 01, 2002 at 08:53:40AM +0100 Rainer Stransky wrote:

          > > i am working in a development enviroment und hp-ux and clearcase.

          [problem discussion deleted]

          > On second thought, maybe we should take this off-line. This is really
          > more of a problem with how ClearCase does things, and not vim. I'll
          > help as much as I can.

          I also use ClearCase with HP-UX, so when you two figure this out, would
          you please post a summary here? Thanks.

          Gary

          --
          Gary Johnson | Agilent Technologies
          garyjohn@... | Spokane, Washington, USA
        • Ron Aaron
          ... And I also had problems w/ ClearCase. Ah, ClearCase! Sure, it s expensive, but at least it s slow!!
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 1 8:23 AM
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            Gary Johnson <garyjohn@...> writes:
            >
            >I also use ClearCase with HP-UX, so when you two figure this out, would
            >you please post a summary here? Thanks.
            >

            And I also had problems w/ ClearCase.

            Ah, ClearCase! Sure, it's expensive, but at least it's slow!!
          • Brandon Metcalf
            ... There is no reason in ClearCase to intentionally eclipse a file element or to have one eclipsed to have write access. If you are getting eclipsed
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 1 8:53 AM
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              Rainer.Stransky@... writes:

              || i am working in a development enviroment und hp-ux and clearcase.
              ||
              || In special cases a file in clearcase has to be made to view private and after
              || this file is eclipsed (in do not exactly know what this means in terms of a f
              || system).

              There is no reason in ClearCase to intentionally eclipse a file element
              or to have one eclipsed to have write access. If you are getting
              eclipsed elements, you are doing something wrong.

              Write access to elements is achieved by checking out the element which
              gives you a view private file, but doesn't eclipse anything.

              Brandon
              --
              And stop calling me Shirley
              --Doctor Rumack, Airplane
            • Rainer Stransky
              ... Thanks, that helps me a lot. But without a joke. I have to work in a development enviroment, in which all checkouts (in other views, by other guys) are
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 1 10:40 AM
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                Brandon Metcalf wrote:

                > Rainer.Stransky@... writes:
                >
                > || i am working in a development enviroment und hp-ux and clearcase.
                > ||
                > || In special cases a file in clearcase has to be made to view private and after
                > || this file is eclipsed (in do not exactly know what this means in terms of a f
                > || system).
                >
                > There is no reason in ClearCase to intentionally eclipse a file element
                > or to have one eclipsed to have write access. If you are getting
                > eclipsed elements, you are doing something wrong.
                >
                > Write access to elements is achieved by checking out the element which
                > gives you a view private file, but doesn't eclipse anything.
                >

                Thanks, that helps me a lot.

                But without a joke. I have to work in a development enviroment, in which all
                checkouts (in other views, by other guys) are locked.
                So there is no chance for me to do a small quick change on a source without that
                tricky workaoround to get a eclipsed private file by:
                mv file.cc file.cc.priv
                cleartool co .
                cleartool rm file.cc
                mv file.cc.priv file.cc
                cleartool unco .

                That all will be done in a nice perl scirpt. All guys here in this enviroment are
                working that way.

                So my warranted question is, how to setup vim (if possible) to avoid losing the
                file, by open it with vim6.0

                I am not sure, but i think that behaviour was another one with vim5.4 !?

                Rainer

                >
                > Brandon
                > --
                > And stop calling me Shirley
                > --Doctor Rumack, Airplane
              • Brandon Metcalf
                Rainer.Stransky@alcatel.de writes: But without a joke. I have to work in a development enviroment, in which all checkouts (in other views, by other guys)
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 1 10:52 AM
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                  Rainer.Stransky@... writes:

                  '' But without a joke. I have to work in a development enviroment, in which all
                  '' checkouts (in other views, by other guys) are locked.
                  '' So there is no chance for me to do a small quick change on a source without t
                  '' tricky workaoround to get a eclipsed private file by:
                  '' mv file.cc file.cc.priv
                  '' cleartool co .
                  '' cleartool rm file.cc
                  '' mv file.cc.priv file.cc
                  '' cleartool unco .
                  ''
                  '' That all will be done in a nice perl scirpt. All guys here in this enviroment
                  '' working that way.
                  ''
                  '' So my warranted question is, how to setup vim (if possible) to avoid losing t
                  '' file, by open it with vim6.0

                  I realize that doesn't solve your vim problem, but you are creating the
                  situation by using a broken workflow. Why do you need to work in a view
                  other than your own? That's the whole point of a view; it's supposed to
                  be your workspace.

