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Re: Vim wiki editable by git

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  • ping
    ... I think this is a great idea!! can save people s a lot time when seeking for the best plugins to do a certain kind of work. I think we can call it a vim
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 24, 2013
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      On 2/24/2013 6:34 PM, Marc Weber wrote:
      > As you all know I wrote VAM to solve a problem: Vim plugins
      > distribution.
      >
      > The Vim community suffers from a second problem:
      > There are many plugins - some are outdated - and its sometimes hard to
      > find the "jewels" - because they may be hosted on github only.
      > There is a wiki, but its not integrated in the main site - neither is it
      > easy for external people to hack on it just using what they know best:
      > "Vim" (right?)
      >
      > For this reason I'd like to start a wiki like text file based git
      > repository which summarizes the most useful tools (and maybe
      > alternatives) so that people who want to find answers about:
      > "How to I most efficiently code xy" or do "z".
      >
      > Of course vim help files come to mind, they already support links and
      > code blocks - and there are existing tools to turn them into HTML
      > (so that the contents can be pushed to www.vim.org one day) - still
      > markup is little bit limited.
      >
      > Are there alternatives you'd choose for such an effort which can be
      > translated to HTML easily and which can be edited and read by Vim, too?
      >
      > Also would you be interested in joining and helping maintain such a
      > git based wiki?
      >
      > Its not about writing comprehensive documentation, rather about creating
      > an index about which tools are known to solve a problem. This can be
      > completion, configuration, running a compiler and more.
      >
      > Feedback about this idea and ideas are welcome.
      > Marc Weber
      >
      I think this is a great idea!!
      can save people's a lot time when seeking for the "best plugins" to do a
      certain kind of work.
      I think we can call it a "vim best practice" project :)

      regards
      ping

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    • Ben Fritz
      ... I d never use such a document, unless I stumbled across it in a web search. I will probably continue to get plugins (when I need them) from searching the
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 24, 2013
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        On Sunday, February 24, 2013 5:34:48 PM UTC-6, MarcWeber wrote:
        > As you all know I wrote VAM to solve a problem: Vim plugins
        >
        > distribution.
        >
        >
        >
        > The Vim community suffers from a second problem:
        >
        > There are many plugins - some are outdated - and its sometimes hard to
        >
        > find the "jewels" - because they may be hosted on github only.
        >
        > There is a wiki, but its not integrated in the main site - neither is it
        >
        > easy for external people to hack on it just using what they know best:
        >
        > "Vim" (right?)
        >
        >
        >
        > For this reason I'd like to start a wiki like text file based git
        >
        > repository which summarizes the most useful tools (and maybe
        >
        > alternatives) so that people who want to find answers about:
        >
        > "How to I most efficiently code xy" or do "z".
        >
        >
        >
        > Of course vim help files come to mind, they already support links and
        >
        > code blocks - and there are existing tools to turn them into HTML
        >
        > (so that the contents can be pushed to www.vim.org one day) - still
        >
        > markup is little bit limited.
        >
        >
        >
        > Are there alternatives you'd choose for such an effort which can be
        >
        > translated to HTML easily and which can be edited and read by Vim, too?
        >
        >
        >
        > Also would you be interested in joining and helping maintain such a
        >
        > git based wiki?
        >
        >
        >
        > Its not about writing comprehensive documentation, rather about creating
        >
        > an index about which tools are known to solve a problem. This can be
        >
        > completion, configuration, running a compiler and more.
        >
        >
        >
        > Feedback about this idea and ideas are welcome.
        >
        > Marc Weber

        I'd never use such a document, unless I stumbled across it in a web search.

        I will probably continue to get plugins (when I need them) from searching the web, seeing recommendations on this list, and seeing mentions on #vim on Freenode.

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      • Jeroen Budts
        ... Hash: SHA256 ... Vimwiki immediately comes to my mind. It has nice syntax highlighting in Vim; supports most common markup such as bold, italic, 6 (?)
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 25, 2013
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          -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
          Hash: SHA256

