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Re: Inputting the newer unicode characters

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  • Tony Mechelynck
    ... See :help i_CTRL-V_digit Ctrl-V u is for Unicode codepoints in the BMP (i.e., U+0000 to U+FFFF). After that, use an uppercase U (i.e., shift-u): Ctrl-V U
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 30, 2007
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      Eze wrote:
      > Greetings!
      >
      > Does anybody know how to input, for instance, U+1D434 in vim (a "math"
      > uppercase "A")? By using the sequence CTRL-V u 1D434 vim
      > understandably only reads 1D43, getting "ᵃ4".
      >
      > Many thanks in advance.
      >
      > Cheers,
      >
      > Eze


      See ":help i_CTRL-V_digit"

      Ctrl-V u is for Unicode codepoints in the BMP (i.e., U+0000 to U+FFFF). After
      that, use an uppercase U (i.e., shift-u):

      Ctrl-V U 0001D434

      (the initial zeros may be omitted if the sequence is followed by a keypress
      other than [0-9A-Fa-f].)

      A limitation of current versions of Vim is that codepoints above U+FFFF are
      displayed as question marks (with the proper width). The data is entered
      correctly into the file, and ga and g8 show the correct values. Someone
      (Edward L. Fox IIRC) said he'd look into it but I haven't heard from him about
      it recently.



      Best regards,
      Tony.
      --
      Reality is just a convenient measure of complexity.
      -- Alvy Ray Smith

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    • Tony Mechelynck
      Kenneth Beesley wrote: [...] ... [...] It s the same on Linux: AFAIK, that s a platform-independent limitation of current (and past) versions of gvim. IIRC,
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 30, 2007
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        Kenneth Beesley wrote:
        [...]
        > 2. That (I believe) will put the Math Uppercase A into the buffer,
        > and you can write the buffer out to
        > file (e.g. in UTF-8) successfully, that doesn't mean
        > that vim can display/render it. The last I heard (months ago) was
        > that vim was generally unable
        > to render Supplementary chars, even if you specify a font that
        > contains the glyphs you need in the
        > supplementary area. The situation on Linux may be different.
        > Updates/corrections from vim experts would be welcome.
        [...]

        It's the same on Linux: AFAIK, that's a platform-independent limitation of
        current (and past) versions of gvim. IIRC, Edward L. Fox had said he'd look
        into it but I don't know how far he got.


        Best regards,
        Tony.
        --
        A wanton young lady from Wimley
        Reproached for not acting quite primly
        Said, "Heavens above!
        I know sex isn't love,
        But it's such an entrancing facsimile."

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      • Eze
        Thanks a lot to you both for your insights. Ken, if I may ask, what exactly do you use to see/work with/input unicode characters? All information will be
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 31, 2007
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          Thanks a lot to you both for your insights. Ken, if I may ask, what
          exactly do you use to see/work with/input unicode characters? All
          information will be appreciated, such as linux distribution, desktop
          manager, text editor, etcetera.

          Best regards,

          Eze


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        • Tony Mechelynck
          ... I don t know what Ken does, but I use gvim to input any unicode codepoints, and any browser (Firefox, SeaMonkey, or, depending on platform, Konqueror, IE,
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 31, 2007
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            Eze wrote:
            > Thanks a lot to you both for your insights. Ken, if I may ask, what
            > exactly do you use to see/work with/input unicode characters? All
            > information will be appreciated, such as linux distribution, desktop
            > manager, text editor, etcetera.
            >
            > Best regards,
            >
            > Eze

            I don't know what Ken does, but I use gvim to input any unicode codepoints,
            and any browser (Firefox, SeaMonkey, or, depending on platform, Konqueror, IE,
            Safari, etc.) to visualise those outside the BMP.


            Best regards,
            Tony.
            --
            Boob's Law:
            You always find something in the last place you look.

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          • Kenneth Beesley
            Hi Eze, For my Unicode editing needs, I try to survey the field once or twice a year. It s been a while since I last looked, so my information is probably out
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 4, 2007
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              Hi Eze,

              For my Unicode editing needs, I try to survey the field once or twice
              a year.
              It's been a while since I last looked, so my information is probably
              out of date.
              I can't keep up with all the Unicode-editing options.

              My Unicode-editing needs are somewhat unusual. I occasionally need to
              type Arabic script, and I definitely need Unicode combining
              diacritics and
              supplementary characters. I insist on being able to write my own
              input methods,
              and I'd like a solution that works in OS X, Linux and perhaps even
              Windows.
              I haven't found a perfect solution yet for my needs.

