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Re: is the [Esc] key not very unreachable?

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  • Tim Chase
    ... Welcome ... Various folks use solutions that work for them. On my laptops, I often find that I hit accidentally when stabbing for , ... ... (for
    Message 1 of 25 , Jun 1, 2009
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      > Hello dear vim users,

      Welcome

      > - To me it feels like the [Esc] key would be very unreachable (for a
      > key which has to be pressed very often). How do other vim user cope with
      > this?

      Various folks use solutions that work for them. On my laptops, I
      often find that I hit <F1> accidentally when stabbing for <esc>,
      so I just remap them:

      :inoremap <f1> <esc>
      :nnoremap <f1> <esc>
      ... (for other mapping modes)

      This allows me to mash in the upper left corner of my keyboard
      with less need for accuracy.

      Alternatively, some folks use control+[ which sends vim the same
      character as the <esc>. I use this occasionally depending on the
      keyboard.

      Lastly, some folks remap an existing vim functionality such as
      the comma or semi-colon to serve as <esc> However I happen to
      regularly use both of those keys, so that has never appealed to me.

      > - I would like to use vim to write C++. I need gdb and I find it very
      > usefull to have gdb integrated into the editor. I find several plugins
      > for gdb ... are they all good or should I stick to specific one?

      Can't help you much here. When I've needed to do debugging, I
      usually use "screen" and just flip between the two sessions.

      > - When I press {, I like the } to be inserted with it. When I press }
      > int front of a {, I would like to jump over the } (look at eclipse
      > behavior for an example. Is this possible?

      The first one can be done with

      :inoremap { {}<left>

      The second one, I'm not sure I 100% understand (not using
      Eclipse), but it sounds like you just want

      :inoremap } }<left>





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    • Ben Fritz
      ... http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Automatically_append_closing_characters has some good suggestions. There may be others in
      Message 2 of 25 , Jun 1, 2009
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        On Jun 1, 7:24 am, Nathan Huesken <v...@...> wrote:
        > - When I press {, I like the } to be inserted with it. When I press }
        > int front of a {, I would like to jump over the } (look at eclipse
        > behavior for an example. Is this possible?
        >

        http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Automatically_append_closing_characters has
        some good suggestions.

        There may be others in http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Brackets but
        I haven't really looked at most of them.
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      • Ben Fritz
        ... ...which I ve just updated with a far superior solution than was already there, that doesn t have a bunch of side effects.
        Message 3 of 25 , Jun 1, 2009
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          On Jun 1, 10:25 am, Ben Fritz <fritzophre...@...> wrote:
          > http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Automatically_append_closing_characters has
          > some good suggestions.
          >

          ...which I've just updated with a far superior solution than was
          already there, that doesn't have a bunch of side effects.
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        • John Beckett
          ... It stops bothering you after a few months :[ I have recently done a lot of merging of various ideas that people have used. I don t use any of these, but
          Message 4 of 25 , Jun 1, 2009
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            Nathan Huesken wrote:
            > To me it feels like the [Esc] key would be very unreachable
            > (for a key which has to be pressed very often). How do other
            > vim user cope with this?

            It stops bothering you after a few months :[

            I have recently done a lot of merging of various ideas that
            people have used. I don't use any of these, but sometimes I
            think I might try...

            http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key

            John


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          • Andreas Bernauer
            ... I mapped Esc to CapsLock with xkbcomp as I never user CapsLock. Works great for me. The Gnome keyboard configurator can do this for you, too. -- Andreas.
            Message 5 of 25 , Jun 3, 2009
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              Nathan Huesken wrote:
              > - To me it feels like the [Esc] key would be very unreachable (for a
              > key which has to be pressed very often). How do other vim user cope with
              > this?

              I mapped Esc to CapsLock with xkbcomp as I never user CapsLock. Works great for me.

              The Gnome keyboard configurator can do this for you, too.

              --
              Andreas.

