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Re: Dynamically loading Python library

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  • björn
    ... I don t think it is a feasible solution...e.g. what happens the next time the API changes? No, I think loading Python dynamically is out of the question.
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 3, 2008
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      2008/11/3 Ben Schmidt <mail_ben_schmidt@...>:
      >
      > You could ask the Python guys to try to find out exactly what the API
      > changes are and whether they apply to Vim or not, but this could be
      > difficult to ascertain--these things tend to be a bit of a haystack. On
      > the other hand, it could be the change is very simple and irrelevant,
      > and you can just somehow disable the warning--if this is a likely
      > scenario, the Python guys almost certainly will have provided a way to
      > disable it.

      I don't think it is a feasible solution...e.g. what happens the next
      time the API changes? No, I think loading Python dynamically is out
      of the question. :(

      > If it can't be ascertained whether change is irrelevant, or it can be
      > ascertained that it *is* relevant, it would be technically possible to
      > make a Vim that worked with both API versions, but you'd have to
      > basically duplicate if_python.c, change all the function names so there
      > were two versions of each, compile one against the 2.3 API and another
      > against the 2.5 API and then have a runtime check to decide which
      > version of the functions to call. It would be quite a refactoring job,
      > and I would say not worth the effort.

      Ugh, yeah, that's no good either.

      > One definite solution, though not ideal, but which is easy to set up for
      > building, as well as easy for users to understand: have separate MacVim
      > builds for Tiger and Leopard. Stacks of apps do it, and Mac users are
      > fairly used to downloading the version appropriate to their OS version.

      It seems this is the only way to go then. But...I wonder if it really
      is worth my time making two distributions just so a few users get to
      use Python 2.5 instead of 2.3. I think I need a better reason than
      that for something as drastic as distributing two different versions
      of the binary. Maybe I underestimate the number of users who would
      benefit from 2.5, but for now I'll just keep building with 2.3. :-/

      Thanks to everybody for the feedback,
      Björn

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    • Jason Foreman
      On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:55 AM, björn wrote: 2008/11/3 Ben Schmidt : have separate MacVim
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 3, 2008
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        On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:55 AM, björn <bjorn.winckler@...> wrote:
        > 2008/11/3 Ben Schmidt <mail_ben_schmidt@...>:
        >> have separate MacVim builds for Tiger and Leopard.
        >
        > It seems this is the only way to go then. But...I wonder if it really
        > is worth my time making two distributions just so a few users get to
        > use Python 2.5 instead of 2.3. I think I need a better reason than
        > that for something as drastic as distributing two different versions
        > of the binary. Maybe I underestimate the number of users who would
        > benefit from 2.5, but for now I'll just keep building with 2.3. :-/

        FWIW, I've been toying with the idea of making my own Leopard-only
        builds available recently. I always build my MacVim from source using
        Python 2.5 and 10.5 SDK. I do also use a couple of extra patches in
        my build (relative number, Lua, working on vimgdb). If there is
        interest, I could put my builds up somewhere for others to use. My
        main concern would be increasing the support load due to unofficial
        builds floating around.

        Jason

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      • Matt Tolton
        ... What about feature freezing the current 10.4 version and continuing development for 10.5 only? Then you could enable garbage collection which would be
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 3, 2008
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          > It seems this is the only way to go then. But...I wonder if it really
          > is worth my time making two distributions just so a few users get to
          > use Python 2.5 instead of 2.3. I think I need a better reason than
          > that for something as drastic as distributing two different versions
          > of the binary. Maybe I underestimate the number of users who would
          > benefit from 2.5, but for now I'll just keep building with 2.3. :-/

          What about feature freezing the current 10.4 version and continuing
          development for 10.5 only? Then you could enable garbage collection
          which would be much more convenient for development -- this issue bugs
          me especially because if someone wants to make a plugin, I'm pretty
          sure they can't use garbage collection since MacVim doesn't.

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        • Nico Weber
          ... That sounds reasonable. ... I don t use Tiger, but I don t think dropping Tiger already is a good idea (see e.g. http://update.omnigroup.com/). Nico
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 3, 2008
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            >> It seems this is the only way to go then. But...I wonder if it
            >> really
            >> is worth my time making two distributions just so a few users get to
            >> use Python 2.5 instead of 2.3. I think I need a better reason than
            >> that for something as drastic as distributing two different versions
            >> of the binary. Maybe I underestimate the number of users who would
            >> benefit from 2.5, but for now I'll just keep building with 2.3. :-/

            That sounds reasonable.

