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Re: vim-cocoa 0.1 released

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  • Tim Allen
    ... Going by the screenshot I posted, vim-cocoa s rendering is also less buggy. vim-cocoa also doesn t totally break when handed combining characters in
    Message 1 of 22 , Nov 2, 2007
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      On Nov 3, 1:06 pm, "Jeremy Conlin" <jerem...@...> wrote:
      > I have been using MacVim since it was announced. I also knew of
      > vim-cocoa, but haven't tried it out (yet). There was also discussion
      > a few weeks ago about merging the two and have the work be primarily
      > on MacVim. If I recall correctly, MacVim was more mature, but
      > vim-cocoa rendered the text faster. Right?

      Going by the screenshot I posted, vim-cocoa's rendering is also less
      buggy. vim-cocoa also doesn't totally break when handed combining
      characters in filenames, but it doesn't get them right either: it just
      doesn't draw them at all.

      I expect there's a lot of scope for cross-pollination of ideas and
      techniques, even if the two stay as separate ports; I just wish I knew
      enough of the intricacies of Cocoa to help out.


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    • Jjgod Jiang
      Hi Jeremy and anmar,On 11/3/07, Jeremy Conlin wrote: So what is the current status? Will we continue to have two different versions
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 2, 2007
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        Hi Jeremy and anmar,

        On 11/3/07, Jeremy Conlin <jeremit0@...> wrote:
        > So what is the current status? Will we continue to have two different
        > versions for awhile or is the (partial) merging going to happen?

        I already started to investigate how to integrate the current rendering
        code of vim-cocoa into MacVim, but since MacVim implements more
        features than vim-cocoa, there could be some features involved with
        the text view which may not going to work after new code replaced the
        old one, so I think this integration is not going to be a one patch
        process, I wish Björn can create a branch on MacVim public repository
        so that I can push the changes to that branch and people in interest
        can fetch this branch and do some test before it actually going into
        the trunk.

        - Jiang

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      • Nico Weber
        ... Easy: The upper one is vim-cocoa. It s scrollbars look all weird :-P (well, and the text probably looks better, even if I can t read it). Nico
        Message 3 of 22 , Nov 3, 2007
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          > So, who can guess which of these is MacVim, and which is vim-cocoa,
          > and how do you know?
          >
          > http://home.aanet.com.au/Screwtape/TheTwoVims.png

          Easy: The upper one is vim-cocoa. It's scrollbars look all weird :-P
          (well, and the text probably looks better, even if I can't read it).

          Nico

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        • björn
          ... Instead of me handing out push access to the MacVim Git repo I think a better idea is that you create a fork of the MacVim repo. Simply go to
          Message 4 of 22 , Nov 3, 2007
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            On 03/11/2007, Jjgod Jiang <gzjjgod@...> wrote:
            > I already started to investigate how to integrate the current rendering
            > code of vim-cocoa into MacVim, but since MacVim implements more
            > features than vim-cocoa, there could be some features involved with
            > the text view which may not going to work after new code replaced the
            > old one, so I think this integration is not going to be a one patch
            > process, I wish Björn can create a branch on MacVim public repository
            > so that I can push the changes to that branch and people in interest
            > can fetch this branch and do some test before it actually going into
            > the trunk.

            Instead of me handing out push access to the MacVim Git repo I think a
            better idea is that you create a fork of the MacVim repo. Simply go
            to

            http://repo.or.cz/w/MacVim.git

            and click the "fork" link in the top-right of the window. That way I
            can pull from you and push to the MacVim repo as I see fit. Also,
            this way anybody who wants to check out your progress can simply pull
            from your fork. Does that sound ok to you?


            /Björn

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          • George V. Reilly
            The Vim.app in the tar.bz2 wouldn t open for me at all. I built vim-cocoa from the git repository. It runs, but I don t get any syntax highlighting. Instead, I
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 3, 2007
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              The Vim.app in the tar.bz2 wouldn't open for me at all.

              I built vim-cocoa from the git repository. It runs, but I don't get
              any syntax highlighting. Instead, I get
              E484: Can't open file
              /Applications/Vim.app/Contents/Contents/Resources/vim/syntax/syntax.vim.

