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Re: MacVim - one version? cvs?

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  • Mac Vim Support (Axel Kielhorn)
    ... collaboration via CVS. is this possible? The problem is that we have different binary versions. Don t forget that the difference between MacOS Classic and
    Message 1 of 24 , Jul 24, 2002
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      At 17:35 Uhr +0200 2002-07-23, Sven Guckes wrote:

      >as long as there are three different
      >versions of MacVim this takes a good
      >naming scheme for the uploaded binaries.
      >
      >personally, i'd favor *one* version - and
      collaboration via CVS. is this possible?

      The problem is that we have different binary versions. Don't forget
      that the difference between MacOS Classic and MacOS X is larger than
      the difference between Windows 3.1 and WindowsXP and that we have to
      support two different CPUs.

      The source is already the same for all versions (modulo some small
      local changes).

      Axel
    • Matthias Bertschy
      Yes, you are right... maybe an email like user@vim.org will suit me. Matthias Bertschy
      Message 2 of 24 , Jul 24, 2002
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        Yes, you are right... maybe an email like user@... will suit me.

        Matthias Bertschy

        On mercredi, juillet 24, 2002, at 10:39 , Sven Guckes wrote:

        > * Matthias Bertschy <matthiasbertschy@...> [2002-07-24 09:13]:
        >> I just received the same email from
        >> Apple... I'm quite disapointed by that.
        >> I'm also embarassed by the fact that
        >> if I want to keep my free email adress
        >> @... I should be first a member of
        >> .Mac (therefor I'll have to pay).
        >> Does anyone has a solution ?
        >
        > dump the mac.com address. get another.
        > if apple wanted to pay you for supporting it
        > then it will tell you so. but if they want you
        > to pay for advertising "mac.com" on the net,
        > well, then it is time to find a new sponsor.
        >
        > Svens [waiting for M$ to but apple, anyway]
        >
      • Sven Guckes
        ... vim.org is not an email address provider. Sven
        Message 3 of 24 , Jul 24, 2002
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          * Matthias Bertschy <matthiasbertschy@...> [2002-07-24 20:45]:
          > Yes, you are right... maybe an email like user@... will suit me.

          vim.org is not an email address provider.

          Sven
        • Eugene Lee
          ... If the source is identical and building different binaries is a matter of different #define s, then the only limit to collaboration via CVS is the
          Message 4 of 24 , Jul 25, 2002
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            On Wed, Jul 24, 2002 at 04:08:45PM +0200, Mac Vim Support (Axel Kielhorn) wrote:
            : At 17:35 Uhr +0200 2002-07-23, Sven Guckes wrote:
            : >
            : >personally, i'd favor *one* version - and
            : >collaboration via CVS. is this possible?
            :
            : The problem is that we have different binary versions. Don't forget
            : that the difference between MacOS Classic and MacOS X is larger than
            : the difference between Windows 3.1 and WindowsXP and that we have to
            : support two different CPUs.
            :
            : The source is already the same for all versions (modulo some small
            : local changes).

            If the source is identical and building different binaries is a matter
            of different #define's, then the only limit to collaboration via CVS is
            the organizational skills between the core developers.


            --
            Eugene Lee
            eugene@...
          • Sven Guckes
            ... my words. then again, i do not know how difficult it will be to add a lot of #defines to the code. i am all in favor for to provide *one* MacVIm for each
            Message 5 of 24 , Jul 25, 2002
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              * Eugene Lee <eugene@...> [2002-07-25 18:32]:
              > Jul 24, 2002 at 04:08, Mac Vim Support (Axel Kielhorn) wrote:
              > : At 17:35 Uhr +0200 2002-07-23, Sven Guckes wrote:
              > : >personally, i'd favor *one* version - and
              > : >collaboration via CVS. is this possible?
              > :
              > : The problem is that we have different binary versions. Don't
              > : forget that the difference between MacOS Classic and MacOS X
              > : is larger than the difference between Windows 3.1 and
              > : WindowsXP and that we have to support two different CPUs.
              > :
              > : The source is already the same for all
              > : versions (modulo some small local changes).
              >
              > If the source is identical and building different
              > binaries is a matter of different #define's, then
              > the only limit to collaboration via CVS is the
              > organizational skills between the core developers.

              my words. then again, i do not know how difficult
              it will be to add a lot of #defines to the code.

              i am all in favor for to provide
              *one* MacVIm for each CPU again.

              does it make sense to modularize
              the code for the different CPUs?