          On 02/25/2013 12:34 AM, Marc Weber wrote:
          > As you all know I wrote VAM to solve a problem: Vim plugins
          > distribution.
          >
          > The Vim community suffers from a second problem: There are many
          > plugins - some are outdated - and its sometimes hard to find the
          > "jewels" - because they may be hosted on github only. There is a
          > wiki, but its not integrated in the main site - neither is it easy
          > for external people to hack on it just using what they know best:
          > "Vim" (right?)
          >
          > For this reason I'd like to start a wiki like text file based git
          > repository which summarizes the most useful tools (and maybe
          > alternatives) so that people who want to find answers about: "How
          > to I most efficiently code xy" or do "z".
          >
          > Of course vim help files come to mind, they already support links
          > and code blocks - and there are existing tools to turn them into
          > HTML (so that the contents can be pushed to www.vim.org one day) -
          > still markup is little bit limited.
          >
          > Are there alternatives you'd choose for such an effort which can
          > be translated to HTML easily and which can be edited and read by
          > Vim, too?
          >
          > Also would you be interested in joining and helping maintain such
          > a git based wiki?
          >
          > Its not about writing comprehensive documentation, rather about
          > creating an index about which tools are known to solve a problem.
          > This can be completion, configuration, running a compiler and
          > more.
          >
          > Feedback about this idea and ideas are welcome. Marc Weber
          >
          Vimwiki immediately comes to my mind. It has nice syntax highlighting in
          Vim; supports most common markup such as bold, italic, 6 (?) levels of
          headers, quotes, lists, code blocks etc; It also supports linking to
          other pages, to external pages, to pages in other wiki's, to files etc.
          Vimwiki supports multiple syntaxes (default, markup, wikipedia). When
          using the default syntax you can easily export the entire wiki to HTML.
          It also let's you use your custom html template for that.
          I have been using vimwiki for a few years now to take notes and I really
          like how easy it is. Although I don't export to HTML, since I always
          read it in Vim.

          http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2226

          Jeroen


          - --
          website: http://budts.be/ - twitter: @teranex
          ___________________________________
          Registered Linux User #482240 - GetFirefox.com - ubuntu.com



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        • Eric Weir
          ... When I am in vim I am mostly in vimwiki. One revelation of working with it has been that, at least in it, I can get along with just one folder. The key to
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 25, 2013
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            On Feb 25, 2013, at 3:17 AM, Jeroen Budts wrote:

            > I have been using vimwiki for a few years now to take notes and I really
            > like how easy it is. Although I don't export to HTML, since I always
            > read it in Vim.
            >
            > http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2226

            When I am in vim I am mostly in vimwiki.

            One revelation of working with it has been that, at least in it, I can get along with just one folder. The key to that is the hypertext linking it provides. Previously I had relied on an elaborate file system evolved practically from my beginning to work with computers.

            That, of course, is with my own writing, and only with exploratory or unformatted part of it. With other people's documents ort my own finished work I still rely on the file system.

            Regards,
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Eric Weir
            eeweir@...

            β€œOn the basis of evidence we may be sure that we are wrong
            but we can never be sure that we are right.” - Richard Feynman

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          • Marc Weber
            I ve just started the effort: https://github.com/MarcWeber/vim-git-wiki Join, contribute and provide feedback. If everybody only adds information about what
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 25, 2013
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              I've just started the effort:
              https://github.com/MarcWeber/vim-git-wiki

              Join, contribute and provide feedback. If everybody only adds
              information about what he/she knows best we'll have the greatest
              resource very fast. Then its time to put it online at www.vim.org if
              Bram agrees (I guess he will).

              Marc Weber

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            • Eric Weir
              ... Should work. But how will you insure that it doesn t become just another complete, unselective collection, i.e., that only the best,plugins are included?
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 25, 2013
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                On Feb 25, 2013, at 9:35 AM, Marc Weber <marco-oweber@...> wrote:

                > If everybody only adds
                > information about what he/she knows best we'll have the greatest
                > resource very fast.

                Should work. But how will you insure that it doesn't become just another complete, unselective collection, i.e., that only the best,plugins are included?

                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                Eric Weir
                Decatur, GA. USA

                "The invincible shield of caring
                is a weapon from the sky
                against being dead."

                – Tao Te Ching, 67

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              • glts
                Hi Marc I made my own list of popular plugins recently. My approach was less wiki, more wikimatrix.org . Maybe you can find some useful ideas in there:
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 26, 2013
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                  Hi Marc

                  I made my own list of popular plugins recently. My approach was less
                  wiki, more "wikimatrix.org". Maybe you can find some useful ideas in
                  there:

                  http://glts.github.com/VimPluginMatrix/

                  Cheers, glts

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                • Marc Weber
                  ... You re welcome to join and contribute. In which way does your list differ from what www.vim.org provides? Example: does it tell me why you starred pathogen
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 26, 2013
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                    > http://glts.github.com/VimPluginMatrix/
                    You're welcome to join and contribute. In which way does your list
                    differ from what www.vim.org provides?

                    Example: does it tell me why you starred pathogen and not Vundle or VAM
                    (using plugin management filter?)

                    You have both in the list: YouCompleteMe and neocomplcache - which one
                    do you use for what reason?

                    I think this is the information users are looking for.

                    I don't understand what PnP means. Probably you mean viml only - no need
                    to compile vim with python or external tools?

                    Marc Weber

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                  • glts
                    Oh, it s just a personal list, something I could point a newcomer to. If you take a look at wikimatrix.org : I think that s an excellent format, lots of
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 26, 2013
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                      Oh, it's just a personal list, something I could point a newcomer to. If
                      you take a look at "wikimatrix.org": I think that's an excellent format,
                      lots of tabular data points that you can compare directly with one
                      another.