              Note: I haven't installed vim-cocoa. I just ran 'open Vim.app' from
              the vim-cocoa/src directory.

              By contrast, running 'open MacVim.app', everything works fine.

              Intel 10.4.10, if that matters.
              --
              /George V. Reilly
              http://www.georgevreilly.com/blog

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            • Jjgod Jiang
              Hi George, ... Would you please execute the following commands ... and tell me the results? (for the last command, I would like to see the line contain
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 3, 2007
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                Hi George,

                On 11/3/07, George V. Reilly <george@...> wrote:
                >
                > The Vim.app in the tar.bz2 wouldn't open for me at all.
                >
                > I built vim-cocoa from the git repository. It runs, but I don't get
                > any syntax highlighting. Instead, I get
                > E484: Can't open file
                > /Applications/Vim.app/Contents/Contents/Resources/vim/syntax/syntax.vim.

                Would you please execute the following commands

                :echo $VM
                :echo $VIMRUNTIME
                :ver

                and tell me the results? (for the last command, I would like to see
                the line contain
                "fall-back for $VIM") that would be helpful for debugging this issue.

                - Jiang

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              • Jjgod Jiang
                Hi Nico, ... I believe the issue you mentioned [1] has been fixed now. Thanks. About the `ugly scroll bar , I still cannot find an elegant solution to fix
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 3, 2007
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                  Hi Nico,

                  On 11/3/07, Nico Weber <nicolasweber@...> wrote:
                  > Yay, a release :-) Looks very good so far. I found another minor
                  > scrollbar problem. I posted it to the issue tracker since you said you
                  > prefer that.

                  I believe the issue you mentioned [1] has been fixed now. Thanks.

                  About the `ugly scroll bar', I still cannot find an elegant solution
                  to fix that, I knew MacVim has a workaround for that problem, but that
                  workaround needs to check every existing scroll bars every time
                  gui_mch_set_scrollbar_pos() gets called, but gui_mch_set_scrollbar_pos()
                  really gets called very frequently, so I wish to make it as cheap as
                  possible.

                  - Jiang

                  [1] http://code.google.com/p/vim-cocoa/issues/detail?id=17

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                • George V. Reilly
                  ... $VIM: /Applications/Vim.app/Contents/Resources/vim $VIMRUNTIME: /Applications/Vim.app/Contents/Resources/vim fall-back for $VIM:
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 3, 2007
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                    On 11/3/07, Jjgod Jiang <gzjjgod@...> wrote:
                    > Would you please execute the following commands
                    >
                    > :echo $VM
                    > :echo $VIMRUNTIME
                    > :ver
                    >
                    > and tell me the results? (for the last command, I would like to see
                    > the line contain
                    > "fall-back for $VIM") that would be helpful for debugging this issue.

                    $VIM: /Applications/Vim.app/Contents/Resources/vim
                    $VIMRUNTIME: /Applications/Vim.app/Contents/Resources/vim
                    fall-back for $VIM: "/Applications/Vim.app/Contents/Resources/vim"

                    I'm not setting VIM explicitly, so Vim must be computing $VIM from its defaults.

                    /George

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                  • Nico Weber
                    ... Benji, could you give write access to someone to macvim.org? Panos, could you bring the wiki back up? We really need to post this somewhere on the web. In
                    Message 9 of 22 , Nov 3, 2007
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                      > This is super great. One thing can you please elaborate on is how
                      > does Vim-cocoa and MacVim are related if any and is there a merge in
                      > the works? I thought there were.

                      Benji, could you give write access to someone to macvim.org? Panos,
                      could you bring the wiki back up? We really need to post this
                      somewhere on the web.

                      In a nutshell: MacVim and vim-cocoa are both "better" than the old
                      carbon version (which is still the "official" port). They are
                      implemented in different ways, which mean that MacVim can have several
                      vim windows, but it's a bit slower. Furthermore, MacVim is a bit more
                      mature and has a few more features (toolbar, gui tabs, nicer font
                      selection, ...).

                      Nico

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                    • Jun T.
                      I ve tried vim-cocoa and it works great!. Especially good news to me is that it supports the inline input of CJK languages (on-the-spot style in X11 XIM
                      Message 10 of 22 , Nov 7, 2007
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                        I've tried vim-cocoa and it works great!.

