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Re: O-Reilly's Learning the vi and Vim Editors

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  • Erik Christiansen
    ... Well, Vim is Vi Improved , and as such provides a superset of vi capability. It can be used in compatibility mode , or allowed to bend some of the old vi
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 2, 2011
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      On 01.09.11 17:15, Hozzy2u wrote:
      > I'm familiar with the publisher of the book referred to in the subject
      > line but am concerned with the fact that it appears much of the book
      > deals with vi. Is the material on vi of any value in learning Vim?
      > Money is a little short lately and I don't wish to waste any. Thanks
      > to anyone kind enough to answer this.

      Well, Vim is "Vi Improved", and as such provides a superset of vi
      capability. It can be used in "compatibility mode", or allowed to bend
      some of the old vi norms, if you find them outdated and inconvenient.

      To be a good Vim book, I'd look for at least 60% of it to cover the Vim
      extensions and extra capability.

      Good luck with the new endeavor.

      Erik

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    • Lars Iselid
      I would suggest Vim recipes http://vim.runpaint.org/vim-recipes.pdf and the vimtutor in vim for learning the vim editor. Both free of course! Lars On Fri, Sep
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 2, 2011
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        I would suggest Vim recipes http://vim.runpaint.org/vim-recipes.pdf and the vimtutor in vim for learning the vim editor. Both free of course!
        Lars




        On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Erik Christiansen <dvalin@...> wrote:
        On 01.09.11 17:15, Hozzy2u wrote:
        > I'm familiar with the publisher of the book referred to in the subject
        > line but am concerned with the fact that it appears much of the book
        > deals with vi. Is the material on vi of any value in learning Vim?
        > Money is a little short lately and I don't wish to waste any. Thanks
        > to anyone kind enough to answer this.

        Well, Vim is "Vi Improved", and as such provides a superset of vi
        capability. It can be used in "compatibility mode", or allowed to bend
        some of the old vi norms, if you find them outdated and inconvenient.

        To be a good Vim book, I'd look for at least 60% of it to cover the Vim
        extensions and extra capability.

        Good luck with the new endeavor.

        Erik

        --
        "He said, 'You know, I have often thought that at the end of the day, we
        would have saved more wildlife if we had spent all WWF's money on buying
        condoms.' He was right, and human overpopulation is ultimately the
        greatest threat to wildlife."  - Professor Short, quoting Sir Peter
        Scott, founder of the World Wildlife Fund,

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      • Tim Gray
        ... It s not a bad book. But if you want to save some cash, either buy it used, or just use the references found here: http://www.vim.org/docs.php I d like to
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 2, 2011
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          On Sep 01, 2011 at 05:15 PM -0700, Hozzy2u wrote:
          > Is the material on vi of any value in learning Vim? Money is a little
          > short lately and I don't wish to waste any. Thanks to anyone kind
          > enough to answer this.

          It's not a bad book. But if you want to save some cash, either buy it
          used, or just use the references found here:
          http://www.vim.org/docs.php

          I'd like to particularly call your attention to the book mentioned.
          It's a full pdf available for free. Between that, searching for
          specific things on google, and reading vim's excellent built in help,
          you should be able to pick it up fine.

          As people have already said, Vim is based on vi, so a lot of the basic
          commands are the same. And the basic commands are the ones that it
          seems are foreign to most people: getting used to the modal nature of
          the editor, navigating with the hjkl keys, etc. Once you get used to
          that stuff, you should be comfortable enough with the basic operation of
          the program to learn anything else you need to know via Google and the
          built-in help.

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        • Russell Bateman
          Everyone learns differently, but the O Reilly book is just about the only one there is and it s not bad. I learned vi 30 years ago rubbing shoulders with UNIX
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 2, 2011
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            Everyone learns differently, but the O'Reilly book is just about the
            only one there is and it's not bad. I learned vi 30 years ago rubbing
            shoulders with UNIX guys for that's what came with UNIX and worked
            nearly identically no matter which flavor (System V or BSD).

            It's a lot to bite off and it will be intimidating at first, but
            considering what you intend to do, it's probably the very best and most
            powerful solution.

            Now for Vim vs. vi...

            Vim does give a lot of power to vi. However, when I use this editor, as
            I do day-in and day-out, I'd say that 90% or more of what I use is just
            plain vi. Where Vim comes in for me most is in the superb configuration
            of my .vimrc file--how Vim/vi behaves for my personally. Vim gives me
            syntax highlighting (which vi did not) when I wrote in C, now in Java
            and also XML and HTML, but that's not really something to learn, only to
            use. It just works and I'm happy enough with the colors chosen so that I
            no longer fiddle with them as I did 15 years ago when I switched from
            plain vi to Vim.

            I also frequently use the Vim command sequence, "gqip", to rewrap
            paragraphs of text in HTML files that I always hand-edit. (I'll give up
            adding examples here.)

            So, my advice is that most of what you'll be using is vi. vi is core.
            You'll likely not be able to make powerful use of what Vim offers above
            and beyond vi if you don't grok vi itself.

