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Re: Vim wiki editable by git

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  • Ben Fritz
    ... I d never use such a document, unless I stumbled across it in a web search. I will probably continue to get plugins (when I need them) from searching the
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 24, 2013
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      On Sunday, February 24, 2013 5:34:48 PM UTC-6, MarcWeber wrote:
      > As you all know I wrote VAM to solve a problem: Vim plugins
      >
      > distribution.
      >
      >
      >
      > The Vim community suffers from a second problem:
      >
      > There are many plugins - some are outdated - and its sometimes hard to
      >
      > find the "jewels" - because they may be hosted on github only.
      >
      > There is a wiki, but its not integrated in the main site - neither is it
      >
      > easy for external people to hack on it just using what they know best:
      >
      > "Vim" (right?)
      >
      >
      >
      > For this reason I'd like to start a wiki like text file based git
      >
      > repository which summarizes the most useful tools (and maybe
      >
      > alternatives) so that people who want to find answers about:
      >
      > "How to I most efficiently code xy" or do "z".
      >
      >
      >
      > Of course vim help files come to mind, they already support links and
      >
      > code blocks - and there are existing tools to turn them into HTML
      >
      > (so that the contents can be pushed to www.vim.org one day) - still
      >
      > markup is little bit limited.
      >
      >
      >
      > Are there alternatives you'd choose for such an effort which can be
      >
      > translated to HTML easily and which can be edited and read by Vim, too?
      >
      >
      >
      > Also would you be interested in joining and helping maintain such a
      >
      > git based wiki?
      >
      >
      >
      > Its not about writing comprehensive documentation, rather about creating
      >
      > an index about which tools are known to solve a problem. This can be
      >
      > completion, configuration, running a compiler and more.
      >
      >
      >
      > Feedback about this idea and ideas are welcome.
      >
      > Marc Weber

      I'd never use such a document, unless I stumbled across it in a web search.

      I will probably continue to get plugins (when I need them) from searching the web, seeing recommendations on this list, and seeing mentions on #vim on Freenode.

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    • Jeroen Budts
      ... Hash: SHA256 ... Vimwiki immediately comes to my mind. It has nice syntax highlighting in Vim; supports most common markup such as bold, italic, 6 (?)
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 25, 2013
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        -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
        Hash: SHA256

        On 02/25/2013 12:34 AM, Marc Weber wrote:
        > As you all know I wrote VAM to solve a problem: Vim plugins
        > distribution.
        >
        > The Vim community suffers from a second problem: There are many
        > plugins - some are outdated - and its sometimes hard to find the
        > "jewels" - because they may be hosted on github only. There is a
        > wiki, but its not integrated in the main site - neither is it easy
        > for external people to hack on it just using what they know best:
        > "Vim" (right?)
        >
        > For this reason I'd like to start a wiki like text file based git
        > repository which summarizes the most useful tools (and maybe
        > alternatives) so that people who want to find answers about: "How
        > to I most efficiently code xy" or do "z".
        >
        > Of course vim help files come to mind, they already support links
        > and code blocks - and there are existing tools to turn them into
        > HTML (so that the contents can be pushed to www.vim.org one day) -
        > still markup is little bit limited.
        >
        > Are there alternatives you'd choose for such an effort which can
        > be translated to HTML easily and which can be edited and read by
        > Vim, too?
        >
        > Also would you be interested in joining and helping maintain such
        > a git based wiki?
        >
        > Its not about writing comprehensive documentation, rather about
        > creating an index about which tools are known to solve a problem.
        > This can be completion, configuration, running a compiler and
        > more.
        >
        > Feedback about this idea and ideas are welcome. Marc Weber
        >
        Vimwiki immediately comes to my mind. It has nice syntax highlighting in
        Vim; supports most common markup such as bold, italic, 6 (?) levels of
        headers, quotes, lists, code blocks etc; It also supports linking to
        other pages, to external pages, to pages in other wiki's, to files etc.
        Vimwiki supports multiple syntaxes (default, markup, wikipedia). When
        using the default syntax you can easily export the entire wiki to HTML.
        It also let's you use your custom html template for that.
        I have been using vimwiki for a few years now to take notes and I really
        like how easy it is. Although I don't export to HTML, since I always
        read it in Vim.

        http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2226

        Jeroen


        - --
        website: http://budts.be/ - twitter: @teranex
        ___________________________________
        Registered Linux User #482240 - GetFirefox.com - ubuntu.com



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      • Eric Weir
        ... When I am in vim I am mostly in vimwiki. One revelation of working with it has been that, at least in it, I can get along with just one folder. The key to
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 25, 2013
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          On Feb 25, 2013, at 3:17 AM, Jeroen Budts wrote:

          > I have been using vimwiki for a few years now to take notes and I really
          > like how easy it is. Although I don't export to HTML, since I always
          > read it in Vim.
          >
          > http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2226

          When I am in vim I am mostly in vimwiki.