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            • bill lam
              On Wed, 03 Jun 2009, Andreas Bernauer wrote: Nathan Huesken wrote: - To me it feels like the [Esc] key would be very unreachable (for a key
              Message 6 of 25 , Jun 3, 2009
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                On Wed, 03 Jun 2009, Andreas Bernauer wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > Nathan Huesken wrote:
                > > - To me it feels like the [Esc] key would be very unreachable (for a
                > > key which has to be pressed very often). How do other vim user cope with
                > > this?
                >
                > I mapped Esc to CapsLock with xkbcomp as I never user CapsLock. Works great for me.

                I also swapped Esc with Capslock but using xmodmap. The position of
                Esc should be where it was when the first vi was developed.

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              • Efraim Yawitz
                ... Where is that? --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message from the vim_use maillist. For more information, visit
                Message 7 of 25 , Jun 4, 2009
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                  On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 2:55 AM, bill lam <cbill.lam@...> wrote:
                  > I also swapped Esc with Capslock but using xmodmap.  The position of
                  > Esc should be where it was when the first vi was developed.

                  Where is that?

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                • bill lam
                  On Thu, 04 Jun 2009, Efraim Yawitz wrote: On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 2:55 AM, bill lam wrote: I also swapped Esc with Capslock but
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jun 4, 2009
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                    On Thu, 04 Jun 2009, Efraim Yawitz wrote:
                    >
                    > On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 2:55 AM, bill lam <cbill.lam@...> wrote:
                    > > I also swapped Esc with Capslock but using xmodmap.  The position of
                    > > Esc should be where it was when the first vi was developed.
                    >
                    > Where is that?

                    What is 'that'?

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                  • Teemu Likonen
                    ... Where exactly was the Esc key when the first Vi was developed? --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message from the
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jun 4, 2009
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                      On 2009-06-04 21:30 (+0800), bill lam wrote:

                      > On Thu, 04 Jun 2009, Efraim Yawitz wrote:
                      >> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 2:55 AM, bill lam <cbill.lam@...> wrote:
                      >> > I also swapped Esc with Capslock but using xmodmap.  The position of
                      >> > Esc should be where it was when the first vi was developed.
                      >> Where is that?
                      >
                      > What is 'that'?

                      Where exactly was the Esc key when the first Vi was developed?

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                    • bill lam
                      ... Should be on the left of Q http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi -- regards, ==================================================== GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jun 4, 2009
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                        On Thu, 04 Jun 2009, Teemu Likonen wrote:
                        > On 2009-06-04 21:30 (+0800), bill lam wrote:
                        >
                        > > On Thu, 04 Jun 2009, Efraim Yawitz wrote:
                        > >> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 2:55 AM, bill lam <cbill.lam@...> wrote:
                        > >> > I also swapped Esc with Capslock but using xmodmap.  The position of
                        > >> > Esc should be where it was when the first vi was developed.
                        > >> Where is that?
                        > >
                        > > What is 'that'?
                        >
                        > Where exactly was the Esc key when the first Vi was developed?

                        Should be on the left of 'Q'
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi

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                      • Tim Chase
                        ... I think that is the position of the Esc [key] when the first vi was developed Though I m not sure about that -- I ve been using computers for quite a
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jun 4, 2009
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                          bill lam wrote:
                          > On Thu, 04 Jun 2009, Efraim Yawitz wrote:
                          >> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 2:55 AM, bill lam <cbill.lam@...> wrote:
                          >>> I also swapped Esc with Capslock but using xmodmap. The position of
                          >>> Esc should be where it was when the first vi was developed.
                          >> Where is that?
                          >
                          > What is 'that'?

