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Announcement : http://vim.begin-site.org/ - The Vim Beginners' Site

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  • Shlomi Fish
    Hi all, I would like to announce that today I started working on http://vim.begin-site.org/ - the Vim Beginners’ Site, which is a static site generated by
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 26, 2012
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      Hi all,

      I would like to announce that today I started working on
      http://vim.begin-site.org/ - the Vim Beginners’ Site, which is a static site
      generated by the Jekyll offline CMS (which I learned today, after finding a
      post of someone who converted his site from XML+XSLT to it, as I considered
      using XSLT first). Currently many links are broken and the content is
      incomplete, but:

      1. The site's source code is open-source / open-content (MIT/X11 | CC-by ).

      2. One can easily contribute to it:

      * http://vim.begin-site.org/contribute/

      * http://vim.begin-site.org/source/ - points to the BitBucket repo.

      3. I'm noting ideas for resources here:

      *
      https://bitbucket.org/shlomif/vim-begin/src/131c08549754e47c0ccf3cbdf202e6b6c0300172/vim-begin/jekyll-prototype/TODO.txt?at=default

      (short URL - http://is.gd/WtjpJE ).

      4. I'm planning to continue working on it myself.

      ---

      The inspiration for the site is http://perl-begin.org/ , which I also created
      and still maintain. I registered the begin-site.org and begin-site.com domains
      to serve as placeholders for more sites like that, and will be happy to refer
      their sub-domains to similar sites (e.g: c.begin-site.org , cpp.begin-site.org ,
      clojure.begin-site.org , python.begin-site.org , emacs.begin-site.org ,
      cooking.begin-site.org , etc.).

      Some people on IRC told me there was a genuine need for a site like that about
      Vim, and since I like Vim so much I decided to go for it.

      Enjoy, and I hope to see you contributing.

      Regards,

      Shlomi Fish

      P.S: while they are still not there, I am planning on putting some 100%
      non-intrusive non-animated images
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Wonderful ads on the site, similar to
      what I have on http://www.shlomifish.org/ . I hope you will not be too offended
      by them, but you can use an ad blocker, or alternatively set up a mirror of the
      site under a different domain, without the ads. So I think it is fair, given
      that I pay for the domain and the hosting.

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    • Marc Weber
      great: we all can contribute you should mention why you have chosen to start a new site rather than using the existing wiki - and why you want to limit the
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 26, 2012
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        great:
        we all can contribute

        you should mention why you have chosen to start a new site rather than
        using the existing wiki - and why you want to limit the "contributable
        page" to "beginners".

        I've had the idea to start something similar, store all the contents in
        a git repo all users can access and contribute to, which is that similar
        to text that you can also read/grep/edit with vim.

        Moreover the idea I had also included managing plugins by VCS repository
        url - so that the www.vim.org implementation could be replaced one day.

        If you're interested in those goals to I'll point you to our document to
        which we've written our ideas (me and garbas that time).

        I don't think Vim needs yet another page - it needs one which can be
        contributed to by users easily.

        However its only my personal opinion.

        Yours
        Marc Weber

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      • Shlomi Fish
        Hi Mr. Weber, On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 00:42:32 +0100 ... Which contributable page ? In any case, while the wiki is a useful resource, as some people told me on
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 26, 2012
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          Hi Mr. Weber,

          On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 00:42:32 +0100
          Marc Weber <marco-oweber@...> wrote:

          > great:
          > we all can contribute
          >
          > you should mention why you have chosen to start a new site rather than
          > using the existing wiki - and why you want to limit the "contributable
          > page" to "beginners".

          Which "contributable page"? In any case, while the wiki is a useful resource,
          as some people told me on IRC:

          <<<
          the vim wiki is a mess, the help is too hard to navigate for
          newcomers
          >>>

          Another problem with the wiki is that being hosted on Wikia, there are some
          intrusive ads by default.

          >
          > I've had the idea to start something similar, store all the contents in
          > a git repo all users can access and contribute to, which is that similar
          > to text that you can also read/grep/edit with vim.

          I store all the contents in a repository too - only in my case it is Mercurial
          and not git (Mercurial is a distributed version control system very similar to
          git). Perhaps I need to add a “Fork me on Bitbucket” strip like the shopworn
          “Fork my on GitHub one, but for now see:

          http://vim.begin-site.org/source/

          >
          > Moreover the idea I had also included managing plugins by VCS repository
          > url - so that the www.vim.org implementation could be replaced one day.