          One revelation of working with it has been that, at least in it, I can get along with just one folder. The key to that is the hypertext linking it provides. Previously I had relied on an elaborate file system evolved practically from my beginning to work with computers.

          That, of course, is with my own writing, and only with exploratory or unformatted part of it. With other people's documents ort my own finished work I still rely on the file system.

          Regards,
          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Eric Weir
          eeweir@...

          β€œOn the basis of evidence we may be sure that we are wrong
          but we can never be sure that we are right.” - Richard Feynman

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        • Marc Weber
          I ve just started the effort: https://github.com/MarcWeber/vim-git-wiki Join, contribute and provide feedback. If everybody only adds information about what
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 25, 2013
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            I've just started the effort:
            https://github.com/MarcWeber/vim-git-wiki

            Join, contribute and provide feedback. If everybody only adds
            information about what he/she knows best we'll have the greatest
            resource very fast. Then its time to put it online at www.vim.org if
            Bram agrees (I guess he will).

            Marc Weber

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          • Eric Weir
            ... Should work. But how will you insure that it doesn t become just another complete, unselective collection, i.e., that only the best,plugins are included?
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 25, 2013
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              On Feb 25, 2013, at 9:35 AM, Marc Weber <marco-oweber@...> wrote:

              > If everybody only adds
              > information about what he/she knows best we'll have the greatest
              > resource very fast.

              Should work. But how will you insure that it doesn't become just another complete, unselective collection, i.e., that only the best,plugins are included?

              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Eric Weir
              Decatur, GA. USA

              "The invincible shield of caring
              is a weapon from the sky
              against being dead."

              – Tao Te Ching, 67

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            • glts
              Hi Marc I made my own list of popular plugins recently. My approach was less wiki, more wikimatrix.org . Maybe you can find some useful ideas in there:
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 26, 2013
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                Hi Marc

                I made my own list of popular plugins recently. My approach was less
                wiki, more "wikimatrix.org". Maybe you can find some useful ideas in
                there:

                http://glts.github.com/VimPluginMatrix/

                Cheers, glts

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              • Marc Weber
                ... You re welcome to join and contribute. In which way does your list differ from what www.vim.org provides? Example: does it tell me why you starred pathogen
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 26, 2013
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                  > http://glts.github.com/VimPluginMatrix/
                  You're welcome to join and contribute. In which way does your list
                  differ from what www.vim.org provides?

                  Example: does it tell me why you starred pathogen and not Vundle or VAM
                  (using plugin management filter?)

                  You have both in the list: YouCompleteMe and neocomplcache - which one
                  do you use for what reason?

                  I think this is the information users are looking for.

                  I don't understand what PnP means. Probably you mean viml only - no need
                  to compile vim with python or external tools?

                  Marc Weber

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                • glts
                  Oh, it s just a personal list, something I could point a newcomer to. If you take a look at wikimatrix.org : I think that s an excellent format, lots of
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 26, 2013
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                    Oh, it's just a personal list, something I could point a newcomer to. If
                    you take a look at "wikimatrix.org": I think that's an excellent format,
                    lots of tabular data points that you can compare directly with one
                    another.

                    I just tried to emulate that format in a primitive way. The date should
                    give some indication whether development is active, the "plug-and-play"
                    tick should tell you if you can just unzip/git clone and don't need
                    external dependencies/config, etc.

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                  • Marc Weber
                    ... Which says nothing. Again - why do you prefer pathogen over the others? Why is it starred? That s why your list is useless. My goal is a guide like this: A
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 27, 2013
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                      Excerpts from glts's message of Tue Feb 26 22:15:55 +0100 2013:
                      > Oh, it's just a personal list, something I could point a newcomer to. If
                      > you take a look at "wikimatrix.org": I think that's an excellent format,
                      > lots of tabular data points that you can compare directly with one
                      > another.
                      Which says nothing. Again - why do you prefer pathogen over the others?
                      Why is it starred? That's why your list is useless.