                          I think "that" is the "position of the Esc [key] when the first
                          vi was developed"

                          Though I'm not sure about that -- I've been using computers for
                          quite a while (over 20 years...dang, I feel old & geeky) and the
                          Esc has always been in the top-left of the keyboard: from Apple
                          ][ series computers to my first x86 PC, to the DEC Ultrix
                          keyboards. Are you sure you aren't getting confused with the
                          Control vs CapsLock placement[1] war? :)

                          -tim

                          [1]
                          http://www.manicai.net/comp/swap-caps-ctrl.html





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                        • bill lam
                          On Thu, 04 Jun 2009, Tim Chase wrote: bill lam wrote: On Thu, 04 Jun 2009, Efraim Yawitz wrote: On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 2:55 AM, bill lam
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jun 4, 2009
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                            On Thu, 04 Jun 2009, Tim Chase wrote:
                            >
                            > bill lam wrote:
                            > > On Thu, 04 Jun 2009, Efraim Yawitz wrote:
                            > >> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 2:55 AM, bill lam <cbill.lam@...> wrote:
                            > >>> I also swapped Esc with Capslock but using xmodmap. The position of
                            > >>> Esc should be where it was when the first vi was developed.
                            > >> Where is that?
                            > >
                            > > What is 'that'?
                            >
                            > I think "that" is the "position of the Esc [key] when the first
                            > vi was developed"

                            Thanks. Btw I like your mononono.

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                          • Florian Rehnisch
                            ... Well, I have mapped to C-K. I also have l_ctrl and capslock swapped. I like it. flori --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jun 4, 2009
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                              * Nathan Huesken <vim@...> [090601 15:48]:
                              > - To me it feels like the [Esc] key would be very unreachable (for a
                              > key which has to be pressed very often). How do other vim user cope with
                              > this?

                              Well, I have mapped <esc> to C-K. I also have l_ctrl and
                              capslock swapped. I like it.

                              flori

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                            • pansz
                              ... IMO the position of : (colon) should be where it was when the first vi was developed. i.e. it does not require pressing the shift key.
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jun 4, 2009
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                                bill lam 写道:
                                > On Wed, 03 Jun 2009, Andreas Bernauer wrote:
                                >> Nathan Huesken wrote:
                                >>> - To me it feels like the [Esc] key would be very unreachable (for a
                                >>> key which has to be pressed very often). How do other vim user cope with
                                >>> this?
                                >> I mapped Esc to CapsLock with xkbcomp as I never user CapsLock. Works great for me.
                                >
                                > I also swapped Esc with Capslock but using xmodmap. The position of
                                > Esc should be where it was when the first vi was developed.
                                >

                                IMO the position of : (colon) should be where it was when the first vi
                                was developed. i.e. it does not require pressing the shift key.


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                              • Teemu Likonen
                                ... When the first Vi was developed keyboards (and operating systems) were quite unusable for lot of languages. What s a frequently used key in one language
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jun 4, 2009
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                                  On 2009-06-05 11:48 (+0800), pansz wrote:

                                  > IMO the position of : (colon) should be where it was when the first vi
                                  > was developed. i.e. it does not require pressing the shift key.

                                  When the first Vi was developed keyboards (and operating systems) were
                                  quite unusable for lot of languages. What's a frequently used key in one
                                  language may not be frequently used in some other language. Colon (:)
                                  needs a Shift key in the Finnish keyboard and this is good because there
                                  are many other, more frequently needed keys which are better located in
                                  non-Shifted positions. In general a user interface shouldn't depend too
                                  much on the physical location of keys.

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                                • Tony Mechelynck
                                  ... That kind of reasoning reeks of Progress is impossible; every change is necessarily for the worse . Should we go back to the first version of the first Vi
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jun 5, 2009
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                                    On 04/06/09 01:55, bill lam wrote:
                                    > On Wed, 03 Jun 2009, Andreas Bernauer wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> Nathan Huesken wrote:
                                    >>> - To me it feels like the [Esc] key would be very unreachable (for a
                                    >>> key which has to be pressed very often). How do other vim user cope with
                                    >>> this?
                                    >>
                                    >> I mapped Esc to CapsLock with xkbcomp as I never user CapsLock. Works great for me.
                                    >
                                    > I also swapped Esc with Capslock but using xmodmap. The position of
                                    > Esc should be where it was when the first vi was developed.
                                    >