            > What about feature freezing the current 10.4 version and continuing
            > development for 10.5 only? Then you could enable garbage collection
            > which would be much more convenient for development -- this issue bugs
            > me especially because if someone wants to make a plugin, I'm pretty
            > sure they can't use garbage collection since MacVim doesn't.

            I don't use Tiger, but I don't think dropping Tiger already is a good
            idea (see e.g. http://update.omnigroup.com/).

            Nico

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          • Ben Schmidt
            ... +1. Real Python-heads can always compile themselves. ... I agree, but I do use Tiger. 10.4.9. :-) Ben.
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 4, 2008
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              Nico Weber wrote:
              >>> It seems this is the only way to go then. But...I wonder if it
              >>> really
              >>> is worth my time making two distributions just so a few users get to
              >>> use Python 2.5 instead of 2.3. I think I need a better reason than
              >>> that for something as drastic as distributing two different versions
              >>> of the binary. Maybe I underestimate the number of users who would
              >>> benefit from 2.5, but for now I'll just keep building with 2.3. :-/
              >
              > That sounds reasonable.

              +1.

              Real Python-heads can always compile themselves.

              >> What about feature freezing the current 10.4 version and continuing
              >> development for 10.5 only? Then you could enable garbage collection
              >> which would be much more convenient for development -- this issue bugs
              >> me especially because if someone wants to make a plugin, I'm pretty
              >> sure they can't use garbage collection since MacVim doesn't.
              >
              > I don't use Tiger, but I don't think dropping Tiger already is a good
              > idea (see e.g. http://update.omnigroup.com/).

              I agree, but I do use Tiger. 10.4.9. :-)

              Ben.




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            • Panos
              I was pestering Bjorn about making python be dynamically loaded, but I went ahead a compiled from source. Easy as pie, plus now I have python 2.5 support :)
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 4, 2008
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                I was pestering Bjorn about making python be dynamically loaded, but I
                went ahead a compiled from source. Easy as pie, plus now I have python
                2.5 support :)

                Thanks for making it that easy, although I still believe that people
                that actually use python are way past 2.3 by now.

                Still it's easier to have them compile it themselves, than to ask them
                to move up a version of their OS, so I see why we're having this
                issue.

                It should be made easier to pick python version depending on the build
                platform, hope we can figure this out.

                On Nov 4, 12:17 pm, Ben Schmidt <mail_ben_schm...@...> wrote:
                > Nico Weber wrote:
                > >>> It seems this is the only way to go then.  But...I wonder if it  
                > >>> really
                > >>> is worth my time making two distributions just so a few users get to
                > >>> use Python 2.5 instead of 2.3.  I think I need a better reason than
                > >>> that for something as drastic as distributing two different versions
                > >>> of the binary.  Maybe I underestimate the number of users who would
                > >>> benefit from 2.5, but for now I'll just keep building with 2.3.  :-/
                >
                > > That sounds reasonable.
                >
                > +1.
                >
                > Real Python-heads can always compile themselves.
                >
                > >> What about feature freezing the current 10.4 version and continuing
                > >> development for 10.5 only?  Then you could enable garbage collection
                > >> which would be much more convenient for development -- this issue bugs
                > >> me especially because if someone wants to make a plugin, I'm pretty
                > >> sure they can't use garbage collection since MacVim doesn't.
                >
                > > I don't use Tiger, but I don't think dropping Tiger already is a good  
                > > idea (see e.g.http://update.omnigroup.com/).
                >
                > I agree, but I do use Tiger. 10.4.9. :-)
                >
                > Ben.
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              • björn
                ... Jason, feel free to make your own builds available -- I have no objections to this. (Sorry for taking so long to reply to your post!) Björn
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 7, 2008
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                  2008/11/3 Jason Foreman <jason@...>:
                  >
                  > FWIW, I've been toying with the idea of making my own Leopard-only
                  > builds available recently. I always build my MacVim from source using
                  > Python 2.5 and 10.5 SDK. I do also use a couple of extra patches in
                  > my build (relative number, Lua, working on vimgdb). If there is
                  > interest, I could put my builds up somewhere for others to use. My
                  > main concern would be increasing the support load due to unofficial
                  > builds floating around.

                  Jason, feel free to make your own builds available -- I have no
                  objections to this.

                  (Sorry for taking so long to reply to your post!)

                  Björn

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