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Re: Combining diacritical marks display as separate character

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  • Ron Aaron
    On Mar 12, 11:53 am, Tony Mechelynck ... I use it on Windows and Linux, and it works well on both. ... That is, in fact, what I
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 12, 2009
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      On Mar 12, 11:53 am, Tony Mechelynck <antoine.mechely...@...>
      wrote:
      > I don't have any problems with recent gvim versions (currently 7.2.141
      > but it already worked last week) and GTK2 2.14.4-8.6.2 on openSUSE 11.1.

      I use it on Windows and Linux, and it works well on both.

      > It can do Hebrew or Arabic but not with true bidi: what Vim does is give
      > you the option of displaying any window in either all RTL or all LTR.
      > You can even have the same file in split-windows, one of them LTR (with
      > English OK but Arabic or Hebrew wrong) and the other RTL (with Hebrew
      > and/or Arabic OK, including Arabic joining forms if 'arabicshape' is on
      > which is the default, but English wrong).

      That is, in fact, what I regularly do. I open a bilingual (English
      and Hebrew) file, split the window, and have one be LTR and the other
      RTL. Then I use XeLaTex to produce really nice output :)

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    • Kenneth Reid Beesley
      ... I m using MacVim Snapshot 43, with DejaVu Sans Mono, and the handling of Unicode, including the rendering of letters with combining diacritical marks, is
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 12, 2009
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        On 12 Mar 2009, at 07:51, Sven Siegmund wrote:

        >
        > Hello, thanks for the details,
        >
        > On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Tony Mechelynck
        > <antoine.mechelynck@...> wrote:
        >> Current versions of gvim can display (by default) two combining
        >> characters on any spacing character, which is usually enough for
        >> Arabic,
        >
        > Yep, two combining marks are enough for me.
        >
        >> Which exact version and patchlevel of gvim are you using? You might
        >> want
        >> to copy the first handful of lines from the output of
        >> ":version" (until
        >> the line with "Features included (+) or not (-)") -- see
        >> ":help :redir"
        >> about how to capture that kind of output. Also, when you type
        >
        > VIM - Vi IMproved 7.2 (2008 Aug 9, compiled Aug 9 2008 18:46:22)
        > MS-Windows 32-bit GUI version with OLE support
        > Compiled by Bram@KIBAALE
        > Big version with GUI.
        >
        >> :echo has('multi_byte')
        > 1
        >
        >> Also, what is your _full_ 'guifont' setting? If it ends in cANSI, I
        >> think you're in trouble -- cDEFAULT is usually better IMHO.
        >
        > "unicode encoding:
        > set enc=utf-8
        >
        > "set gui font
        > set guifont=DejaVu_Sans_Mono:h11:cDEFAULT
        >
        > set nocompatible
        > source $VIMRUNTIME/vimrc_example.vim
        > ...
        > ...
        > ...
        >
        > I explored the problem further. There is something wrong with gvim
        > interpreting deadkeys of the Windows-Keyboard layout. I could not type
        > "n" with combined circumflex because I tried to map the combining
        > circumflex on a dead key of my windows keyboard layout. When I map the
        > combining circumflex to another key it works and it gets displayed
        > well in gvim.
        >
        > I will explore the problems of remapping the dead keys of the windows
        > keyboard layout later. So far I could not google anything about this
        > issue in gvim in Windows.
        >
        > S.
        >
        > >


        I'm using MacVim Snapshot 43, with DejaVu Sans Mono, and the handling
        of Unicode, including the rendering of letters with combining
        diacritical marks, is surprisingly good.

        n+0x0302

        displays perfectly for me, with a circumflex placed nicely above the
        'n'. I sometimes work with orthographies for Native American
        languages, which sometimes require two combining diacritics on the
        same letter, and MacVim again does well. This is one of the (several)
        reasons that I made the painful move from emacs to vim.