            Thinking about what you're doing, I advise you also to begin learning
            regular expressions which you'll use when searching, searching and
            replacing, and in particular, something called regular-expression
            patterns. They will come in very handy I think. I don't remember how
            much time O'Reilly spends on regular expressions, but there's a lot out
            there for Googling.

            Here's something I keep around (copied years ago from elsewhere), though
            I never use it myself as I've almost never needed it:

            http://www.javahotchocolate.com/notes/vicheat.html

            Best of luck,

            Russ


            ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            *Subject:* O-Reilly's Learning the vi and Vim Editors
            *Sent:* Thursday, 01 September 2011 17:15:28 -0700 (PDT)
            *From:* Hozzy2u <tfhosmer@...>
            *To:* vim_use <vim_use@...>


            > 63 and a complete noobe to Vim, I've installed version 7.3 in Windows
            > Vista. I'm trying to find an extra income source and settled on
            > formatting plain text files into e-books using xhtml. I found what
            > appears to be a phenomenal program, Vim but it looks to be more than a
            > little intimidating. I'm familiar with the publisher of the book
            > referred to in the subject line but am concerned with the fact that it
            > appears much of the book deals with vi. Is the material on vi of any
            > value in learning Vim? Money is a little short lately and I don't wish
            > to waste any. Thanks to anyone kind enough to answer this.
            >

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          • Erik Christiansen
            ... And you can use the cursor keys, until hjkl seem more convenient. (There s more than enough to learn at first, so reusing what you can makes for an easier
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 2, 2011
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              On 02.09.11 08:18, Tim Gray wrote:
              > And the basic commands are the ones that it seems are foreign to most
              > people: getting used to the modal nature of the editor, navigating
              > with the hjkl keys, etc.

              And you can use the cursor keys, until hjkl seem more convenient.
              (There's more than enough to learn at first, so reusing what you can
              makes for an easier start, I think.)

              Erik

              --
              Habit is habit, and not to be flung out of the window by any man, but
              coaxed down-stairs a step at a time.
              - Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar

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            • Tim Chase
              ... Indeed, Vim has a learning-curve a bit like a brick wall. Once you understand the modal nature, and the {count}{operator}{motion} pattern of commands, you
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 2, 2011
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                On 09/01/11 19:15, Hozzy2u wrote:
                > I found what appears to be a phenomenal program, Vim but it
                > looks to be more than a little intimidating.

                Indeed, Vim has a learning-curve a bit like a brick wall. Once
                you understand the modal nature, and the
                {count}{operator}{motion} pattern of commands, you have a solid
                framework on which to hang your future learning.

                > I'm familiar with the publisher of the book referred to in
                > the subject line but am concerned with the fact that it
                > appears much of the book deals with vi. Is the material on vi
                > of any value in learning Vim? Money is a little short lately
                > and I don't wish to waste any. Thanks to anyone kind enough
                > to answer this.

                While I'd agree that learning vi is of value, since Vim is a
                superset of vi, there are many free resources available to help
                you get the basics. First, I'd recommend the vimtutor that comes
                with Vim. It will walk you through a number of the basics.
                Others have suggested additional quality online resources. My
                biggest additions to those recommendations would be

                1) to hang out here on the mailing list. Even after a decade of
                using Vim, I still learn new tricks from folks here on the list; and

                2) regularly look at your editing habits and analyze them for "it
                feels like I'm working too hard here, there's gotta be an easier
                way to do this". Vim makes quick work of many repetitive editing
                tasks.

                If you need some practice, you might also try your hand at
                vimgolf.com to see how you'd solve the problems, and how others
                have solved them (the solutions are often all over the map, so
                you can see alternative ways of tackling a problem).

                -tim




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              • Eric Weir
                ... I m older than you, and a not-quite complete noobie, but definitely a noobie compared to most here. I can t speak about the O Reilly book, except that I ve
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 2, 2011
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                  On Sep 1, 2011, at 8:15 PM, Hozzy2u wrote:

                  > 63 and a complete noobe to Vim, I've installed version 7.3 in Windows
                  > Vista. I'm trying to find an extra income source and settled on
                  > formatting plain text files into e-books using xhtml. I found what
                  > appears to be a phenomenal program, Vim but it looks to be more than a
                  > little intimidating. I'm familiar with the publisher of the book
                  > referred to in the subject line but am concerned with the fact that it
                  > appears much of the book deals with vi. Is the material on vi of any
                  > value in learning Vim? Money is a little short lately and I don't wish
                  > to waste any. Thanks to anyone kind enough to answer this.

                  I'm older than you, and a not-quite complete noobie, but definitely a noobie compared to most here. I can't speak about the O'Reilly book, except that I've thought of buying, but only thought of. I did buy the Oualinne book, which is touted here, or at least on vim.org, and found it distinctly unhelpful.

                  That said, my advice would be to just start. Use this list. People are more than generous. And almost always, it seems, there is a ready solution. Not quite, but almost. By asking questions here I was able to get Vim set up so that it was comfortable to me. It probably helps that I'm an OS X user and I use the MacVim version of Vim.