              Sven
            • Benji Fisher
              ... First a disclaimer: I know nothing about programming for any sort of Mac (or any other GUI). I can apply patches and run make; I can fiddle with system
              Message 6 of 24 , Jul 25, 2002
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                Sven Guckes wrote:
                >
                > * Eugene Lee <eugene@...> [2002-07-25 18:32]:
                > > Jul 24, 2002 at 04:08, Mac Vim Support (Axel Kielhorn) wrote:
                > > : At 17:35 Uhr +0200 2002-07-23, Sven Guckes wrote:
                > > : >personally, i'd favor *one* version - and
                > > : >collaboration via CVS. is this possible?
                > > :
                > > : The problem is that we have different binary versions. Don't
                > > : forget that the difference between MacOS Classic and MacOS X
                > > : is larger than the difference between Windows 3.1 and
                > > : WindowsXP and that we have to support two different CPUs.
                > > :
                > > : The source is already the same for all
                > > : versions (modulo some small local changes).
                > >
                > > If the source is identical and building different
                > > binaries is a matter of different #define's, then
                > > the only limit to collaboration via CVS is the
                > > organizational skills between the core developers.
                >
                > my words. then again, i do not know how difficult
                > it will be to add a lot of #defines to the code.
                >
                > i am all in favor for to provide
                > *one* MacVIm for each CPU again.
                >
                > does it make sense to modularize
                > the code for the different CPUs?
                >
                > Sven

                First a disclaimer: I know nothing about programming for any sort of Mac
                (or any other GUI). I can apply patches and run make; I can fiddle with system
                vimrc files; and I can add or delete the occasional #ifdef (but that is already
                getting risky). I maintain binaries for OS X, but it is a stretch to call me a
                developer. AFAIK the only active developers are Axel Kielhorn (mostly Classic)
                and Muraoka Taro (mostly OS X).

                In principle, there should be a Carbon vim that works on OS 8/9 as well as
                OS X. If it were easy, I think that Axel would have done it by now. I suppose
                (by packaging separate binaries and calling it a single program) it could even
                run on both CPU families.

                For OS X, there are two GUI's that we want to support: the native one
                (Aqua?) and also X11 (XDarwin). I will be surprised if it is easy to get a
                single binary that supports both GUI's. We could just say that "XDarwin is
                another flavor of Unix, and Unix geeks should compile their own version," but I
                think there are many OS X users who appreciate having a convenient package.

                Maybe I am missing the point. How many versions of MacVim are there? I
                think the main ones are mine (OS X Carbon), Axel Kielhorn's (Classic: PPC and
                68k) and Marc Liyanage's (OS X Terminal/X11). I guess there are also some
                versions with more support for Asian languages; Muraoka Taro is working on
                integrating this into the OS X Carbon version, at least. Am I missing some, or
                is this already too much?

                --Benji Fisher
              • Eugene Lee
                ... I m about this level too. I have a basic understanding of C, but it s definitely not my strongest suit (trying to find a little time to learn Objective
                Message 7 of 24 , Jul 25, 2002
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                  On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 11:32:24PM -0400, Benji Fisher wrote:
                  :
                  : First a disclaimer: I know nothing about programming for any sort
                  : of Mac (or any other GUI). I can apply patches and run make; I can
                  : fiddle with system vimrc files; and I can add or delete the occasional
                  : #ifdef (but that is already getting risky). I maintain binaries for OS
                  : X, but it is a stretch to call me a developer. AFAIK the only active
                  : developers are Axel Kielhorn (mostly Classic) and Muraoka Taro (mostly
                  : OS X).

                  I'm about this level too. I have a basic understanding of C, but it's
                  definitely not my strongest suit (trying to find a little time to learn
                  Objective C).

