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MacVim.app snapshot 20 released (re-post)

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  • björn
    NOTE: I posted this message a day ago, but it still hasn t shown up on the list so I am sending it once more. My apologies if anybody gets this message twice.
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 4, 2008
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      NOTE: I posted this message a day ago, but it still hasn't shown up on
      the list so I am sending it once more. My apologies if anybody gets
      this message twice.
      ---------------

      Hi all,

      I have created a new snapshot of MacVim.app which now includes support
      for automatic updating via Sparkle (thanks to Nico Weber for the
      patch). Hopefully this will work, but that remains to be seen...let
      me know if there are any problems (of course, you won't really be able
      to comment on that before I release another snapshot, but anyway...).

      Because of the Sparkle support I also had to re-evaluate my versioning
      scheme (which was more or less non-existent), so the snapshots are now
      named after the build version. I counted, and this is the 20th
      snapshot I've released so this one is called "snapshot 20". From now
      on I will simply increment the build version by 1 each time I release
      a new build.

      Another side-effect of the Sparkle support is that MacVim now has an
      Appcast

      feed://bjorn.winckler.googlepages.com/macvim_latest.xml

      So from now on you'll have to either keep track of that feed for new
      snapshots, or let Sparkle do it for you by enabling automatic updates
      (it will ask if you want this feature on the first time you run this
      snapshot, otherwise you can also enable this feature in the
      preferences [yes, MacVim now has a preferences panel]). (Well, I'll
      probably announce the snapshots on this list still...)

      For a list of changes, check the appcast or go to

      http://repo.or.cz/w/MacVim.git


      /Björn
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    • Nico Weber
      Hi, ... yay for the new release! A few comments: Preferences window ================== There s a preference window -- that s great! But it s already starting
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 4, 2008
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        Hi,

        > I have created a new snapshot of MacVim.app which now includes support
        > for automatic updating via Sparkle.

        yay for the new release! A few comments:


        Preferences window
        ==================

        There's a preference window -- that's great! But it's already starting
        to look like "give the user an option for everything the developers
        can't decide on theirselves" ;-)

        For example, I can't imagine that you'd want an untitled document
        "only on re-open", it looks like this is only there to have all four
        possible combinations. And if this option was removed, it's probably
        better to put the remaining three options on radio buttons -- that
        saves one click, and you can immediately see all available options.

        I understand why one could think "Translate Ctrl-Button to secondary
        mouse click" is something you might want to change (hey, you could map
        <C-Mouse1> to something!), but I guess next to nobody will actually
        uncheck that option -- ⌃-click shows a contextual menu in every mac
        app out there. I wouldn't put this in the prefs (keeping the user
        default is ok of course).

        What exactly does "Launch Vim process in a login shell" do? As far as
        I understand, if this is set your PATH gets set correctly. What's the
        problem with having this set by default and not including it in the
        preference window?

        And finally: I don't quite get why "open files in tabs" is there --
        there's file->open tab… and there's `mvim --remote-tab` (which you
        can alias to `mtab`). But I'm not sure on this one, probably others
        like it (speak up, others! ;-) ).

        Furthermore, the preferences should be documented somewhere. Probably
        under `:h macvim_prefs`? I can write this documentation if you want.
        (perhaps there could be a help button on the prefs window that opens a
        macvim window with the approprate help section?)


        Other (completely unrelated) stuff
        ==================================

        * I'd keep the "how to update this appcast" comment in the appcast.
        It's just a few bytes, and it's very helpful (imo).
        * We should probably remove all files from the google code svn repo
        and put a "find the source at repo.or....". I accidentally browsed the
        svn repo for a short while this week.
        * We should credit Andy Matuschak for Sparkle in the about box. Patch
        for this is attached.
        (* I liked the old toolbar icons (at least for open, save, copy,
        paste) much better. Since it looks the toolbar won't change soon, I'd
        vote for reverting to the old icons)
        * On the google code website, the third heading ("Help!") should be
        renamed to "Get help" or similar. The way it is currently it looks
        like you are asking for help (which you do "again" in the next heading).