              On the Mac, which I use most often, TextEdit (supplied with OS X) does a
              much better than average job of _rendering_ the Unicode characters
              that you
              type. It has a built-in set of default fonts that so far have
              rendered almost
              anything that I've wanted to type, including Shavian and Deseret.
              Combining
              diacritics are (to the extent that I've tested them) handled
              acceptably, even
              rather well--this is a weak point in many other allegedly Unicode-
              savvy editors.
              However, if you are used to a full-featured text editor like vim
              or emacs, then TextEdit hardly seems like a text editor at all. Too
              limited in
              commands and overall functionality. I'm glad that TextEdit is
              available,
              but I use it reluctantly.

              TextEdit can use Apple Input Methods, many of which are supplied, and
              you can (with some difficulty) define your own so that you can type in
              Arabic, Cyrillic, Greek, Shavian, Deseret or whatever using your own
              favorite
              keyboard mapping or input method. I'm a firm believer that you ought to
              be able to define your own personal input methods (or keyboard-layout
              emulations)
              so that you can do it Your Way, even if dozens of input methods
              are already available. There are (or were) some bugs in the
              interpretation of Apple
              Input Methods, and fixing them seems to be very low priority at
              Apple. I need
              to recheck the status.

              I need to take another look at the commercial text editors available
              for OS X.

              I also work a lot with Unicode in XML, and I have purchased a license
              for the oXygen
              XML editor. oXygen is Java-based and so can use Java Input Methods,
              which
              are much better documented and easier to define than Apple Input
              Methods.
              oXygen can also be used to edit plain-text Unicode files. It renders
              Unicode
              to the extent that Java Swing text widgets render Unicode, which is
              pretty
              well. Installing new Unicode TrueType/OpenType fonts inside your Java
              installation, to allow the rendering of exotic characters, can be a
              challenge
              for the casual user.

              In addition to the commercial oXygen, there are a few other Java-based
              text editors that you might explore. I need to look at them again.
              Typically
              such editors are based on Java Swing text widgets, can use TrueType or
              OpenType fonts, and Java Input Methods. You can define your own Java
              Input Methods, but it'll be hard if you're not a hacker. The freely
              available kmap_ime.jar
              and kmap_ime_gui.jar are Java-Input-Method wrappers that allow you to
              use input methods expressed as Yudit-style .kmap files as if they were
              Java Input Methods. (Yudit .kmap files are very similar in format
              and semantics
              to the vim keymap files.)

              The Yudit editor is notable for its flexible handling of fonts,
              rendering Unicode, and
              allowing you to define your own input methods easily, but like
              TextEdit it hardly seems
              like a text editor at all to someone used to emacs or vim.

              Traditionally I've used emacs, but emacs does not use Unicode
              internally,
              instead providing what I find to be an awkward and very incomplete
              way of
              mapping between its internal MULE-encoded internal representation and
              Unicode files on input/output. In practice, the set of input methods
              available for emacs is MULE-based and closed. emacs has seriously
              dragged its
              feet on Unicode implementation.

              When it comes to Unicode implementation, vim is (in my opinion) much
              more
              promising than emacs. Vim seems to do an excellent internal job of
              reading, editing,
              and writing Unicode. Vim keymaps, for typing in Unicode chars, are
              _very_
              easy to define or modify, and they fit my needs perfectly. The
              remaining problems
              (from my point of view) with vim are these

              1. Failure to render Unicode characters from the supplementary area
              (I can't
              edit a screen full of question marks)
              2. The limitation to fixed-width fonts (A profound nuisance/
              limitation. Vim
              on Linux can use variable-width fonts, but it still works much better
              with fixed-
              width fonts.)

              On Linux, consider Java-based solutions such as oXygen. In Gnome
              there's
              gedit, but (the last time I looked) the definition and addition of
              new input
              methods for gedit was poorly documented and required some background
              hacking. I managed it once, but it's not acceptably easy or acceptably
              documented, in my opinion.

              I'm not acquainted with KDE (the alternative to Gnome in Linux). Is
              anyone
              out there acquainted with the kedit editor?

              I'm not acquainted with Microsoft/PC solutions.

              I need to look at OpenOffice solutions.

              Corrections/Comments/Suggestions would be Very Welcome

              I don't have an axe to grind--I just need to edit Unicode (including
              Arabic,
              Cyrillic, Supplementary Characters, Combining Diacritics) and I
              insist on
              being able to write my own input methods. I'd like a solution (with
              input
              methods) that works across multiple operating systems. I'd like to use
              TrueType/OpenType fonts, without a fixed-width limitation, and be
              able to
              use virtual fonts that combine glyphs from a set of user-designated real
              fonts. And I want a full-featured user-interface like that in vim or
              emacs.

              I would welcome pointers to other Unicode-editing solutions that I
              may have overlooked.