                                    That kind of reasoning reeks of "Progress is impossible; every change is
                                    necessarily for the worse". Should we go back to the first version of
                                    the first Vi then? Do it if you want; I won't. I prefer Vim's
                                    'nocompatible' mode, its support of arrow keys, numeric-keypad keys and
                                    (e.g. for user mappings or for the F1=Help function) F keys, none of
                                    which existed in that primitive keyboard. Also multiple split-windows,
                                    scripts in a true programming language with if/elseif/end/endif,
                                    try/case/finally/endtry, autocommands, variables which may be Integer,
                                    String, Float, List or Dictionary, and so on and so forth. I _do_
                                    believe in today's version being better than that of thirty years ago.
                                    (Within limits: I'm not a convert to the Dvorak keyboard, and I don't
                                    use a keyboard in two separate pieces, one for each hand. There are also
                                    such things as misguided "improvements".)

                                    In fact I like the Esc key being "safely out of the way": it means that
                                    I don't risk hitting it when I want something else, or something else
                                    when I want it. But, in typical Vim fashion, other solutions are
                                    available for people with other preferences, and several have been
                                    mentioned in this thread:
                                    - use Ctrl-[ which is, to Vim, a synonym of Esc
                                    - map it by Vim means tooo something you don't use
                                    - map it by OS means to something you don't use -- I've seen Caps Lock
                                    mentioned; but that's a key which I personally do use, for instance for

                                    TITLES
                                    ------

                                    for EMPHASIS, for Unicode codepoint names (which are by convention
                                    always in all caps), or when imitating the style of the RFC's, where the
                                    expressions SHOULD, SHOULD NOT, MUST, MUST NOT, MAY, etc., have a
                                    conventional meaning when they are printed in all caps.


                                    Best regards,
                                    Tony.
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                                  • bill lam
                                    On Sat, 06 Jun 2009, Tony Mechelynck wrote: That kind of reasoning reeks of Progress is impossible; every change is necessarily for the worse . Should we
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jun 5, 2009
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                                      On Sat, 06 Jun 2009, Tony Mechelynck wrote:
                                      > That kind of reasoning reeks of "Progress is impossible; every change is
                                      > necessarily for the worse". Should we go back to the first version of
                                      > the first Vi then? Do it if you want; I won't. I prefer Vim's

                                      I think that you might misunderstand my message, I did not imply the
                                      original vi or that ancient keyboard are better. OP questioned why
                                      the frequently used key [esc] is located in such an unreachable position.

                                      Swapping doesn't mean disable capslock, pressing the esc will just do
                                      the capslock's job.

                                      How to press the escape key is just a personal preference, but for I,
                                      a touch typist, swapping it with capslock is more convenient.

                                      ymmv

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                                    • Roberto Miura Honji
                                      2009/6/1 Nathan Huesken ... I exchanged esc key and caps-lock key using xmodmap. *File to xmodmap:* remove Lock = Caps_Lock keysym Escape
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jun 9, 2009
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                                        2009/6/1 Nathan Huesken <vim@...>

                                        Hello dear vim users,

                                        I am completly new to vim, and I have a few questions:

                                        - To me it feels like the [Esc] key would be very unreachable (for a
                                        key which has to be pressed very often). How do other vim user cope with
                                        this?
                                        I exchanged esc key and caps-lock key using xmodmap.

                                        File to xmodmap:
                                        remove Lock = Caps_Lock
                                        keysym Escape = Caps_Lock
                                        keysym Caps_Lock = Escape
                                        add Lock = Caps_Lock

                                        - I would like to use vim to write C++. I need gdb and I find it very
                                        usefull to have gdb integrated into the editor. I find several plugins
                                        for gdb ... are they all good or should I stick to specific one?