                  Vim is powerful. More powerful than I even understand. There re tons of neat plugins that extend its capabilities in interesting ways. I frequently hear people here who are way more competent than me saying they're "still learning." That's one of the cool things about Vim -- that it can be used at many different levels of expertise.

                  Just start. You'll get comfortable with it quicker than you imagine. Especially if you're any kind of programmer, though that is not necessary.

                  Regards,
                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Eric Weir
                  eeweir@...

                  "Human coexistence and social life constitute the good common to us all
                  from which and thanks to which all cultural and social goods derive." - Zygmunt Bauman

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                • Jostein Berntsen
                  ... Doing the vimtutor is a good thing to learn vim, as mentioned previously. The last book I bought on Vim recently was Hacking Vim . A nice one.
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 2, 2011
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                    On 01.09.11,17:15, Hozzy2u wrote:
                    > 63 and a complete noobe to Vim, I've installed version 7.3 in Windows
                    > Vista. I'm trying to find an extra income source and settled on
                    > formatting plain text files into e-books using xhtml. I found what
                    > appears to be a phenomenal program, Vim but it looks to be more than a
                    > little intimidating. I'm familiar with the publisher of the book
                    > referred to in the subject line but am concerned with the fact that it
                    > appears much of the book deals with vi. Is the material on vi of any
                    > value in learning Vim? Money is a little short lately and I don't wish
                    > to waste any. Thanks to anyone kind enough to answer this.
                    >
                    >

                    Doing the vimtutor is a good thing to learn vim, as mentioned previously. The
                    last book I bought on Vim recently was "Hacking Vim". A nice one.

                    http://www.packtpub.com/hacking-vim-72/book


                    Jostein


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                  • Hozzy2u
                    I just want to thank everyone for their quick response to my question. I have just downloaded the Vim Recipes PDF file and printed it out so I could
                    Message 9 of 12 , Sep 2, 2011
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                      I just want to thank everyone for their quick response to my question.
                      I have just downloaded the "Vim Recipes" PDF file and printed it out
                      so I could highlight and add notes as I read it. I look forward to
                      watching this group and hope to at some point get to where I can add
                      to the responses. Thanks again you have all been a great help.

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                    • Tim Chase
                      ... as much as I d like to support authors of Vim books, I m glad you didn t have to spend significant money. ... As can tell, the list is a pretty friendly
                      Message 10 of 12 , Sep 2, 2011
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                        On 09/02/11 13:37, Hozzy2u wrote:
                        > I just want to thank everyone for their quick response to my
                        > question. I have just downloaded the "Vim Recipes" PDF file
                        > and printed it out so I could highlight and add notes as I
                        > read it.

                        as much as I'd like to support authors of Vim books, I'm glad you
                        didn't have to spend significant money.

                        > I look forward to watching this group and hope to at some
                        > point get to where I can add to the responses. Thanks again
                        > you have all been a great help.

                        As can tell, the list is a pretty friendly place and we want your
                        experience with Vim to be a positive one. Vim's help is pretty
                        exhaustive, so one of the other important things to learn is how
                        to navigate it. But even then, there have been times where I've
                        lacked the right search-terms for :helpgrep and had to ask the
                        list where to find a certain feature. So if something puzzles
                        you and you're feeling stumped, we're glad to help you out!

                        -tim


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                      • Marcin Szamotulski
                        ... Hi, There are also very nice video casts by Derek Wyatt: http://vimeo.com/6999927, which I found recently and watched them just for fun. They are a very
                        Message 11 of 12 , Sep 2, 2011
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                          On 13:53 Fri 02 Sep , Tim Chase wrote:
                          > On 09/02/11 13:37, Hozzy2u wrote:
                          > > I just want to thank everyone for their quick response to my
                          > > question. I have just downloaded the "Vim Recipes" PDF file
                          > > and printed it out so I could highlight and add notes as I
                          > > read it.
                          >
                          > as much as I'd like to support authors of Vim books, I'm glad you
                          > didn't have to spend significant money.
                          >
                          > > I look forward to watching this group and hope to at some
                          > > point get to where I can add to the responses. Thanks again
                          > > you have all been a great help.
                          >
                          > As can tell, the list is a pretty friendly place and we want your
                          > experience with Vim to be a positive one. Vim's help is pretty
                          > exhaustive, so one of the other important things to learn is how
                          > to navigate it. But even then, there have been times where I've
                          > lacked the right search-terms for :helpgrep and had to ask the
                          > list where to find a certain feature. So if something puzzles
                          > you and you're feeling stumped, we're glad to help you out!
                          >
                          > -tim
                          >
                          >
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                          Hi,

                          There are also very nice video casts by Derek Wyatt: http://vimeo.com/6999927,
                          which I found recently and watched them just for fun. They are a very good
                          introduction to vim. It is also worth looking at Darek Wyatt blog:
                          http://www.derekwyatt.org/vim/ (where all the videos are listed in more
                          structured way, and also you can find there his vimrc file with nice
                          comments).

                          Best regards,
                          Marcin

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