                      My goal is a guide like this:

                      A lot of people prefer X for this reason, others prefer Y for that
                      reason. Then people know which solution to choose and why without trying
                      everything and the kitchen sink.

                      Marc Weber

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                    • Antony Scriven
                      ... I agree there s a problem. I think vim.org could do with some modernising. ... A wiki is a great idea. And they maintain themselves, courtesy of those who
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 28, 2013
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                        On 24 February 2013 23:34, Marc Weber wrote:

                        > As you all know I wrote VAM to solve a problem: Vim plugins
                        > distribution.
                        >
                        > The Vim community suffers from a second problem: There
                        > are many plugins - some are outdated - and its sometimes
                        > hard to find the "jewels" - because they may be hosted on
                        > github only. There is a wiki, but its not integrated in
                        > the main site - neither is it easy for external people to
                        > hack on it just using what they know best: "Vim" (right?)
                        >
                        > For this reason I'd like to start a wiki like text file
                        > based git repository which summarizes the most useful
                        > tools (and maybe alternatives) so that people who want to
                        > find answers about: "How to I most efficiently code xy"
                        > or do "z".
                        >
                        > [...]

                        I agree there's a problem. I think vim.org could do with
                        some modernising.

                        > Also would you be interested in joining and helping
                        > maintain such a git based wiki?

                        A wiki is a great idea. And they maintain themselves,
                        courtesy of those who give a shit. I think it should be on
                        vim.org though (I realise this is your ultimate intent too).

                        > Its not about writing comprehensive documentation, rather
                        > about creating an index about which tools are known to
                        > solve a problem. This can be completion, configuration,
                        > running a compiler and more.

                        Agreed. These questions come up *a lot*, and finding the
                        answers with Google is surprisingly difficult. What you get
                        are blog posts saying 'you can hack foo integration into Vim
                        with these custom mappings which happen to rely on custom
                        program x which is in my environment but you'll have to
                        compile it from source ...,' etc.

                        This isn't a criticism: because Vim is so customisable,
                        people can easily whip up their own systems which solve the
                        problem at hand but aren't always helpful for the beginner
                        (or seasoned professional!) trying to learn Python, for
                        example.

                        The current state of affairs is quite fragmented.
                        There's vim.org, the mailing list, the Vim tips wiki,
                        scripts on vim.org, other scripts on Github, discussion on
                        #vim, many questions on Stack Overflow .... Where to look?

                        Certainly I think the scripts section on vim.org needs
                        a thorough revamp.

                        > Feedback about this idea and ideas are welcome.

                        Well, I also think that vim.org would benefit from
                        a chatroom, Stack Overflow style. I've no doubt it
                        would be popular among new users of Vim. #vim has
                        loads of new users asking questions, and who uses IRC
                        these days? :-)

                        I think, given the enduring popularity of Vim, it needs
                        a centralised resource.

                        --Antony

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                      • Marc Weber
                        ... But that s not solved by a wiki - compiling from source is always work. Its only solved by source friendly distributions like gentoo or nixos. ... Stack
                        Message 11 of 13 , Mar 1 3:06 AM
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                          > with these custom mappings which happen to rely on custom
                          > program x which is in my environment but you'll have to
                          > compile it from source ...,' etc.
                          But that's not solved by a wiki - compiling from source is always work.
                          Its only solved by source friendly distributions like gentoo or
                          nixos.

                          > Well, I also think that vim.org would benefit from
                          > a chatroom, Stack Overflow style.
                          Stack Overflow is already being used.
                          http://webchat.freenode.net/
                          Information about how to use that

                          > loads of new users asking questions, and who uses IRC
                          > these days? :-)
                          Many people, join and see yourself.

                          > I think, given the enduring popularity of Vim, it needs
                          > a centralised resource.
                          Rewriting Vim is out of my scope - I've had plans to do so for months.
                          So I try to apply 20/80 rule again.

                          Thanks for joining and contributing ideas. A short irc howto is already
                          there now.

                          Marc Weber

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