        Ken

        ******************************
        Kenneth R. Beesley, D.Phil.
        P.O. Box 540475
        North Salt Lake, UT
        84054 USA






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      • Tony Mechelynck
        ... My pleasure. Beware: I m going to send this email in UTF-8 because of the text I ll be typing into it. ... [...] ... This means 7.2.0. I would recommend
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 12, 2009
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          On 12/03/09 14:51, Sven Siegmund wrote:
          > Hello, thanks for the details,

          My pleasure.

          Beware: I'm going to send this email in UTF-8 because of the text I'll
          be typing into it.

          >
          > On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Tony Mechelynck
          > <antoine.mechelynck@...> wrote:
          [...]
          >> Which exact version and patchlevel of gvim are you using? You might want
          >> to copy the first handful of lines from the output of ":version" (until
          >> the line with "Features included (+) or not (-)") -- see ":help :redir"
          >> about how to capture that kind of output. Also, when you type
          > VIM - Vi IMproved 7.2 (2008 Aug 9, compiled Aug 9 2008 18:46:22)
          > MS-Windows 32-bit GUI version with OLE support
          > Compiled by Bram@KIBAALE
          > Big version with GUI.

          This means 7.2.0. I would recommend that you install a more recent
          bugfixed versions, for instance (for Windows) one of Steve Hall's
          distributions at
          https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=43866&package_id=39721
          -- click the clipboard-like icon next to a download link to see when
          that build was compiled and what features are included.

          I'm not asying that a more recent build will necessarily cure _this_
          problem, but it is always worth doing, since it might cure _other_
          problems which you might be having. At
          http://ftp.vim.org/pub/vim/patches/7.2/README you can see a text file
          with a one-line description of every bugfix published sofar for Vim 7.2
          -- and whenever a new bugfix gets published, that README file is updated
          at the same time.

          >
          >> :echo has('multi_byte')
          > 1

          Good. Nonzero means "feature is present".

          >
          >> Also, what is your _full_ 'guifont' setting? If it ends in cANSI, I
          >> think you're in trouble -- cDEFAULT is usually better IMHO.
          > "unicode encoding:
          > set enc=utf-8
          >
          > "set gui font
          > set guifont=DejaVu_Sans_Mono:h11:cDEFAULT

          this ought to be all right.

          >
          > set nocompatible
          > source $VIMRUNTIME/vimrc_example.vim
          > ...
          > ...
          > ...
          >
          > I explored the problem further. There is something wrong with gvim
          > interpreting deadkeys of the Windows-Keyboard layout. I could not type
          > "n" with combined circumflex because I tried to map the combining
          > circumflex on a dead key of my windows keyboard layout. When I map the
          > combining circumflex to another key it works and it gets displayed
          > well in gvim.

          Aha! To enter any Unicode codepoint by its Unicode codepoint number in
          Vim, use the method described at |i_CTRL-V_digit|. Or if you frequently
          use some particular codepoints, you might want to use a keymap -- either
          a preexisting one if you find one that suits you, or else you can build
          your own: it isn't very hard once you get the hang of it. The
          "accents.vim" and "esperanto.vim" keymaps (in $VIMRUNTIME/keymap/) are
          small examples showing how keymaps are built. The relevant help is at
          |keymap-file-format|.

          -- Note that if you build your own keymap it should NOT go into
          $VIMRUNTIME/keymap/ (where any upgrade may silently destroy it) but into
          either $VIM/vimfiles/keymap/ (if you want to be able to access it from
          any Windows login name) or $HOME/vimfiles/keymap/ (to restrict it to one
          login name, since every "user" has a different $HOME directory). Create
          the needed directory, and maybe its parent too, if they don't yet exist.