                                        In attach a script that I'm working to integrated vim with gdb. It's not complete yet, any sugestion send me a e-mail.

                                        How to use:
                                        :source gdbdebugger.vim
                                        :GdbVim <Path-to-executable-file>

                                        Now you are on gdb-mod.
                                        b - Create a new breakpoint on line under cursor
                                        r  - Run
                                        n - Next
                                        s - Step
                                        p - Print value of variable under cursor (using word)
                                        P - Print value of variable under cursor (using WORD)
                                        c - Continue
                                        q - quit gdb.
                                        <ESC> - go out of gdb-mode.


                                        - When I press {, I like the } to be inserted with it. When I press }
                                        int front of a {, I would like to jump over the } (look at eclipse
                                        behavior for an example. Is this possible?

                                        For this you already have a good answers.


                                        Thanks!
                                        Nathan





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                                      • Tony Mechelynck
                                        ... Maybe I lacked sleep or something: rereading that post, it seems more flamy than my usual. It is of course a personal preference, but maybe what
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jun 9, 2009
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                                          On 06/06/09 02:48, bill lam wrote:
                                          > On Sat, 06 Jun 2009, Tony Mechelynck wrote:
                                          >> That kind of reasoning reeks of "Progress is impossible; every change is
                                          >> necessarily for the worse". Should we go back to the first version of
                                          >> the first Vi then? Do it if you want; I won't. I prefer Vim's
                                          >
                                          > I think that you might misunderstand my message, I did not imply the
                                          > original vi or that ancient keyboard are better. OP questioned why
                                          > the frequently used key [esc] is located in such an unreachable position.
                                          >
                                          > Swapping doesn't mean disable capslock, pressing the esc will just do
                                          > the capslock's job.
                                          >
                                          > How to press the escape key is just a personal preference, but for I,
                                          > a touch typist, swapping it with capslock is more convenient.
                                          >
                                          > ymmv
                                          >

                                          Maybe I lacked sleep or something: rereading that post, it seems more
                                          "flamy" than my usual. It is of course a personal preference, but maybe
                                          what triggered my ire was the flat-out, unqualified statement that the
                                          Esc key "should" be where it was on the keyboard used by the author of
                                          the original Vi, i.e., at the left end of one of the letter rows. I
                                          probably wouldn't have reacted to a post saying "I prefer" the Esc key
                                          where most people have CapsLock nowadays.

                                          The fact that I prefer Esc out of the way may be due to the fact that
                                          I'm not what people call a "touch typist": I type fast enough, but
                                          mostly with the five fingers of my right hand, which I let move left and
                                          right above the keyboard the way a pianist's or organist's hands move
                                          over the instrument's keyboard depending on which kays they have to
                                          press next.

                                          I have a sister who is a touch typist, and what's more, for both AZERTY
                                          and QWERTY (but of course not both at the same time), but I've never
                                          heard her say that she would like some keys to be swapped.


                                          Best regards,
                                          Tony.
                                          --
                                          Earn cash in your spare time -- blackmail your friends

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                                        • Carsten Agger
                                          I currently like to use vim as an ebook reader, using commands like L, H and z to navigate the text. Only one thing bothers me: The cursor, which is always
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jun 9, 2009
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                                            I currently like to use vim as an ebook reader, using commands like L, H
                                            and z<CR> to navigate the text.

                                            Only one thing bothers me: The cursor, which is always the somewhere,
                                            blinking away. Is there a way to hide/disable it?

                                            The cursor is of course important, but while I'm not using it, I don't
                                            have to see it, I think.

                                            Maybe there's a simple solution, but :help cursor didn't yield anything
                                            helpful.