                      I just tried to emulate that format in a primitive way. The date should
                      give some indication whether development is active, the "plug-and-play"
                      tick should tell you if you can just unzip/git clone and don't need
                      external dependencies/config, etc.

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                    • Marc Weber
                      ... Which says nothing. Again - why do you prefer pathogen over the others? Why is it starred? That s why your list is useless. My goal is a guide like this: A
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 27, 2013
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                        Excerpts from glts's message of Tue Feb 26 22:15:55 +0100 2013:
                        > Oh, it's just a personal list, something I could point a newcomer to. If
                        > you take a look at "wikimatrix.org": I think that's an excellent format,
                        > lots of tabular data points that you can compare directly with one
                        > another.
                        Which says nothing. Again - why do you prefer pathogen over the others?
                        Why is it starred? That's why your list is useless.

                        My goal is a guide like this:

                        A lot of people prefer X for this reason, others prefer Y for that
                        reason. Then people know which solution to choose and why without trying
                        everything and the kitchen sink.

                        Marc Weber

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                      • Antony Scriven
                        ... I agree there s a problem. I think vim.org could do with some modernising. ... A wiki is a great idea. And they maintain themselves, courtesy of those who
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 28, 2013
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                          On 24 February 2013 23:34, Marc Weber wrote:

                          > As you all know I wrote VAM to solve a problem: Vim plugins
                          > distribution.
                          >
                          > The Vim community suffers from a second problem: There
                          > are many plugins - some are outdated - and its sometimes
                          > hard to find the "jewels" - because they may be hosted on
                          > github only. There is a wiki, but its not integrated in
                          > the main site - neither is it easy for external people to
                          > hack on it just using what they know best: "Vim" (right?)
                          >
                          > For this reason I'd like to start a wiki like text file
                          > based git repository which summarizes the most useful
                          > tools (and maybe alternatives) so that people who want to
                          > find answers about: "How to I most efficiently code xy"
                          > or do "z".
                          >
                          > [...]

                          I agree there's a problem. I think vim.org could do with
                          some modernising.

                          > Also would you be interested in joining and helping
                          > maintain such a git based wiki?

                          A wiki is a great idea. And they maintain themselves,
                          courtesy of those who give a shit. I think it should be on
                          vim.org though (I realise this is your ultimate intent too).

                          > Its not about writing comprehensive documentation, rather
                          > about creating an index about which tools are known to
                          > solve a problem. This can be completion, configuration,
                          > running a compiler and more.

                          Agreed. These questions come up *a lot*, and finding the
                          answers with Google is surprisingly difficult. What you get
                          are blog posts saying 'you can hack foo integration into Vim
                          with these custom mappings which happen to rely on custom
                          program x which is in my environment but you'll have to
                          compile it from source ...,' etc.

                          This isn't a criticism: because Vim is so customisable,
                          people can easily whip up their own systems which solve the
                          problem at hand but aren't always helpful for the beginner
                          (or seasoned professional!) trying to learn Python, for
                          example.

                          The current state of affairs is quite fragmented.
                          There's vim.org, the mailing list, the Vim tips wiki,
                          scripts on vim.org, other scripts on Github, discussion on
                          #vim, many questions on Stack Overflow .... Where to look?

                          Certainly I think the scripts section on vim.org needs
                          a thorough revamp.

                          > Feedback about this idea and ideas are welcome.

                          Well, I also think that vim.org would benefit from
                          a chatroom, Stack Overflow style. I've no doubt it
                          would be popular among new users of Vim. #vim has
                          loads of new users asking questions, and who uses IRC
                          these days? :-)

                          I think, given the enduring popularity of Vim, it needs
                          a centralised resource.

                          --Antony

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                        • Marc Weber
                          ... But that s not solved by a wiki - compiling from source is always work. Its only solved by source friendly distributions like gentoo or nixos. ... Stack
                          Message 12 of 13 , Mar 1 3:06 AM
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                            > with these custom mappings which happen to rely on custom
                            > program x which is in my environment but you'll have to
                            > compile it from source ...,' etc.
                            But that's not solved by a wiki - compiling from source is always work.
                            Its only solved by source friendly distributions like gentoo or
                            nixos.

                            > Well, I also think that vim.org would benefit from
                            > a chatroom, Stack Overflow style.
                            Stack Overflow is already being used.
                            http://webchat.freenode.net/
                            Information about how to use that

                            > loads of new users asking questions, and who uses IRC
                            > these days? :-)
                            Many people, join and see yourself.

                            > I think, given the enduring popularity of Vim, it needs
                            > a centralised resource.
                            Rewriting Vim is out of my scope - I've had plans to do so for months.
                            So I try to apply 20/80 rule again.

                            Thanks for joining and contributing ideas. A short irc howto is already
                            there now.

                            Marc Weber

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