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Re: Vim homepage - improvements I'd like to implement. Comment please

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  • Alan Young
    A: change script type What about allowing multiple types via tags or keywords. Also, as a separate option, allow users to suggest tags they find useful as
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 1, 2011
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      A: change script type

      What about allowing multiple types via tags or keywords.

      Also, as a separate option, allow users to suggest tags they find
      useful as well.

      B: repository field

      Other pieces of info should be included too. E.g. issues, wiki, etc.

      D: change voting system

      I like StackOverflow's setup. Perhaps something similar to that.

      D1: return list of scripts/archives in JSON format

      I'd like to see other formats supported as well. Also, being able to
      restrict results to certain parameters would be nice.
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      Alan Young

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    • Ben Fritz
      ... I do not feel strongly either way about this, but the last time I remember a discussion about leaving comments on the vim scripts site, we eventually
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 1, 2011
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        On Dec 31 2010, 1:44 am, Marc Weber <marco-owe...@...> wrote:
        >
        > FUTURE (?)
        >   PHP docs contain a feature: You can add comments below each documentation page.
        >   Someone (Bram) already added link to a per script id wiki page. However I feel
        >   that showing user comments in the same page could be a nice idea (?)
        >   Do you have a strong opinion on this?
        >   We should add a note that comments "are not maintained" by script authors.
        >   We don't want to put an additional burden on them.
        >
        >   Maybe there should a way for users to subscribe to comment changes (?)
        >
        >   This is not a top priority for me so only comment about this if you
        >   feel strong about it and if you think I should change something here.
        >

        I do not feel strongly either way about this, but the last time I
        remember a discussion about leaving comments on the vim scripts site,
        we eventually decided on the dedicated wiki pages for a few reasons:

        * easy to do, virtually no setup
        * support from Wikia for maintenance if needed
        * support from Wikia for spam fighting with decent filters already in
        place
        * Bram went ahead and created the link and people started creating
        pages (becoming the de facto method of choice)

        I don't want to see a whole bunch of effort put into something that
        won't give us much more benefit. I especially worry about spam.
        Although some high-traffic sites can rely on things like voting down
        bad comments, I doubt vim.org gets that kind of traffic. Spammy
        contributions and comments were one of the main reasons for moving the
        tips to wikia back in 2007 or whenever that happened.

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      • Ben Fritz
        ... Great idea, and probably very easy to implement and low risk. Go for it. ... Also a great idea. It would allow users to get the cutting edge version if
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 1, 2011
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          On Dec 31 2010, 1:44 am, Marc Weber <marco-owe...@...> wrote:
          > Bram was so kind adding me to the list of contributors to the Vim project which
          > means that I can propose Vim web page changes by sending Bram patches.
          > If you have any urgent feature requests its the time to start talking about them.
          >
          > I'd like to implement:
          >
          >   A:a way to change the script type afterwards (because Bram had to do this manually using SQL)
          >

          Great idea, and probably very easy to implement and low risk. Go for
          it.

          >   B:a "repository" field. This way you can register a
          >     git/mercurial/whatsoever repository along with your plugin.
          >

          Also a great idea. It would allow users to get the cutting edge
          version if needed. Maybe don't limit it to a version control field. I
          know people like Dr. Chip like to host script versions on their
          websites before publishing to vim.org. Also as someone mentions, a
          "bug tracker" field could be useful as well.

          >   C:an opt-in collaboration feature: You can add other users as collaborators to
          >     your scripts which means that they can change the description and upload new
          >     versions as well (This is similar to what can be done on github)
          >
          >     I'm not sure whether a collaborator should be able to add/drop other
          >     collaborators.
          >

          I like this, but I don't think all collaborators should be able to add/
          drop other collaborators. Maybe you could give two levels of access,
          not just one, but that would be harder. Another possibility would be
          all collaborators need to agree with the addition/removal of another
          collaborator (except for the person being removed, obviously).

          >     There was a request on the mailinglist for transfering
          >     maintainership to someone else. If this should be possible a
          >     collaborator should be able to add drop collaborators?
          >
          >     I think yes because you have to trust collaborators anyway.
          >
          >   D:change the voting system this way:
          >
          >     1) votings should be tight to a specific versions. If a plugin fixed bugs
          >        there is no reason why bad ratings of version 0.0 should still affect the
          >       latest version ( which might be 10.0 )
          >
          >       Because you can delete specific version archives later there may be votings
          >       for versions which can longe be downloaded
          >
          >       I'm not sure which voting to show by default. Maybe the current figures
          >       should be kept but an optional "detailed" few should be added?

          I like the idea of starting voting over on a new version, though
          obviously it would be open to abuse. Maybe showing the voting of the
          version next to the entry in the history would limit the abuse. Show
          the most recent vote tally, or a weighted average of all the versions
          (newer versions weighted higher).

          >
          >     2) force users to give a reason if they vote something down. This will be
          >        kind of dialog and it'll help devs to understand user requirements
          >

          I don't like this. Maybe highly encourage it but don't force it or it
          will discourage legitimate negative votes. The voting is really meant
          for people considering trying out the script, not for the script
          author.