        Thanks for reading,
        Nico

        ps: "Bug:" If you attach something in Mail.app, hit cmd-shift-ctrl-e
        to edit the mail in macvim and :wq macvim, the mail loses its
        attachment. Can we do something about this?



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      • Ted Pavlic
        Very nice, and every preference in the preference pane seems like a good idea. Two things: *) For those that think that TOO MANY preferences are listed,
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 4, 2008
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          Very nice, and every preference in the preference pane seems like a good
          idea. Two things:

          *) For those that think that TOO MANY preferences are listed, perhaps
          using DOCUMENTED "hidden preferences" (like Skim does) is a good idea.
          Those handful of users who need a hidden preference can use a "defaults"
          line to set it rather than scrolling through thousands of preferences in
          the pane.

          *) Is there a way to CHANGE the login shell that MacVim uses? Some
          people will use tcsh. Does MacVim simply use the default login shell?
          This might be a great example for a "hidden preference"---a user could
          use "defaults" to set a command line to launch.

          --Ted


          björn wrote:
          > NOTE: I posted this message a day ago, but it still hasn't shown up on
          > the list so I am sending it once more. My apologies if anybody gets
          > this message twice.
          > ---------------
          >
          > Hi all,
          >
          > I have created a new snapshot of MacVim.app which now includes support
          > for automatic updating via Sparkle (thanks to Nico Weber for the
          > patch). Hopefully this will work, but that remains to be seen...let
          > me know if there are any problems (of course, you won't really be able
          > to comment on that before I release another snapshot, but anyway...).
          >
          > Because of the Sparkle support I also had to re-evaluate my versioning
          > scheme (which was more or less non-existent), so the snapshots are now
          > named after the build version. I counted, and this is the 20th
          > snapshot I've released so this one is called "snapshot 20". From now
          > on I will simply increment the build version by 1 each time I release
          > a new build.
          >
          > Another side-effect of the Sparkle support is that MacVim now has an
          > Appcast
          >
          > feed://bjorn.winckler.googlepages.com/macvim_latest.xml
          >
          > So from now on you'll have to either keep track of that feed for new
          > snapshots, or let Sparkle do it for you by enabling automatic updates
          > (it will ask if you want this feature on the first time you run this
          > snapshot, otherwise you can also enable this feature in the
          > preferences [yes, MacVim now has a preferences panel]). (Well, I'll
          > probably announce the snapshots on this list still...)
          >
          > For a list of changes, check the appcast or go to
          >
          > http://repo.or.cz/w/MacVim.git
          >
          >
          > /Björn
          > >
          >

          --
          Ted Pavlic <ted@...>

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        • Ben Schmidt
          ... I have done some research on this, but been too busy to finalise it and report back to the list recently. The reason the preference is disabled by default
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 4, 2008
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            > *) Is there a way to CHANGE the login shell that MacVim uses? Some
            > people will use tcsh. Does MacVim simply use the default login shell?
            > This might be a great example for a "hidden preference"---a user could
            > use "defaults" to set a command line to launch.

            I have done some research on this, but been too busy to finalise it and report
            back to the list recently. The reason the preference is disabled by default at the
            moment is because of issues with different shells.

            Ben.





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          • Ben Schmidt
            ... It s for if you drop files on the MacVim icon, I believe (or associate them to MacVim for your double-clicking pleasure). Ben. Send instant messages to
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 4, 2008
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              > And finally: I don't quite get why "open files in tabs" is there --
              > there's file->open tab… and there's `mvim --remote-tab` (which you
              > can alias to `mtab`). But I'm not sure on this one, probably others
              > like it (speak up, others! ;-) ).

              It's for if you drop files on the MacVim icon, I believe (or associate them to
              MacVim for your double-clicking pleasure).