                        Especially good news to me is that it supports the "inline input"
                        of CJK languages (on-the-spot style in X11 XIM terminology).

                        A bad news is that it doesn't fully control the Input Method,
                        i.e., the IM (such as Kotoeri) is still ON if I go to the normal mode
                        by hitting ESC. I must manually turn off the IM. If I go back to the
                        input mode I must turn it on again.

                        Carbon gvim doesn't support inline input (it uses a separate floating
                        window for IM), but it does support the full IM control if I apply
                        the atsui.patch (of Jigod Jiang himself); IM is automatically off if I
                        go to the normal mode, and automaticaly turned on again if I go back
                        to the input mode.

                        Are there any plan to support full IM control in vim-cocoa?

                        (MacVim uses "off-the-spot" style for IM and doesn't support full
                        IM control.)

                        Another minor problem is that the preedit area in the inline input
                        doesn't wrap to the next line. If the cursor is near the right end of
                        the window and if I start inputting Japanese by using IM, the preedit
                        area goes beyond the right end of the window but the region outside
                        the window is not displayed; this makes it impossible to see what I'm
                        typing now.

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                      • Jjgod Jiang
                        Hi Jun, ... I m aware of that, but vim-cocoa and carbon vim control the IM status in different levels, maybe they have different capabilities, but I m not
                        Message 11 of 22 , Nov 11, 2007
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                          Hi Jun,

                          On Nov 7, 2007 4:34 PM, Jun T. <takimoto-j@...> wrote:
                          > A bad news is that it doesn't fully control the Input Method,
                          > i.e., the IM (such as Kotoeri) is still ON if I go to the normal mode
                          > by hitting ESC. I must manually turn off the IM. If I go back to the
                          > input mode I must turn it on again.
                          >
                          > Carbon gvim doesn't support inline input (it uses a separate floating
                          > window for IM), but it does support the full IM control if I apply
                          > the atsui.patch (of Jigod Jiang himself); IM is automatically off if I
                          > go to the normal mode, and automaticaly turned on again if I go back
                          > to the input mode.

                          I'm aware of that, but vim-cocoa and carbon vim control the IM status in
                          different levels, maybe they have different capabilities, but I'm not sure.
                          It's still a problem to investigate, but I just don't have time to do so
                          recently.

                          > Another minor problem is that the preedit area in the inline input
                          > doesn't wrap to the next line. If the cursor is near the right end of
                          > the window and if I start inputting Japanese by using IM, the preedit
                          > area goes beyond the right end of the window but the region outside
                          > the window is not displayed; this makes it impossible to see what I'm
                          > typing now.

                          Thanks for pointing that out, it's a bug of course, I'll fix that in the next
                          release.

                          - Jiang

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                        • Kazuki Sakamoto
                          Hi, ... The attached patch will enable to control the IM in vim-cocoa. It uses carbon API, because cocoa API can t get the IM status as far as I know. And, I m
                          Message 12 of 22 , Nov 12, 2007
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                            Hi,

                            On Nov 12, 2007 2:15 PM, Jjgod Jiang <gzjjgod@...> wrote:
                            > > A bad news is that it doesn't fully control the Input Method,
                            > > i.e., the IM (such as Kotoeri) is still ON if I go to the normal mode
                            > > by hitting ESC. I must manually turn off the IM. If I go back to the
                            > > input mode I must turn it on again.
                            > I'm aware of that, but vim-cocoa and carbon vim control the IM status in
                            > different levels, maybe they have different capabilities, but I'm not sure.
                            > It's still a problem to investigate, but I just don't have time to do so
                            > recently.

                            The attached patch will enable to control the IM in vim-cocoa.
                            It uses carbon API, because cocoa API can't get the IM status
                            as far as I know.

                            And, I'm not sure I can use KeyScript(smKeyRoman) to enable the IM,
                            'Roman' is Japanese input method, but carbon vim use this code.

                            Also GetScriptManagerVariable() is deprecated in Leopard(Mac OS X v10.5),
                            use TISCopyCurrentKeyboardInputSource, TISSelectInputSource, and so on.