          Of course Vim must see the keypress in order to act on it, and I suspect
          that Windows dead keas are retained by Windows (and not given to Vim)
          until you press something else (with which Windows, not Vim, will
          combine the "dead key"). And since "Unicode combining characters" must
          go _after_ the spacing character to which they apply, they are not
          really "dead keys" in the usual typewriter meaning of the expression: on
          my Belgian keyboard I hit "dead-circumflex" followed by c to get the
          _precombined_ Esperanto consonant ĉ (U+0109 LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH
          CIRCUMFLEX) but in Vim I type c first and ^Vu0302 afterwards to get the
          _composite_ codepoints ĉ [i.e. c (U+0063 LATIN SMALL LETTER C) followed
          by "dead-circumflex" (U+0302 COMBINING CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT)] which
          SeaMonkey 2.0b1pre erroneously does not overprint in the mail
          composition window -- I don't know about your mailer.

          >
          > I will explore the problems of remapping the dead keys of the windows
          > keyboard layout later. So far I could not google anything about this
          > issue in gvim in Windows.
          >
          > S.

          As far as I know, everything, but _everything_ about Vim behaviour is
          in the help. (Obviously, the fine points of _Windows_ behaviour are not
          in the _Vim_ help.) To find your precious needle (any needle) in the Vim
          help^H^H^H^Hhaystack (which is admittedly a huge one), use the following
          starting points (magnets, if you will ;-) since sewing needles are
          usually made of steel):

          :help
          :help :help
          :help {subject}
          where {subject} means exactly open-brace, small-ess,
          small-you, small-bee, small-jay, small-eeh, small-cee,
          small-tee, close-brace. No fancy replacing (yet).
          :help :helpgrep

          which will explain progressively more complex methods of finding your
          way about the help.



          Best regards,
          Tony.
          --
          Mustgo, n.:
          Any item of food that has been sitting in the refrigerator so
          long it has become a science project.
          -- Sniglets, "Rich Hall & Friends"

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        • Tony Mechelynck
          ... What I use to produce real nice true-bidi output is my browser -- SeaMonkey 2.0b1pre, but Firefox 3 (3.0 or 3.1 I m not sure) uses identically the same
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 12, 2009
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            On 12/03/09 11:56, Ron Aaron wrote:
            > On Mar 12, 11:53 am, Tony Mechelynck<antoine.mechely...@...>
            > wrote:
            >> I don't have any problems with recent gvim versions (currently 7.2.141
            >> but it already worked last week) and GTK2 2.14.4-8.6.2 on openSUSE 11.1.
            > I use it on Windows and Linux, and it works well on both.
            >
            >> It can do Hebrew or Arabic but not with true bidi: what Vim does is give
            >> you the option of displaying any window in either all RTL or all LTR.
            >> You can even have the same file in split-windows, one of them LTR (with
            >> English OK but Arabic or Hebrew wrong) and the other RTL (with Hebrew
            >> and/or Arabic OK, including Arabic joining forms if 'arabicshape' is on
            >> which is the default, but English wrong).
            > That is, in fact, what I regularly do. I open a bilingual (English
            > and Hebrew) file, split the window, and have one be LTR and the other
            > RTL. Then I use XeLaTex to produce really nice output :)

            What I use to produce real nice true-bidi output is my browser --
            SeaMonkey 2.0b1pre, but Firefox 3 (3.0 or 3.1 I'm not sure) uses
            identically the same rendering engine, and any "good" browser ought to
            do well, which is not to say all of them indeed do, for the kind of
            files which I use, namely HTML and plain text.


            Best regards,
            Tony.
            --
            There was a plane crash over mid-ocean, and only three survivors were
            left in the life-raft: the Pope, the President, and Mayor Daley.
            Unfortunately, it was a one-man life-raft, and quickly sinking, so they
            started debating who should be allowed to stay.

            The Pope pointed out that he was the spiritual leader of millions all
            over the world, the President explained that if he died then America
            would be stuck with the Vice-President, and so forth. Then Mayor Daley
            said, "Look! We're not solving anything like this! The only fair
            thing to do is to vote on it." So they did, and Mayor Daley won by 97
            votes.

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