              Ben.



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            • Ted Pavlic
              Personally, I think it s fine that it s disabled by default. I was just wondering how to change the shell (if that s possible) that MacVim uses. Using the
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 5, 2008
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                Personally, I think it's fine that it's disabled by default.

                I was just wondering how to change the shell (if that's possible) that
                MacVim uses. Using the default shell might make sense, but it might even
                be nice to use strange "shells" -- like remote shells that execute
                builds on remote machines.

                Of course, most of the "strange shells" could just be built into a
                Makefile/build script, so I guess just using the default login shell
                would work fine.

                Either way, it's a nice addition, and it's a good idea to make it a
                preference that can be disabled. Good thinking.

                --Ted

                Ben Schmidt wrote:
                >> *) Is there a way to CHANGE the login shell that MacVim uses? Some
                >> people will use tcsh. Does MacVim simply use the default login
                >> shell? This might be a great example for a "hidden preference"---a
                >> user could use "defaults" to set a command line to launch.
                >
                > I have done some research on this, but been too busy to finalise it
                > and report back to the list recently. The reason the preference is
                > disabled by default at the moment is because of issues with different
                > shells.
                >
                > Ben.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Send instant messages to your online friends
                > http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
                >
                >
                > >
                >

                --
                Ted Pavlic <ted@...>

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              • björn
                On 04/02/2008, Nico Weber wrote: Preferences window ================== There s a preference window -- that s great! But it s
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 5, 2008
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                  On 04/02/2008, Nico Weber <nicolasweber@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Preferences window
                  > ==================
                  >
                  > There's a preference window -- that's great! But it's already starting
                  > to look like "give the user an option for everything the developers
                  > can't decide on theirselves" ;-)

                  You are right. :-)

                  It was so exciting to "design" a dialog box that I went a bit
                  overboard...actually I thought I was restraing myself, but ...

                  >
                  > For example, I can't imagine that you'd want an untitled document
                  > "only on re-open", it looks like this is only there to have all four
                  > possible combinations. And if this option was removed, it's probably
                  > better to put the remaining three options on radio buttons -- that
                  > saves one click, and you can immediately see all available options.

                  Agreed.

                  >
                  > I understand why one could think "Translate Ctrl-Button to secondary
                  > mouse click" is something you might want to change (hey, you could map
                  > <C-Mouse1> to something!), but I guess next to nobody will actually
                  > uncheck that option -- ⌃-click shows a contextual menu in every mac
                  > app out there. I wouldn't put this in the prefs (keeping the user
                  > default is ok of course).

                  Yeah, hardly anybody will touch this. It's going.

                  >
                  > What exactly does "Launch Vim process in a login shell" do? As far as
                  > I understand, if this is set your PATH gets set correctly. What's the
                  > problem with having this set by default and not including it in the
                  > preference window?

                  It has already been answered I guess...hopefully it will become a more
                  useful option in the future, but for now it only works with some
                  shells...hence it is disabled by default even though it is useful for
                  everybody who uses the default shell (which is quite a lot of people I
                  would guess). I will try to add a little comment next to the option
                  like some options in Safari does.

                  >
                  > And finally: I don't quite get why "open files in tabs" is there --
                  > there's file->open tab… and there's `mvim --remote-tab` (which you
                  > can alias to `mtab`). But I'm not sure on this one, probably others
                  > like it (speak up, others! ;-) ).

                  Has also been answered by now...it is there for people who open files
                  by double-clicking, dragging to the dock icon, opening from Xcode,
                  etc. It seems like quite a few people only work in one window. :/

                  >
                  > Furthermore, the preferences should be documented somewhere. Probably
                  > under `:h macvim_prefs`? I can write this documentation if you want.
                  > (perhaps there could be a help button on the prefs window that opens a
                  > macvim window with the approprate help section?)

