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Re: Pain at Vim Tips wiki

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  • Raúl Núñez de Arenas Coronado
    Hi John :) Well, I find these kind of changes plainly rude. And yes, I know that sometimes it is the price you pay for having a good, free, reliable service,
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 1, 2010
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      Hi John :)

      Well, I find these kind of changes plainly rude. And yes, I know that
      sometimes it is the price you pay for having a good, free, reliable
      service, but I still can't help thinking the same: rude.

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      The revolution will not be televised

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    • John Beckett
      ... No, after November 4 there will be NO chance of Monobook or any other skin working, other than the new Wikia skin. There is one exception. Monobook will be
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 1, 2010
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        Tony Mechelynck wrote:
        > I notice that the "official" reason for removal of the Monaco
        > skin is that "it is too complex" and that "elements on a wiki
        > page could collide with each other in unexpected ways". That
        > didn't prevent them from removing my beloved CologneBlue
        > skin, already some time ago. OTOH I see a lot of talk about
        > removing the Monaco skin, but the Monobook skin (which is
        > supposedly "simpler") is totally left unmentioned. I'm
        > crossing fingers and knocking on wood in the forlorn hope
        > that this skin, at least, will remain as an option for
        > logged-in users, but I won't mention it on that staff blog
        > lest they become conscious of its existence and take it away
        > too. (I already needed to re-opt-in to it twice after my
        > login cookie had expired.)

        No, after November 4 there will be NO chance of Monobook or any
        other skin working, other than the new Wikia skin.

        There is one exception. Monobook will be kept for Uncyclopedia,
        a parody of Wikipedia: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/

        > From what you're saying, I suppose that even if we found
        > some other hosting space, installed Wikimedia software on it
        > (and "our" choice of Wikimedia skins), and then migrated the
        > existing wiki pages while deleting all old pages one by one
        > in the process, some "well-intentioned" wikia meddler admin
        > would quietly restore everything from history...

        Yes, Wikia will simply revert any attempts to significantly
        remove material, so they own us completely.

        John

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      • Joe
        ... Well, hopefully the kiddies this attracts can contribute some Vim scripts. Because the world needs more script kiddies, right? Wait... -- You received
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 1, 2010
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          [09/30/10] @ 7:19PM PDT, johnb.beckett@... wrote:
          > Wikia have several large wikis (much larger than ours), with
          > often young participants. Wikia want to boost kiddie
          > participation, which leads to more page views on wikia.com.

          Well, hopefully the kiddies this attracts can contribute some Vim
          scripts. Because the world needs more script kiddies, right?

          Wait...

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        • Oivvio Polite
          Just out of curiosity, how was the decision made that the vim wiki should be hosted at wikia? Wouldn t be natural for a project of this size to have a wiki
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 4, 2010
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            Just out of curiosity, how was the decision made that the vim wiki
            should be hosted at wikia? Wouldn't be natural for a project of this
            size to have a wiki completely under its own control?

            oivvio

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          • John Beckett
            ... Some history of the wiki is available here: http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Vim_Tips_Wiki:About While the Vim Tips wiki should be hosted on a system completely
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 4, 2010
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              Oivvio Polite wrote:
              > Just out of curiosity, how was the decision made that the vim
              > wiki should be hosted at wikia? Wouldn't be natural for a
              > project of this size to have a wiki completely under its own
              > control?

              Some history of the wiki is available here:
              http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Vim_Tips_Wiki:About

              While the Vim Tips wiki should be hosted on a system completely
              under our control, it was decided at the time (early 2007) that
              relying on a private system operated by a Vim enthusiast may
              lead to long term problems if that enthusiast were hit by the
              proverbial bus. Indeed, the whole Vim mailing list ground to a
              halt for several weeks in 2007 when the hosting server suddenly
              became unavailable (that's why we are now on Google Groups).

              I have recently received a good offer of free hosting, but now
              we have the additional problem that forking would cause, in
              addition to any concerns regarding buses.