                  : Maybe I am missing the point. How many versions of MacVim are
                  : there? I think the main ones are mine (OS X Carbon), Axel Kielhorn's
                  : (Classic: PPC and 68k) and Marc Liyanage's (OS X Terminal/X11).
                  : I guess there are also some versions with more support for Asian
                  : languages; Muraoka Taro is working on integrating this into the OS X
                  : Carbon version, at least. Am I missing some, or is this already too
                  : much?

                  I thought the original idea was to have the flexibility to be able to
                  compile different binaries from the same CVS repository. Apologies if
                  this isn't the original idea and I've gone overboard. I don't know how
                  hard this will be to merge all the different "distributions" into a
                  single source tree. But I figure if it can be done with Apache for a
                  dozen different platforms, it's not impossible for MacVim --- but it
                  will require lots of effort to sort through all the diffs.


                  --
                  Eugene Lee
                  eugene@...
                • Gregory Seidman
                  Benji Fisher sez: [...] [...] } For OS X, there are two GUI s that we want to support: the native one } (Aqua?) and also X11 (XDarwin). I will be surprised
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jul 26, 2002
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                    Benji Fisher sez: [...]
                    [...]
                    } For OS X, there are two GUI's that we want to support: the native one
                    } (Aqua?) and also X11 (XDarwin). I will be surprised if it is easy to get
                    } a single binary that supports both GUI's. We could just say that
                    } "XDarwin is another flavor of Unix, and Unix geeks should compile their
                    } own version," but I think there are many OS X users who appreciate having
                    } a convenient package.

                    Is it currently possible to have more than one X11 GUI? For example, can
                    one configure vim to use both GTK and Athena and differentiate between them
                    on the commandline? If so, I have high hopes that the same could be done
                    for Aqua.

                    } Maybe I am missing the point. How many versions of MacVim are there? I
                    } think the main ones are mine (OS X Carbon), Axel Kielhorn's (Classic:
                    } PPC and 68k) and Marc Liyanage's (OS X Terminal/X11). I guess there are
                    } also some versions with more support for Asian languages; Muraoka Taro is
                    } working on integrating this into the OS X Carbon version, at least. Am I
                    } missing some, or is this already too much?

                    Marc Liyanage's version is just a package of a build from CVS. The CVS
                    code configures, compiles, and installs flawlessly on MacOS X. I've done
                    it.

                    } --Benji Fisher
                    --Greg
                  • Phil Dobbin
                    On 26/7/02 at 19:52, gss+vim@cs.brown.edu (Gregory Seidman) wrote: [snip] ... This is the only version of Vim I use and it s excellent. Regards, Phil.
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jul 27, 2002
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                      On 26/7/02 at 19:52, gss+vim@... (Gregory Seidman) wrote:

                      [snip]

                      > Marc Liyanage's version is just a package of a build from CVS. The CVS
                      > code configures, compiles, and installs flawlessly on MacOS X. I've
                      > done
                      > it

                      This is the only version of Vim I use and it's excellent.

                      Regards,

                      Phil.
                    • Gregory Seidman
                      Phil Dobbin sez: } On 26/7/02 at 19:52, gss+vim@cs.brown.edu (Gregory Seidman) wrote: } } [snip] } } Marc Liyanage s version is just a package of a build
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jul 27, 2002
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                        Phil Dobbin sez:
                        } On 26/7/02 at 19:52, gss+vim@... (Gregory Seidman) wrote:
                        }
                        } [snip]
                        }
                        } > Marc Liyanage's version is just a package of a build from CVS. The CVS
                        } > code configures, compiles, and installs flawlessly on MacOS X. I've
                        } > done
                        } > it
                        }
                        } This is the only version of Vim I use and it's excellent.

                        This is the primary version of vim that I use, since I spend much of my
                        time in XDarwin. It will probably be the primary version I use unless
                        and until vim supports multiple frames (i.e. not windows in a system
                        window, but multiple system windows). Still, I do like to have a version
                        that acts like an app on MacOS X.