                  Thanks for the offer...but I think it makes sense that I do it myself
                  since I have to change the prefs around anyway. :-)

                  >
                  > Other (completely unrelated) stuff
                  > ==================================
                  >
                  > * I'd keep the "how to update this appcast" comment in the appcast.
                  > It's just a few bytes, and it's very helpful (imo).

                  Agreed. I will put it back (why did I remove it in the first place? hmm...).

                  > * We should probably remove all files from the google code svn repo
                  > and put a "find the source at repo.or....". I accidentally browsed the
                  > svn repo for a short while this week.

                  Yes...I have had that thought in the back of my mind for a while
                  now...time to get to it.

                  > * We should credit Andy Matuschak for Sparkle in the about box. Patch
                  > for this is attached.

                  Thanks. I realized that just after uploading the snapshot... :-(

                  > (* I liked the old toolbar icons (at least for open, save, copy,
                  > paste) much better. Since it looks the toolbar won't change soon, I'd
                  > vote for reverting to the old icons)

                  Would you mind sending me a patch with your favourite combination of
                  old/new icons?

                  > * On the google code website, the third heading ("Help!") should be
                  > renamed to "Get help" or similar. The way it is currently it looks
                  > like you are asking for help (which you do "again" in the next heading).

                  Sure, the way it is written now is a bit ambiguous.


                  > Thanks for reading,
                  > Nico

                  More thanks to you for all the comments!

                  >
                  > ps: "Bug:" If you attach something in Mail.app, hit cmd-shift-ctrl-e
                  > to edit the mail in macvim and :wq macvim, the mail loses its
                  > attachment. Can we do something about this?

                  I don't know. I don't know the input manager code at all...but I
                  guess it would warrant a closer look. Do you have any time to
                  investigate yourself?

                  /Björn

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                • björn
                  ... At first I thought this might be a nice feature, but now I realize that it has a problem. I assume you meant that when pressing this button the topmost
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 5, 2008
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                    On 04/02/2008, Nico Weber <nicolasweber@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > (perhaps there could be a help button on the prefs window that opens a
                    > macvim window with the approprate help section?)

                    At first I thought this might be a nice feature, but now I realize
                    that it has a problem. I assume you meant that when pressing this
                    button the topmost window would display the help, right? But what
                    happens when there are no windows open...should we open a new one?
                    That seems a bit weird to me.

                    Instead of adding a help button I put some descriptive text next to
                    the options that I thought might need it...that will hopefully be
                    enough. (?) (I haven't pushed this to the repo yet...will do so
                    soon.)

                    /Björn

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                  • Nico Weber
                    ... Actually, I d open a new window for the help. Opening in an existing window would create a split window, and you might not immediately be able to figure
                    Message 9 of 12 , Feb 5, 2008
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                      > At first I thought this might be a nice feature, but now I realize
                      > that it has a problem. I assume you meant that when pressing this
                      > button the topmost window would display the help, right?

                      Actually, I'd open a new window for the help. Opening in an existing
                      window would create a split window, and you might not immediately be
                      able to figure out how to get rid of the split view (since cmd-w works
                      it's not too bad, but…).

                      > Instead of adding a help button I put some descriptive text next to
                      > the options that I thought might need it...that will hopefully be
                      > enough. (?) (I haven't pushed this to the repo yet...will do so
                      > soon.)

                      That's probably good enough.

                      Nico
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                    • björn
                      ... I pushed the changes to the prefs now and I also updated the help file...what do you think? /Björn --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
                      Message 10 of 12 , Feb 5, 2008
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                        On 05/02/2008, Nico Weber <nicolasweber@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > At first I thought this might be a nice feature, but now I realize
                        > > that it has a problem. I assume you meant that when pressing this
                        > > button the topmost window would display the help, right?
                        >
                        > Actually, I'd open a new window for the help. Opening in an existing
                        > window would create a split window, and you might not immediately be
                        > able to figure out how to get rid of the split view (since cmd-w works
                        > it's not too bad, but…).
                        >
                        > > Instead of adding a help button I put some descriptive text next to
                        > > the options that I thought might need it...that will hopefully be
                        > > enough. (?) (I haven't pushed this to the repo yet...will do so
                        > > soon.)
                        >
                        > That's probably good enough.