          Interesting.

          >
          > If you're interested in those goals to I'll point you to our document to
          > which we've written our ideas (me and garbas that time).

          Sure, give us a link. It may provide some inspiration.

          > I don't think Vim needs yet another page - it needs one which can be
          > contributed to by users easily.

          Well, see:

          http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=perl-petdance-thousand-flowers

          Anyway, it shouldn't be hard for clueful users to contribute content directly to
          the Vim-Begin, though at the moment it will require some more mental effort than
          using a web browser interface. It is certainly easier than tweaking the source
          of http://perl-begin.org/contribute/ which has quite a few dependencies.

          >
          > However its only my personal opinion.
          >

          Your opinion still counts and it will provide some useful input.

          Regards,

          Shlomi Fish

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        • Ben Fritz
          ... It s a wiki. I think fixing the wiki would be easier than starting over from scratch. For beginners, there is even a getting started section with some
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 28, 2012
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            On Thursday, December 27, 2012 1:41:11 AM UTC-6, Shlomi Fish wrote:
            >
            > In any case, while the wiki is a useful resource,
            > as some people told me on IRC:
            >
            >
            >
            > <<<
            > the vim wiki is a mess, the help is too hard to navigate for
            > newcomers
            > >>>
            >

            It's a wiki. I think fixing the wiki would be easier than starting over from scratch. For beginners, there is even a "getting started" section with some decent starter tips. It's easy enough for any community-edited page to become "a mess", all it takes is a lot of "drive by editing" and not enough long-term maintainers.

            >
            > Another problem with the wiki is that being hosted on Wikia, there are some
            > intrusive ads by default.
            >

            I can't argue with that. But most of the time the ads are normal easily ignored banner ads. And you can create an account and log in to hide most of those.

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          • Shlomi Fish
            Hi Ben, On Fri, 28 Dec 2012 16:22:36 -0800 (PST) ... Right, and that s why I sometimes prefer a centrally managed static or mostly static HTML site, which I
            Message 5 of 5 , Dec 29, 2012
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              Hi Ben,

              On Fri, 28 Dec 2012 16:22:36 -0800 (PST)
              Ben Fritz <fritzophrenic@...> wrote:

              > On Thursday, December 27, 2012 1:41:11 AM UTC-6, Shlomi Fish wrote:
              > >
              > > In any case, while the wiki is a useful resource,
              > > as some people told me on IRC:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > <<<
              > > the vim wiki is a mess, the help is too hard to navigate for
              > > newcomers
              > > >>>
              > >
              >
              > It's a wiki. I think fixing the wiki would be easier than starting over from
              > scratch. For beginners, there is even a "getting started" section with some
              > decent starter tips. It's easy enough for any community-edited page to become
              > "a mess", all it takes is a lot of "drive by editing" and not enough
              > long-term maintainers.

              Right, and that's why I sometimes prefer a centrally managed static or mostly
              static HTML site, which I have control of, and which I can edit locally using
              Vim (or $EDITOR_OF_CHOICE), a nice terminal emulator (I'm using konsole) and
              shell (Bash in my case), and a nice version control system. Add to that that
              the MediaWiki syntax is horrible, and that the Wikimedia people have a separate
              mailing list for ranting about the horrible code and design of its parser.

              There are other problems with Wikis such as rampant spam, but Wikia appears to
              handle them pretty well so far (touch wood).

              In any case, adding a common navigation menu is easier in Jekyll than it would
              be in a Wikia MediaWiki instance that I don't control, but I guess I can
              contribute to http://vim.wikia.com/ as well.

              Also see:
              http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=perl-petdance-thousand-flowers .


              >
              > >
              > > Another problem with the wiki is that being hosted on Wikia, there are some
              > > intrusive ads by default.
              > >
              >
              > I can't argue with that. But most of the time the ads are normal easily
              > ignored banner ads. And you can create an account and log in to hide most of
              > those.

              True, but many (most?) people who stumble upon the Wiki will run into the ads
              (assuming they are not using AdBlock Plus or whatever), and it leaves a bad
              taste in the mouth.

              Regards,

              Shlomi Fish

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