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Cocoa branch for Vim

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  • Etienne Posthumus
    I might regret publicly asking the question, but has anyone ever considered a Cocoa branch of Vim? The question is inspired by the slickness of the Gtk and Win
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 15, 2002
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      I might regret publicly asking the question, but has anyone ever
      considered a Cocoa branch of Vim?
      The question is inspired by the slickness of the Gtk and Win GUI versions,
      and the supposed ease-of-development for doing interfaces using Cocoa.
      (and even though I use it as the primary editor on OS X ,the odd glitches
      on the Carbon version)

      This question comes bubbling to the top of my mind every now and then. In
      my unsane moments I consider it a nice learning project for getting into
      Cocoa development, but my time is limited already.

      What are the opinions of others on this list?

      EP
    • Daniel Lee
      I ve thought about this myself. It seems that once upon a time there was a NeXT version of vim so I don t think it would be as bad as starting from scratch.
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 15, 2002
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        I've thought about this myself. It seems that once
        upon a time there was a NeXT version of vim so I don't
        think it would be as bad as starting from scratch.
        The NeXT version is probably seriously out of date
        though, so it still would be a pretty big undertaking.
        All of the NeXT versions I can find that use recent
        versions of vim for NeXT seem to compiled using the
        X11/Motif toolkit instead of the NeXTStep/Cocoa
        toolkit. Heck I don't even know if there is a
        NeXTStep/Cocoa gui interface.

        Anybody else interested? I've been interested in
        doing this for a whihle also. I have some free time
        at night, and have been looking for a Cocoa project.
        This one may be too big, but heck, if we only did
        things we were sure to accomplish, life would be
        pretty dull. I'll do some poking around and email
        back.

        Dan


        --- Etienne Posthumus <ep@...> wrote:
        > I might regret publicly asking the question, but has
        > anyone ever
        > considered a Cocoa branch of Vim?
        > The question is inspired by the slickness of the Gtk
        > and Win GUI versions,
        > and the supposed ease-of-development for doing
        > interfaces using Cocoa.
        > (and even though I use it as the primary editor on
        > OS X ,the odd glitches
        > on the Carbon version)
        >
        > This question comes bubbling to the top of my mind
        > every now and then. In
        > my unsane moments I consider it a nice learning
        > project for getting into
        > Cocoa development, but my time is limited already.
        >
        > What are the opinions of others on this list?
        >
        > EP
        >


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      • Gregory Seidman
        Daniel Lee sez: } I ve thought about this myself. It seems that once } upon a time there was a NeXT version of vim so I don t } think it would be as bad as
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 15, 2002
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          Daniel Lee sez:
          } I've thought about this myself. It seems that once
          } upon a time there was a NeXT version of vim so I don't
          } think it would be as bad as starting from scratch.
          } The NeXT version is probably seriously out of date
          } though, so it still would be a pretty big undertaking.
          } All of the NeXT versions I can find that use recent
          } versions of vim for NeXT seem to compiled using the
          } X11/Motif toolkit instead of the NeXTStep/Cocoa
          } toolkit. Heck I don't even know if there is a
          } NeXTStep/Cocoa gui interface.
          }
          } Anybody else interested? I've been interested in
          } doing this for a whihle also. I have some free time
          } at night, and have been looking for a Cocoa project.
          } This one may be too big, but heck, if we only did
          } things we were sure to accomplish, life would be
          } pretty dull. I'll do some poking around and email
          } back.

          AFAICT, vim abstracts away the UI components anyway. That's why it supports
          so many GUIs (e.g. Carbon, 3 different X11 widget libraries, Amiga,
          Windows, etc.). My expectation is that there will be roughly three tasks to
          make a Cocoa version:

          1) Creating a .nib for the basic open window and menubar
          2) Writing wrappers for simple things (e.g menus, menu items, file dialogs)
          3) Writing wrappers for more complicated things (e.g. fonts, screen drawing)

          I'm not certain of this, of course. I am interested in helping. I haven't
          written a Cocoa app from scratch, yet, but I have added AppleScript support
          to Space.app (which will be in the next version real soon now) and I messed
          with JPEGdeux a bit. Ooo, how about an AppleScript-enabled Vim? Hmm...

          } Dan
          --Greg
        • Bob Ippolito
          I m interested, but I don t think I have the proper amount of time to donate to the project.. However, while you re at it, it would be nice to have an open
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 15, 2002
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            I'm interested, but I don't think I have the proper amount of time to
            donate to the project.. However, while you're at it, it would be nice
            to have an open source Terminal.app replacement. I think that a
            framework should be developed that the two projects (cocoavim,
            "openterminal") could be based off of as a lot of the display/ui code
            would be pretty close.