                        } Regards,
                        } Phil.
                        --Greg
                      • Dany St-Amant
                        Hi, I have been away from the Vim code for a while, but here s the different version of Vim for MacOS (excluding the selection of feature such as huge, big,
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jul 27, 2002
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                          Hi,

                          I have been away from the Vim code for a while, but here's the
                          "different" version of Vim for MacOS (excluding the selection
                          of feature such as huge, big, perl, tcl, etc)

                          -Classic MacOS (in three possible version 68k, FAT, PPC)
                          [This version is mainly for pre-MacOS X, but work on MacOS X]
                          [The classic is the only version which could be made to work
                          on older Mac as far as (wild guess) System 7]

                          -Carbon MacOS standard
                          [This version work only on MacOS 9 and MacOS X]
                          [This a dirrect carbonization of the Classic version]

                          -Carbon MacOS X
                          [This version only work on MacOS X]
                          [It use the more friendly Unix pathname, and support shell]
                          [Can work without the GUI, i.e.: In a Terminal window]

                          -Cocoa MacOS X
                          [Not yet available, not sure if it will ever be]

                          -Unix Version (guiless, with Athena, GTK, etc.)
                          [Same as any other Un*x]
                          [Only version which currently support all Vim's feature]

                          #defines already exit to select the proper version.
                          (It was the case one year ago, i'll need to take a closer look).
                          gui_mac.c contains the code of both Carbon and Classic versions,
                          with the proper #ifdef. And os_unix.c is used by the Carbon X
                          version to avoid cloning code.

                          There's probably a way of unifying both Carbon version into on
                          single binary with yet another option in Vim, but this will
                          prevent the code from compiling on pre-MacOS X.

                          Unification of the Carbon standard and Classic version, could be
                          potentially made, but all shareware/freeware developer always
                          provide two separate binaries; so there must be a reason.


                          Dany
                        • Benji Fisher
                          ... I do not know, but I am guessing that GTK + Athena is not possible. If my guess is wrong, then I agree that Aqua + XDarwin should also be possible. ...
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jul 27, 2002
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                            On Friday, July 26, 2002, at 07:52 PM, Gregory Seidman wrote:
                            >
                            > Is it currently possible to have more than one X11 GUI? For example, can
                            > one configure vim to use both GTK and Athena and differentiate between
                            > them
                            > on the commandline? If so, I have high hopes that the same could be done
                            > for Aqua.

                            I do not know, but I am guessing that GTK + Athena is not
                            possible. If my guess is wrong, then I agree that Aqua + XDarwin should
                            also be possible.
                            >
                            > Marc Liyanage's version is just a package of a build from CVS. The CVS
                            > code configures, compiles, and installs flawlessly on MacOS X. I've done
                            > it.

                            The Carbon (OSX) version is also from the standard sources; I think
                            that the Classic version is, too. There are often a few patches
                            floating around, but as soon as the bugs get worked out, we send them to
                            Bram and they become part of the official distribution.

                            --Benji Fisher
                          • Benji Fisher
                            Dany: ... Welcome back. We have missed you! ... Thanks for the summary. What are the #defines for each of the versions? --Benji Fisher
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jul 27, 2002
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                              Dany:

                              On Saturday, July 27, 2002, at 09:10 AM, Dany St-Amant wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi,
                              >
                              > I have been away from the Vim code for a while, but here's the
                              > "different" version of Vim for MacOS (excluding the selection
                              > of feature such as huge, big, perl, tcl, etc)

                              Welcome back. We have missed you!

                              > -Classic MacOS (in three possible version 68k, FAT, PPC)
                              > [This version is mainly for pre-MacOS X, but work on MacOS X]
                              > [The classic is the only version which could be made to work
                              > on older Mac as far as (wild guess) System 7]
                              >
                              > -Carbon MacOS standard
                              > [This version work only on MacOS 9 and MacOS X]
                              > [This a dirrect carbonization of the Classic version]
                              >
                              > -Carbon MacOS X
                              > [This version only work on MacOS X]
                              > [It use the more friendly Unix pathname, and support shell]
                              > [Can work without the GUI, i.e.: In a Terminal window]
                              >
                              > -Cocoa MacOS X
                              > [Not yet available, not sure if it will ever be]
                              >
                              > -Unix Version (guiless, with Athena, GTK, etc.)
                              > [Same as any other Un*x]
                              > [Only version which currently support all Vim's feature]
                              >
                              > #defines already exit to select the proper version.