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        • Bram Moolenaar
          ... More general: a link to where the plugin is maintained. Could be a sourceforge or Google code project. There you can have a bugtracker and everything.
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 4, 2011
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            Marc Weber wrote:

            > Bram was so kind adding me to the list of contributors to the Vim
            > project which means that I can propose Vim web page changes by sending
            > Bram patches. If you have any urgent feature requests its the time to
            > start talking about them.
            >
            > I'd like to implement:
            >
            > A:a way to change the script type afterwards (because Bram had to do this manually using SQL)
            >
            >
            > B:a "repository" field. This way you can register a
            > git/mercurial/whatsoever repository along with your plugin.

            More general: a link to where the plugin is maintained. Could be a
            sourceforge or Google code project. There you can have a bugtracker and
            everything.

            > C:an opt-in collaboration feature: You can add other users as collaborators to
            > your scripts which means that they can change the description and upload new
            > versions as well (This is similar to what can be done on github)
            >
            > I'm not sure whether a collaborator should be able to add/drop other
            > collaborators.
            >
            > There was a request on the mailinglist for transfering
            > maintainership to someone else. If this should be possible a
            > collaborator should be able to add drop collaborators?
            >
            > I think yes because you have to trust collaborators anyway.
            >
            >
            > D:change the voting system this way:
            >
            > 1) votings should be tight to a specific versions. If a plugin fixed bugs
            > there is no reason why bad ratings of version 0.0 should still affect the
            > latest version ( which might be 10.0 )
            >
            > Because you can delete specific version archives later there may be votings
            > for versions which can longe be downloaded
            >
            > I'm not sure which voting to show by default. Maybe the current figures
            > should be kept but an optional "detailed" few should be added?
            >
            > 2) force users to give a reason if they vote something down. This will be
            > kind of dialog and it'll help devs to understand user requirements

            We can't allow users to add arbitrary text and especially links. This
            will soon result in spamming, as what happened with Tips and forced us
            to take it down.

            It might be OK if we filter out anything that looks like a URL.

            > 3) create a new page returning a list of all scripts and achives as JSON format
            > which can be used by tools like vim-addon-manager or similar.
            >
            > FUTURE (?)
            > PHP docs contain a feature: You can add comments below each documentation page.
            > Someone (Bram) already added link to a per script id wiki page. However I feel
            > that showing user comments in the same page could be a nice idea (?)
            > Do you have a strong opinion on this?
            > We should add a note that comments "are not maintained" by script authors.
            > We don't want to put an additional burden on them.

            Like above, spamming may become a problem. That's why there is a link
            to the tips page.

            > Maybe there should a way for users to subscribe to comment changes (?)
            >
            > This is not a top priority for me so only comment about this if you
            > feel strong about it and if you think I should change something here.
            >
            > Provide feedback about these ideas, please

            --
            hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict:
            79. All of your most erotic dreams have a scrollbar at the right side.

            /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
            /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
            \\\ an exciting new programming language -- http://www.Zimbu.org ///
            \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org ///

            --
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          • Bram Moolenaar
            ... Instead of actually deleting it, we can mark scripts as deprecated . Like with version control, it s often good to never throw anything away. ... -- You
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 4, 2011
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              Jeet Sukumaran wrote:

              > I think the ability to delete a script (or, at least, its listing/
              > publishing) would be quite desirable. Unless there is a technical or
              > theoretical (design) reason for it not being there now?

              Instead of actually deleting it, we can mark scripts as "deprecated".
              Like with version control, it's often good to never throw anything away.