                  If you absolutely have to share a view, then make them group writable by
                  setting your umask to 002 when the view is created.

                  Even if I'm not understanding you correctly, the fact that you are
                  using this Perl script to achieve the commands above demonstrates that
                  your process is broken.

                  Brandon
                  --
                  And stop calling me Shirley
                  --Doctor Rumack, Airplane
                • Gary Johnson
                  ... Ditto what Brandon said. We do multiple-developer development all the time without stepping on each other and never have to go through the hoops that you
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 1 11:37 AM
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                    On Fri, Mar 01, 2002 at 12:52:09PM -0600, Brandon Metcalf wrote:

                    > I realize that doesn't solve your vim problem, but you are creating the
                    > situation by using a broken workflow. Why do you need to work in a view
                    > other than your own? That's the whole point of a view; it's supposed to
                    > be your workspace.

                    > Even if I'm not understanding you correctly, the fact that you are
                    > using this Perl script to achieve the commands above demonstrates that
                    > your process is broken.

                    Ditto what Brandon said. We do multiple-developer development all the
                    time without stepping on each other and never have to go through the
                    hoops that you are. If you want to make a quick change to a locked
                    file, check out an unreserved copy until the other guy checks in his
                    changes. If you have multiple people working on the same set of files
                    at the same time, each person should really be checking out each file
                    onto his private branch first. That way the /main/LATEST version is not
                    locked. As each person finishes his changes, he first checks his file
                    into his private branch, then merges any parallel changes from the main
                    branch onto his private branch, fixes anything that broke, and merges
                    the combined changes back to the main branch. ClearCase is designed for
                    just this type of development and used properly it works very well.

                    Gary

                    --
                    Gary Johnson | Agilent Technologies
                    garyjohn@... | Spokane, Washington, USA
                  • Michael P. Soulier
                    ... They re forcing us to transition to it at work, and initial trials are not good. They basically said what you did. Mike -- Michael P. Soulier
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 1 4:18 PM
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                      On 01/03/02 Ron Aaron did speaketh:

                      > Ah, ClearCase! Sure, it's expensive, but at least it's slow!!

                      :)

                      They're forcing us to transition to it at work, and initial trials are not
                      good. They basically said what you did.

                      Mike

                      --
                      Michael P. Soulier <msoulier@...>, GnuPG pub key: 5BC8BE08
                      "...the word HACK is used as a verb to indicate a massive amount
                      of nerd-like effort." -Harley Hahn, A Student's Guide to Unix
                    • Ron Aaron
                      ... The problem isn t really Clearcase per-se. The problem is that the dynamic view requires a *lot* of network traffic, and when the network isn t super
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 1 4:57 PM
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                        Michael P. Soulier <michael.soulier@...> writes:
                        >
                        > They're forcing us to transition to it at work, and initial trials are not
                        >good. They basically said what you did.


                        The problem isn't really Clearcase per-se. The problem is that the 'dynamic
                        view' requires a *lot* of network traffic, and when the network isn't super
                        reliable and *very* fast, it doesn't support very many users each with a
                        dynamic view, each doing compiles. At GoXXXXX, where I recently was a victim
                        of downsizing, we had 60 developers banging on our 100MBit network. We *used*
                        to complain that the CVS update was slow. Hah! The *regular build* with
                        Clearcase was three to four times slower, depending on network usage.

                        It's not a bad product, not at all -- just be careful how you use it!

                        Of course now, I would be happy to have a *job*, even one working with
                        Clearcase :-|

                        Best regards,

                        Ron
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