                              Thanks for the summary. What are the #defines for each of the
                              versions?

                              --Benji Fisher
                            • Mac Vim Support (Axel Kielhorn)
                              ... My compiler ist too old to create Carbon code. And I don t want to buy a new Codewarrior for Classic since I plan to change to MacOS X soon. ... It is
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jul 27, 2002
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                                At 23:32 Uhr -0400 2002-07-25, Benji Fisher wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > First a disclaimer: I know nothing about programming for any sort of Mac
                                >(or any other GUI). I can apply patches and run make; I can fiddle
                                >with system
                                >vimrc files; and I can add or delete the occasional #ifdef (but that
                                >is already
                                >getting risky). I maintain binaries for OS X, but it is a stretch
                                >to call me a
                                >developer. AFAIK the only active developers are Axel Kielhorn
                                >(mostly Classic)
                                >and Muraoka Taro (mostly OS X).
                                >
                                > In principle, there should be a Carbon vim that works on OS 8/9
                                >as well as
                                >OS X. If it were easy, I think that Axel would have done it by now.

                                My compiler ist too old to create Carbon code. And I don't want to
                                buy a new Codewarrior for Classic since I plan to change to MacOS X
                                soon.


                                > I suppose
                                >(by packaging separate binaries and calling it a single program) it could even
                                >run on both CPU families.

                                It is possible and I have done it once, but what is the advantage?
                                Using a fat binary is a good idea when you can share a lot of
                                resources (icons, menus) but that isn't the case with Vim. All the
                                resources are stored in the runtime tree which is already shared. (It
                                requieres some code to make Vim68small happy, but since I didn't get
                                any feedback on that one I will not dig into that.)


                                >
                                > Maybe I am missing the point. How many versions of MacVim are there? I
                                >think the main ones are mine (OS X Carbon), Axel Kielhorn's (Classic: PPC and
                                >68k) and Marc Liyanage's (OS X Terminal/X11). I guess there are also some
                                >versions with more support for Asian languages; Muraoka Taro is working on
                                >integrating this into the OS X Carbon version, at least.

                                This should be standard for OS X. Kenichi Asai asked me about support
                                for multibyte characters on Vim 5.8 Classic, multibyte is already
                                enabled for 6.1. (But I don't use it since I can't figure out how to
                                set Osaka-Mono as my guifont.)

                                I tried Muraoka Taros TEC support for Classic but ran into a lot of
                                compiler errors. These should be fixable but requiere some time.
                                Nevertheless, TEC support for Vim Classic would be great.


                                > Am I missing some, or
                                >is this already too much?

                                You can compile Vim with MPW for Classic and Carbon. But since some
                                functions are missing in the Apple libraries this version is not
                                usable. AFAIK these versions are not available in binary form.

                                Axel
                              • Bram Moolenaar
                                ... Does this summarize the same info as what s found at: http://vim.sourceforge.net/new/download.php#mac If not, please suggest how to update this. - Bram --
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jul 27, 2002
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                                  Dany St-Amant wrote:

                                  > I have been away from the Vim code for a while, but here's the
                                  > "different" version of Vim for MacOS (excluding the selection
                                  > of feature such as huge, big, perl, tcl, etc)

                                  Does this summarize the same info as what's found at:

                                  http://vim.sourceforge.net/new/download.php#mac

                                  If not, please suggest how to update this.

                                  - Bram

                                  --
                                  hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict:
                                  48. You get a tatoo that says "This body best viewed with Netscape 3.1 or
                                  higher."

                                  /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.moolenaar.net \\\
                                  /// Creator of Vim -- http://vim.sf.net -- ftp://ftp.vim.org/pub/vim \\\
                                  \\\ Project leader for A-A-P -- http://www.a-a-p.org ///
                                  \\\ Lord Of The Rings helps Uganda - http://iccf-holland.org/lotr.html ///
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