              > Comments would be great, but without moderation and maintenance of any
              > sort, it may quickly become messy and ugly.
              >
              >
              >
              > On Dec 31 2010, 3:44=A0pm, Marc Weber <marco-owe...@...> wrote:
              > > Bram was so kind adding me to the list of contributors to the Vim project=
              > which
              > > means that I can propose Vim web page changes by sending Bram patches.
              > > If you have any urgent feature requests its the time to start talking abo=
              > ut them.
              > >
              > > I'd like to implement:
              > >
              > > =A0 A:a way to change the script type afterwards (because Bram had to do =
              > this manually using SQL)
              > >
              > > =A0 B:a "repository" field. This way you can register a
              > > =A0 =A0 git/mercurial/whatsoever repository along with your plugin.
              > >
              > > =A0 C:an opt-in collaboration feature: You can add other users as collabo=
              > rators to
              > > =A0 =A0 your scripts which means that they can change the description and=
              > upload new
              > > =A0 =A0 versions as well (This is similar to what can be done on github)
              > >
              > > =A0 =A0 I'm not sure whether a collaborator should be able to add/drop ot=
              > her
              > > =A0 =A0 collaborators.
              > >
              > > =A0 =A0 There was a request on the mailinglist for transfering
              > > =A0 =A0 maintainership to someone else. If this should be possible a
              > > =A0 =A0 collaborator should be able to add drop collaborators?
              > >
              > > =A0 =A0 I think yes because you have to trust collaborators anyway.
              > >
              > > =A0 D:change the voting system this way:
              > >
              > > =A0 =A0 1) votings should be tight to a specific versions. If a plugin fi=
              > xed bugs
              > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0there is no reason why bad ratings of version 0.0 should s=
              > till affect the
              > > =A0 =A0 =A0 latest version ( which might be 10.0 )
              > >
              > > =A0 =A0 =A0 Because you can delete specific version archives later there =
              > may be votings
              > > =A0 =A0 =A0 for versions which can longe be downloaded
              > >
              > > =A0 =A0 =A0 I'm not sure which voting to show by default. Maybe the curre=
              > nt figures
              > > =A0 =A0 =A0 should be kept but an optional "detailed" few should be added=
              > ?
              > >
              > > =A0 =A0 2) force users to give a reason if they vote something down. This=
              > will be
              > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0kind of dialog and it'll help devs to understand user requ=
              > irements
              > >
              > > =A0 =A0 3) create a new page returning a list of all scripts and achives =
              > as JSON format
              > > =A0 =A0 =A0 which can be used by tools like vim-addon-manager or similar.
              > >
              > > FUTURE (?)
              > > =A0 PHP docs contain a feature: You can add comments below each documenta=
              > tion page.
              > > =A0 Someone (Bram) already added link to a per script id wiki page. Howev=
              > er I feel
              > > =A0 that showing user comments in the same page could be a nice idea (?)
              > > =A0 Do you have a strong opinion on this?
              > > =A0 We should add a note that comments "are not maintained" by script aut=
              > hors.
              > > =A0 We don't want to put an additional burden on them.
              > >
              > > =A0 Maybe there should a way for users to subscribe to comment changes (?=
              > )
              > >
              > > =A0 This is not a top priority for me so only comment about this if you
              > > =A0 feel strong about it and if you think I should change something here.
              > >
              > > Provide feedback about these ideas, please
              > >
              > > Marc Weber
              >
              > --=20
              > You received this message from the "vim_use" maillist.
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              > For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php

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            • Bram Moolenaar
              ... I don t think it s possible to send mail. Unless sourceforge has re-enabled this. It stopped working a couple of years ago. ... Please don t start yet
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 4, 2011
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                Marc Weber wrote:

                > Excerpts from Marc Weber's message of Fri Dec 31 08:44:02 +0100 2010:
                >
                > E) new password request the way its known by other sites:
                > - receive mail
                > - click link
                > - reset password

                I don't think it's possible to send mail. Unless sourceforge has
                re-enabled this. It stopped working a couple of years ago.

                > F) add a way to change a password
                >
                > G) hide script (we don't have to delete it)?
                > only maintainers / authors should be able to hide a script
                >
                > E) bug tracking system or url field?
                > It should be KISS simple: You have to have an account.
                > states: open, closed
                >
                > actions:
                > - create
                > - close
                > - add comment

                Please don't start yet another bug tracking system. There are plenty
                around.

                > Usually a site such as www.vim.org should not be abused to reinvent the
                > wheel. However most Vim scripts are very small and not all are hosted on
                > github or the like (?)
                >
                > About the "reasons" of downvoting: Of course they should be visible to
                > everyone. Maybe maintainers should be able to add comments so that you
                > can correct false claims.
                >
                > About the PHP.net style comments: Yes, they can be messy. However
                > sometimes they also contain valuable contents (maybe 1 out of 10
                > messages are useful and that could be worth it. In fact we could add a
                > voting system and hide comments which have a very bad voting
                > automatically)
                >
                > About changing ownership: Bram wants to be very conservative.
                > So maybe this should be manually.
                > I can't even think about a system would make sense to track
                > "orphandness" or the like.
                > A possibilty could be users adding claims such as
                >
                > date |
                > xxx | tried contacting by mail foo@host but no reply
                > ....
                >
                > However you can see that this is not easy to get right. So for now I'd
                > like to skip this idea and do it the usual way: Post to the mailinglist
                > - hope for replies. Its archived so you can look it up later as well.
                >
                > Maybe this should be documented (?)

                --
                hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict:
                81. At social functions you introduce your husband as "my domain server."

                /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
                /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
                \\\ an exciting new programming language -- http://www.Zimbu.org ///
                \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org ///

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              • Marc Weber
                ... We could make an HTTP request to an external sever which can send mail. So if we want it we can make it work easily. ... Agreed. Maybe we can setup a
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 5, 2011
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                  Excerpts from Bram Moolenaar's message of Tue Jan 04 14:01:27 +0100 2011:
                  > I don't think it's possible to send mail. Unless sourceforge has
                  > re-enabled this. It stopped working a couple of years ago.

                  We could make an HTTP request to an external sever which can send mail.
                  So if we want it we can make it work easily.

                  > Please don't start yet another bug tracking system. There are plenty
                  > around.
                  Agreed. Maybe we can setup a mantis tracker and create subprojects for
                  each script or such ?

                  We could then add a new field "bug tracker" to each script. If its empty
                  we could default to mantis.

                  Marc Weber

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