                            http://developer.apple.com/documentation/TextFonts/Reference/TextInputSourcesReference/index.html

                            sakamoto

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                          • Jun T.
                            Thank you for the patch. (I needed to add -framework Carbon when linking.) ... KeyScript() is called as KeyScript(active ? smKeySysScript : smKeyRoman); so I
                            Message 13 of 22 , Nov 13, 2007
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                              Thank you for the patch.
                              (I needed to add "-framework Carbon" when linking.)

                              >I'm not sure I can use KeyScript(smKeyRoman) to enable the IM,
                              >'Roman' is Japanese input method, but carbon vim use this code.

                              KeyScript() is called as
                              KeyScript(active ? smKeySysScript : smKeyRoman);
                              so I think smKeySysScript is Japanease (on a Japanease sytem),
                              and smKeyRoman is Roman.

                              BTW, does anybody know whether there are any benefits if an app
                              is "pure Cocoa"? Or is it OK to occasionally use Carbon API in
                              Cocoa apps?


                              PS
                              Sakamoto-san, I knew you were maintaining a private port file
                              of vim for MacPorts, but I didn't know it has already supported
                              vim-cocoa.

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                            • Nico Weber
                              ... As far as I know the main argument for cocoa (besides being more buzzword compliant :-P) is that apple is not porting the gui part of carbon to 64 bit, and
                              Message 14 of 22 , Nov 13, 2007
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                                > BTW, does anybody know whether there are any benefits if an app
                                > is "pure Cocoa"? Or is it OK to occasionally use Carbon API in
                                > Cocoa apps?

                                As far as I know the main argument for cocoa (besides being more
                                buzzword compliant :-P) is that apple is not porting the gui part of
                                carbon to 64 bit, and is encouraging use of cocoa in general. Using
                                carbon for non-gui stuff is fine, but if there's a cocoa api as well
                                as a carbon api, using the cocoa api is more future-proof i guess (if
                                there's no cocoa api yet, you don't have much choice, though).

                                Nico

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                              • Tim Allen
                                ... I recently watched a Google Tech Talk given by the lead programmer of VMware Fusion for OS X[1] and while he did talk about VMware Fusion, he also spent a
                                Message 15 of 22 , Nov 13, 2007
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                                  On Nov 13, 8:06 pm, "Jun T." <takimot...@...> wrote:
                                  > BTW, does anybody know whether there are any benefits if an app
                                  > is "pure Cocoa"? Or is it OK to occasionally use Carbon API in
                                  > Cocoa apps?

                                  I recently watched a Google Tech Talk given by the lead programmer of
                                  VMware Fusion for OS X[1] and while he did talk about VMware Fusion,
                                  he also spent a good chunk of time complaining that any non-trivial
                                  Mac application is pretty much required to use at least Carbon and
                                  Cocoa to work, if not BSD/Mach and kernel hooks as well. A "pure
                                  Cocoa" app probably has the advantage of not having to deal with three
                                  or four different file APIs or graphics APIs, but if you can deal with
                                  the complexity of the code and you need a feature that's only exposed
                                  via Carbon or BSD, feel free.

                                  [1] http://blogs.vmware.com/vmtn/2007/10/google-tech-tal.html


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                                • Jjgod Jiang
                                  Hi, ... Thanks a lot! I ll try to figure out a solution suitable for both pre-10.5 and 10.5 systems. - Jiang
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Nov 14, 2007
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                                    Hi,

                                    On 11/12/07, Kazuki Sakamoto <sakamoto.kazuki@...> wrote:
                                    > Hi,
                                    >
                                    > The attached patch will enable to control the IM in vim-cocoa.
                                    > It uses carbon API, because cocoa API can't get the IM status
                                    > as far as I know.
                                    >
                                    > And, I'm not sure I can use KeyScript(smKeyRoman) to enable the IM,
                                    > 'Roman' is Japanese input method, but carbon vim use this code.
                                    >
                                    > Also GetScriptManagerVariable() is deprecated in Leopard(Mac OS X v10.5),
                                    > use TISCopyCurrentKeyboardInputSource, TISSelectInputSource, and so on.
                                    >
                                    > http://developer.apple.com/documentation/TextFonts/Reference/TextInputSourcesReference/index.html

                                    Thanks a lot! I'll try to figure out a solution suitable for both
                                    pre-10.5 and 10.5
                                    systems.

                                    - Jiang

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