            -bob

            On Sunday, Sep 15, 2002, at 22:23 US/Eastern, Daniel Lee wrote:

            > I've thought about this myself. It seems that once
            > upon a time there was a NeXT version of vim so I don't
            > think it would be as bad as starting from scratch.
            > The NeXT version is probably seriously out of date
            > though, so it still would be a pretty big undertaking.
            > All of the NeXT versions I can find that use recent
            > versions of vim for NeXT seem to compiled using the
            > X11/Motif toolkit instead of the NeXTStep/Cocoa
            > toolkit. Heck I don't even know if there is a
            > NeXTStep/Cocoa gui interface.
            >
            > Anybody else interested? I've been interested in
            > doing this for a whihle also. I have some free time
            > at night, and have been looking for a Cocoa project.
            > This one may be too big, but heck, if we only did
            > things we were sure to accomplish, life would be
            > pretty dull. I'll do some poking around and email
            > back.
            >
            > Dan
            >
            >
            > --- Etienne Posthumus <ep@...> wrote:
            >> I might regret publicly asking the question, but has
            >> anyone ever
            >> considered a Cocoa branch of Vim?
            >> The question is inspired by the slickness of the Gtk
            >> and Win GUI versions,
            >> and the supposed ease-of-development for doing
            >> interfaces using Cocoa.
            >> (and even though I use it as the primary editor on
            >> OS X ,the odd glitches
            >> on the Carbon version)
            >>
            >> This question comes bubbling to the top of my mind
            >> every now and then. In
            >> my unsane moments I consider it a nice learning
            >> project for getting into
            >> Cocoa development, but my time is limited already.
            >>
            >> What are the opinions of others on this list?
            >>
            >> EP
            >>
            >
            >
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          • Gregory Seidman
            Bob Ippolito sez: } I m interested, but I don t think I have the proper amount of time to } donate to the project.. However, while you re at it, it would be
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 15, 2002
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              Bob Ippolito sez:
              } I'm interested, but I don't think I have the proper amount of time to
              } donate to the project.. However, while you're at it, it would be nice
              } to have an open source Terminal.app replacement. I think that a
              } framework should be developed that the two projects (cocoavim,
              } "openterminal") could be based off of as a lot of the display/ui code
              } would be pretty close.

              It's a nice thought, but I don't think the drawing code is really what's
              most needed for a Terminal.app replacement. Good vt100/vt220/xterm
              emulation is hard to find. It is just possible that a bastardized merging
              of the XFree86 xterm and Carbon/Cocoa vim could give some head start for
              such a project, but I wouldn't bet on it. I've pretty much come to the
              conclusion that the best "open source Terminal.app replacement" (present
              and future) is XDarwin and xterm.

              } -bob
              --Greg
            • Etienne Posthumus
              ... That sounds like a large bite to chew. I was thinking much more simply, a NSTextView with a minimal menu (of course I might be barking up the wrong tree
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 17, 2002
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                On maandag, september 16, 2002, at 05:01 , Bob Ippolito wrote:
                > I'm interested, but I don't think I have the proper amount of time to
                > donate to the project.. However, while you're at it, it would be nice to
                > have an open source Terminal.app replacement. I think that a framework
                > should be developed that the two projects (cocoavim, "openterminal")
                > could be based off of as a lot of the display/ui code would be pretty
                > close.

                That sounds like a large bite to chew. I was thinking much more simply, a
                NSTextView with a minimal menu (of course I might be barking up the wrong
                tree thinking that NSTextView could handle the display requirements).
                It seems also that a lot of discussion on this list was about character
                set conversion and keyboard mappings, it might be worth investigating what
                kind of facilities OS X provides for that.

                Apart from above, if it wasn't for the fact that scrolling in Terminal.app
                was super-slow, I would just use UNIX vim.

                EP
              • Daniel Lee
                ... I agree. I was thinking that this project would use as little new code as possible, but hook up to existing Cocoa frameworks and use them, utilizing the
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 17, 2002
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                  --- Etienne Posthumus <ep@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > On maandag, september 16, 2002, at 05:01 , Bob
                  > Ippolito wrote:
                  > > I'm interested, but I don't think I have the
                  > proper amount of time to
                  > > donate to the project.. However, while you're at
                  > it, it would be nice to
                  > > have an open source Terminal.app replacement. I
                  > think that a framework
                  > > should be developed that the two projects
                  > (cocoavim, "openterminal")
                  > > could be based off of as a lot of the display/ui
                  > code would be pretty
                  > > close.
                  >
                  > That sounds like a large bite to chew. I was
                  > thinking much more simply, a
                  > NSTextView with a minimal menu (of course I might be
                  > barking up the wrong
                  > tree thinking that NSTextView could handle the
                  > display requirements).
                  > It seems also that a lot of discussion on this list
                  > was about character
                  > set conversion and keyboard mappings, it might be
                  > worth investigating what
                  > kind of facilities OS X provides for that.
                  >
                  > Apart from above, if it wasn't for the fact that
                  > scrolling in Terminal.app
                  > was super-slow, I would just use UNIX vim.
                  >
                  > EP

                  I agree. I was thinking that this project would use
                  as little new code as possible, but hook up to
                  existing Cocoa frameworks and use them, utilizing the
                  native character processing and drawing capabilities
                  of Cocoa and Quartz. Hopefully, the result would be
                  fast, complete and native. (and scriptable).
                  NSTextView might have enough features to support a
                  gvim window.

                  Dan

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