                        I pushed the changes to the prefs now and I also updated the help
                        file...what do you think?

                        /Björn

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                      • Nico Weber
                        ... Better. Imo it s not really clear which checkbox the label texts belong to (add a few pixels of spacing), and it s a bit weird that all checkboxes are
                        Message 11 of 12 , Feb 5, 2008
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                          > I pushed the changes to the prefs now and I also updated the help
                          > file...what do you think?

                          Better. Imo it's not really clear which checkbox the label texts
                          belong to (add a few pixels of spacing), and it's a bit weird that all
                          checkboxes are aligned on the "Open untitled window:" label.

                          Furthermore, the prefs window disappears when I cmd-tab to another
                          application; that's different than in every other app.

                          In the longer term: I'd put the "Install mvim script" and "Install
                          input manager" buttons in the pref window too, which would make the
                          window somewhat crowded. We might want to use a "toolbar preferences
                          window" (as in, for example, safari or mail) with the toolbar icons
                          "General" (everything that's in the prefs now except for the shell
                          setting), "Integration"/"System" or similar (with short explanatory
                          texts for the mvim and inputmanager things and an "install" button for
                          each (which could optionally read "update" if there already is a /usr/
                          local/bin/mvim or /Library/InputManagers/Edit in ODBEditor exists))
                          and "Advanced" (the login shell setting). In that case, the links at http://www.mere-mortal-software.com/blog/details.php?d=2007-03-14
                          seem useful.

                          Nico

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                        • björn
                          ... I m no GUI designer, but I tried to copy the Safari prefs as much as possible. Aligning to the left looks very un-Apple . Anyway, the preferences are
                          Message 12 of 12 , Feb 5, 2008
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                            On 05/02/2008, Nico Weber <nicolasweber@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > I pushed the changes to the prefs now and I also updated the help
                            > > file...what do you think?
                            >
                            > Better. Imo it's not really clear which checkbox the label texts
                            > belong to (add a few pixels of spacing), and it's a bit weird that all
                            > checkboxes are aligned on the "Open untitled window:" label.

                            I'm no GUI designer, but I tried to copy the Safari prefs as much as
                            possible. Aligning to the left looks very "un-Apple". Anyway, the
                            preferences are likely to change a lot in the near future...maybe we
                            can have this discussion again when things have stabilized a bit.

                            As for the spacing...I actually did add more (than what the "automated
                            guides" would like) space already, but I guess two more pixels won't
                            hurt. :-)

                            >
                            > Furthermore, the prefs window disappears when I cmd-tab to another
                            > application; that's different than in every other app.

                            You are right. I will fix that.

                            >
                            > In the longer term: I'd put the "Install mvim script" and "Install
                            > input manager" buttons in the pref window too, which would make the
                            > window somewhat crowded. We might want to use a "toolbar preferences
                            > window" (as in, for example, safari or mail) with the toolbar icons
                            > "General" (everything that's in the prefs now except for the shell
                            > setting), "Integration"/"System" or similar (with short explanatory
                            > texts for the mvim and inputmanager things and an "install" button for
                            > each (which could optionally read "update" if there already is a /usr/
                            > local/bin/mvim or /Library/InputManagers/Edit in ODBEditor exists))
                            > and "Advanced" (the login shell setting). In that case, the links at http://www.mere-mortal-software.com/blog/details.php?d=2007-03-14
                            > seem useful.

                            Thanks for the link...it does seem useful and we should have that
                            style preferences panel in the future. Any ideas where to get the
                            icons for the preferences if we implement that type of panel? I get
                            the impression that people use the Apple ones?!?

                            /Björn

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