              Ken




              On 31 Aug 2007, at 15:48, Eze wrote:

              >
              > Thanks a lot to you both for your insights. Ken, if I may ask, what
              > exactly do you use to see/work with/input unicode characters? All
              > information will be appreciated, such as linux distribution, desktop
              > manager, text editor, etcetera.
              >
              > Best regards,
              >
              > Eze
              >
              >
              > >


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            • Kenneth Beesley
              Tony, If I were just typing in a Supplementary character here and there, or even an isolated word, I would use a similar solution. However, I m editing
              Message 6 of 13 , Sep 4, 2007
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                Tony,

                If I were just typing in a Supplementary character here and there,
                or even an isolated word, I would use a similar solution.

                However, I'm editing (proofreading) chapter-length texts consisting of
                supplementary characters, and when I open such a text in vim and
                see nothing but a screenful of question marks, you can imagine
                my disappointment.

                Best wishes,

                Ken



                On 31 Aug 2007, at 23:19, Tony Mechelynck wrote:

                >
                > Eze wrote:
                >> Thanks a lot to you both for your insights. Ken, if I may ask, what
                >> exactly do you use to see/work with/input unicode characters? All
                >> information will be appreciated, such as linux distribution, desktop
                >> manager, text editor, etcetera.
                >>
                >> Best regards,
                >>
                >> Eze
                >
                > I don't know what Ken does, but I use gvim to input any unicode
                > codepoints,
                > and any browser (Firefox, SeaMonkey, or, depending on platform,
                > Konqueror, IE,
                > Safari, etc.) to visualise those outside the BMP.
                >
                >
                > Best regards,
                > Tony.
                > --
                > Boob's Law:
                > You always find something in the last place you look.
                >
                > >


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              • Nico Weber
                Hi, ... This should be fixed with the current svn version, at least for gvim (if you have the necessary fonts). Nico
                Message 7 of 13 , Sep 23, 2007
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                  Hi,

                  > I'd like to switch over to vim, but I work a lot with exotic Unicode
                  > characters
                  > in the supplementary area. When I last looked into vim, and
                  > experimented
                  > with keymaps, I found that I could easily enter any Unicode char, and
                  > save
                  > the results to file---and the Unicode chars in the file were
                  > correct. But as
                  > long as I couldn't _see_ my character glyphs rendered on the screen,
                  > vim wasn't
                  > acceptable as an editor. All I could see were boxes (or question
                  > marks--I can't
                  > remember which).

                  This should be fixed with the current svn version, at least for gvim
                  (if you have the necessary fonts).

                  Nico

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                • Kenneth Beesley
                  Nico, This is great news. Many thanks for the message. Ken ... --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message from the
                  Message 8 of 13 , Sep 23, 2007
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                    Nico,

                    This is great news. Many thanks for the message.

                    Ken


                    On 23 Sep 2007, at 09:46, Nico Weber wrote:

                    >
                    > Hi,
                    >
                    >> I'd like to switch over to vim, but I work a lot with exotic Unicode
                    >> characters
                    >> in the supplementary area. When I last looked into vim, and
                    >> experimented
                    >> with keymaps, I found that I could easily enter any Unicode char, and
                    >> save
                    >> the results to file---and the Unicode chars in the file were
                    >> correct. But as
                    >> long as I couldn't _see_ my character glyphs rendered on the screen,
                    >> vim wasn't
                    >> acceptable as an editor. All I could see were boxes (or question
                    >> marks--I can't
                    >> remember which).
                    >
                    > This should be fixed with the current svn version, at least for gvim
                    > (if you have the necessary fonts).
                    >
                    > Nico
                    >
                    > >


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                  • Tony Mechelynck
                    ... Yes: even for people who don t use SVN (but CVS, A-A-P, ftp, whatever), it is patch 7.1.116, and works for me. Best regards, Tony. -- Water? Never touch
                    Message 9 of 13 , Sep 23, 2007
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                      Nico Weber wrote:
                      > Hi,
                      >
                      >> I'd like to switch over to vim, but I work a lot with exotic Unicode
                      >> characters
                      >> in the supplementary area. When I last looked into vim, and
                      >> experimented
                      >> with keymaps, I found that I could easily enter any Unicode char, and
                      >> save
                      >> the results to file---and the Unicode chars in the file were
                      >> correct. But as
                      >> long as I couldn't _see_ my character glyphs rendered on the screen,
                      >> vim wasn't
                      >> acceptable as an editor. All I could see were boxes (or question
                      >> marks--I can't
                      >> remember which).
                      >
                      > This should be fixed with the current svn version, at least for gvim
                      > (if you have the necessary fonts).
                      >
                      > Nico

                      Yes: even for people who don't use SVN (but CVS, A-A-P, ftp, whatever), it is
                      patch 7.1.116, and works for me.


                      Best regards,
                      Tony.
                      --
                      "Water? Never touch the stuff! Fish fuck in it."
                      -- W. C. Fields

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