              John

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            • Ben Fritz
              ... I personally like the fact that we don t need to worry about the heavy spam filtering, server security, server maintenance, version upgrades, etc. I like
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 5, 2010
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                On Oct 4, 4:33 am, "John Beckett" <johnb.beck...@...> wrote:
                > Oivvio Polite wrote:
                > > Just out of curiosity, how was the decision made that the vim
                > > wiki should be hosted at wikia? Wouldn't be natural for a
                > > project of this size to have a wiki completely under its own
                > > control?
                >
                > Some history of the wiki is available here:http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Vim_Tips_Wiki:About
                >
                > While the Vim Tips wiki should be hosted on a system completely
                > under our control, it was decided at the time (early 2007) that
                > relying on a private system operated by a Vim enthusiast may
                > lead to long term problems if that enthusiast were hit by the
                > proverbial bus. Indeed, the whole Vim mailing list ground to a
                > halt for several weeks in 2007 when the hosting server suddenly
                > became unavailable (that's why we are now on Google Groups).
                >
                > I have recently received a good offer of free hosting, but now
                > we have the additional problem that forking would cause, in
                > addition to any concerns regarding buses.
                >

                I personally like the fact that we don't need to worry about the heavy
                spam filtering, server security, server maintenance, version upgrades,
                etc. I like having a team of (presumably paid?) support people that
                can come to our aid when needed. The changes that are coming are, in
                my opinion, mildly annoying but not a big deal. I was far more upset
                by the ads that popped up and floated across my screen a few times,
                and those were gone within a week. I'm willing to put up with a few
                minor annoyances for the stability, availability, speed, and relative
                ease of working with the wiki.

                I'm not picky, and I have no deep-rooted loyalty to Wikia, but in my
                opinion they are still doing a pretty good job and provide us a
                valuable resource.

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              • John Beckett
                ... Yes, these are important points. I have mentioned them in the past but my irritation may have caused me to overlook them now. Another issue is liability:
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 5, 2010
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                  Ben Fritz wrote:
                  > I personally like the fact that we don't need to worry about
                  > the heavy spam filtering, server security, server
                  > maintenance, version upgrades, etc. I like having a team of
                  > (presumably paid?) support people that can come to our aid
                  > when needed. The changes that are coming are, in my opinion,
                  > mildly annoying but not a big deal. I was far more upset by
                  > the ads that popped up and floated across my screen a few
                  > times, and those were gone within a week. I'm willing to put
                  > up with a few minor annoyances for the stability,
                  > availability, speed, and relative ease of working with the wiki.
                  >
                  > I'm not picky, and I have no deep-rooted loyalty to Wikia,
                  > but in my opinion they are still doing a pretty good job and
                  > provide us a valuable resource.

                  Yes, these are important points. I have mentioned them in the
                  past but my irritation may have caused me to overlook them now.

                  Another issue is liability: It is extremely unlikely that
                  anything bad would ever happen, and I wouldn't worry about it,
                  but it is nice that Wikia would be the first stop for anyone
                  with a legal complaint.

                  It looks like the bottom line of the new Wikia skin is that the
                  font will be considerably smaller to fit text into the fixed
                  660 pixel width, and there will be more fluff.

                  John

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                • Tony Mechelynck
                  ... We-e-ell, if I get bothered enough by it I may try adding some CSS rules more to my taste within a section of my SeaMonkey userContent.css wrapped in
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 6, 2010
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                    On 06/10/10 02:21, John Beckett wrote:
                    > Ben Fritz wrote:
                    >> I personally like the fact that we don't need to worry about
                    >> the heavy spam filtering, server security, server
                    >> maintenance, version upgrades, etc. I like having a team of
                    >> (presumably paid?) support people that can come to our aid
                    >> when needed. The changes that are coming are, in my opinion,
                    >> mildly annoying but not a big deal. I was far more upset by
                    >> the ads that popped up and floated across my screen a few
                    >> times, and those were gone within a week. I'm willing to put
                    >> up with a few minor annoyances for the stability,
                    >> availability, speed, and relative ease of working with the wiki.
                    >>
                    >> I'm not picky, and I have no deep-rooted loyalty to Wikia,
                    >> but in my opinion they are still doing a pretty good job and
                    >> provide us a valuable resource.
                    >
                    > Yes, these are important points. I have mentioned them in the
                    > past but my irritation may have caused me to overlook them now.
                    >
                    > Another issue is liability: It is extremely unlikely that
                    > anything bad would ever happen, and I wouldn't worry about it,
                    > but it is nice that Wikia would be the first stop for anyone
                    > with a legal complaint.
                    >
                    > It looks like the bottom line of the new Wikia skin is that the
                    > font will be considerably smaller to fit text into the fixed
                    > 660 pixel width, and there will be more fluff.
                    >
                    > John
                    >

                    We-e-ell, if I get bothered enough by it I may try adding some CSS rules
                    more to my taste within a section of my SeaMonkey userContent.css wrapped in

                    @-moz-document domain(wikia.com) {
                    }

                    which is the (Mozilla proprietary) way of specifying style rules for use
                    only on a specific domain (and I'd add !important on all of them of course).


                    Best regards,
                    Tony.

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