                                            Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

                                            br
                                            Carsten Agger
                                            Denmark

                                            --
                                            http://www.modspil.dk
                                            http://www.faklen.dk/en


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                                          • Jürgen Krämer
                                            Hi, ... have a look at ... if you are using a GUI version or running Vim in a Win32 console, or at ... if you are running Vim in terminal. Regards, Jürgen --
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jun 9, 2009
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                                              Hi,

                                              Carsten Agger wrote:
                                              > I currently like to use vim as an ebook reader, using commands like L, H
                                              > and z<CR> to navigate the text.
                                              >
                                              > Only one thing bothers me: The cursor, which is always the somewhere,
                                              > blinking away. Is there a way to hide/disable it?
                                              >
                                              > The cursor is of course important, but while I'm not using it, I don't
                                              > have to see it, I think.
                                              >
                                              > Maybe there's a simple solution, but :help cursor didn't yield anything
                                              > helpful.

                                              have a look at

                                              :help 'guicursor'

                                              if you are using a GUI version or running Vim in a Win32 console, or at

                                              :help termcap-cursor-shape

                                              if you are running Vim in terminal.

                                              Regards,
                                              Jürgen

                                              --
                                              Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere
                                              in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. (Calvin)

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                                            • pansz
                                              ... There s a script to use vim as less (the cursorless viewer mode designed for ebook reader): /usr/local/share/vim/vim72/macros/less.sh if you compiled vim
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jun 9, 2009
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                                                Carsten Agger 写道:
                                                > I currently like to use vim as an ebook reader, using commands like L, H
                                                > and z<CR> to navigate the text.
                                                >
                                                > Only one thing bothers me: The cursor, which is always the somewhere,
                                                > blinking away. Is there a way to hide/disable it?
                                                >
                                                > The cursor is of course important, but while I'm not using it, I don't
                                                > have to see it, I think.
                                                >
                                                > Maybe there's a simple solution, but :help cursor didn't yield anything
                                                > helpful.
                                                >
                                                > Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

                                                There's a script to use vim as less (the cursorless viewer mode designed
                                                for ebook reader):

                                                /usr/local/share/vim/vim72/macros/less.sh

                                                if you compiled vim for your own it should be at the above directory, if
                                                not, you should found at similar directory such as

                                                /usr/share/vim/vim72/macros/less.sh



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                                              • John Beckett
                                                ... By the way, you may like to try two columns: http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/View_text_file_in_two_columns One column of text is enough for me, but sometimes
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Jun 9, 2009
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                                                  Carsten Agger wrote:
                                                  > I currently like to use vim as an ebook reader, using
                                                  > commands like L, H and z<CR> to navigate the text.

                                                  By the way, you may like to try two columns:
                                                  http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/View_text_file_in_two_columns

                                                  One column of text is enough for me, but sometimes quick
                                                  browsing with two columns might be handy.

                                                  John


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                                                • Carsten Agger
                                                  ... Thanks a lot! guicursor=n-v-c:lcursor0-blinkon0 made the difference. regards, Carsten --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Jun 9, 2009
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                                                    tir, 09 06 2009 kl. 13:17 +0200, skrev Jürgen Krämer:
                                                    >
                                                    > Hi,
                                                    >
                                                    > Carsten Agger wrote:
                                                    > > I currently like to use vim as an ebook reader, using commands like L, H
                                                    > > and z<CR> to navigate the text.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Only one thing bothers me: The cursor, which is always the somewhere,
                                                    > > blinking away. Is there a way to hide/disable it?
                                                    > >
                                                    > > The cursor is of course important, but while I'm not using it, I don't
                                                    > > have to see it, I think.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Maybe there's a simple solution, but :help cursor didn't yield anything
                                                    > > helpful.
                                                    >
                                                    > have a look at
                                                    >
                                                    > :help 'guicursor'
                                                    >
                                                    > if you are using a GUI version or running Vim in a Win32 console, or at
                                                    >
                                                    > :help termcap-cursor-shape
                                                    >
                                                    > if you are running Vim in terminal.

                                                    Thanks a lot!

                                                    "guicursor=n-v-c:lcursor0-blinkon0 "

                                                    made the difference.

                                                    regards,

                                                    Carsten



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