Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: vim-cocoa 0.1 released

Expand Messages
  • Jeremy Conlin
    ... That s an excellent question. I think it s wonderful that Vim on the Mac has been receiving great attention as of late. However, there is a bit too much
    Message 1 of 22 , Nov 2, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      On 11/2/07, Tim Allen <thristian@...> wrote:
      >
      > On Nov 3, 2:54 am, "Jjgod Jiang" <gzjj...@...> wrote:
      > > vim-cocoa - vim GUI interface with Cocoa
      > > http://code.google.com/p/vim-cocoa
      >
      > So, who can guess which of these is MacVim, and which is vim-cocoa,
      > and how do you know?
      >
      > http://home.aanet.com.au/Screwtape/TheTwoVims.png

      That's an excellent question. I think it's wonderful that Vim on the
      Mac has been receiving great attention as of late. However, there is
      a bit too much Vim lovin' going around for me to keep everything
      straight.

      I have been using MacVim since it was announced. I also knew of
      vim-cocoa, but haven't tried it out (yet). There was also discussion
      a few weeks ago about merging the two and have the work be primarily
      on MacVim. If I recall correctly, MacVim was more mature, but
      vim-cocoa rendered the text faster. Right?

      So what is the current status? Will we continue to have two different
      versions for awhile or is the (partial) merging going to happen?

      In the meantime, I think I'll download vim-cocoa so I can try it out
      and see what it has to offer.

      Thanks again for the great work!
      Jeremy

      --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
      You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
      For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
      -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
    • Tim Allen
      ... Going by the screenshot I posted, vim-cocoa s rendering is also less buggy. vim-cocoa also doesn t totally break when handed combining characters in
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 2, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        On Nov 3, 1:06 pm, "Jeremy Conlin" <jerem...@...> wrote:
        > I have been using MacVim since it was announced. I also knew of
        > vim-cocoa, but haven't tried it out (yet). There was also discussion
        > a few weeks ago about merging the two and have the work be primarily
        > on MacVim. If I recall correctly, MacVim was more mature, but
        > vim-cocoa rendered the text faster. Right?

        Going by the screenshot I posted, vim-cocoa's rendering is also less
        buggy. vim-cocoa also doesn't totally break when handed combining
        characters in filenames, but it doesn't get them right either: it just
        doesn't draw them at all.

        I expect there's a lot of scope for cross-pollination of ideas and
        techniques, even if the two stay as separate ports; I just wish I knew
        enough of the intricacies of Cocoa to help out.


        --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
        You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
        For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
        -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
      • Jjgod Jiang
        Hi Jeremy and anmar,On 11/3/07, Jeremy Conlin wrote: So what is the current status? Will we continue to have two different versions
        Message 3 of 22 , Nov 2, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Jeremy and anmar,

          On 11/3/07, Jeremy Conlin <jeremit0@...> wrote:
          > So what is the current status? Will we continue to have two different
          > versions for awhile or is the (partial) merging going to happen?

          I already started to investigate how to integrate the current rendering
          code of vim-cocoa into MacVim, but since MacVim implements more
          features than vim-cocoa, there could be some features involved with
          the text view which may not going to work after new code replaced the
          old one, so I think this integration is not going to be a one patch
          process, I wish Björn can create a branch on MacVim public repository
          so that I can push the changes to that branch and people in interest
          can fetch this branch and do some test before it actually going into
          the trunk.

          - Jiang

          --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
          You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
          For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
          -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
        • Nico Weber
          ... Easy: The upper one is vim-cocoa. It s scrollbars look all weird :-P (well, and the text probably looks better, even if I can t read it). Nico
          Message 4 of 22 , Nov 3, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            > So, who can guess which of these is MacVim, and which is vim-cocoa,
            > and how do you know?
            >
            > http://home.aanet.com.au/Screwtape/TheTwoVims.png

            Easy: The upper one is vim-cocoa. It's scrollbars look all weird :-P
            (well, and the text probably looks better, even if I can't read it).

            Nico

            --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
            You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
            For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
            -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
          • björn
            ... Instead of me handing out push access to the MacVim Git repo I think a better idea is that you create a fork of the MacVim repo. Simply go to
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 3, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              On 03/11/2007, Jjgod Jiang <gzjjgod@...> wrote:
              > I already started to investigate how to integrate the current rendering
              > code of vim-cocoa into MacVim, but since MacVim implements more
              > features than vim-cocoa, there could be some features involved with
              > the text view which may not going to work after new code replaced the
              > old one, so I think this integration is not going to be a one patch
              > process, I wish Björn can create a branch on MacVim public repository
              > so that I can push the changes to that branch and people in interest
              > can fetch this branch and do some test before it actually going into
              > the trunk.

              Instead of me handing out push access to the MacVim Git repo I think a
              better idea is that you create a fork of the MacVim repo. Simply go
              to

              http://repo.or.cz/w/MacVim.git

              and click the "fork" link in the top-right of the window. That way I
              can pull from you and push to the MacVim repo as I see fit. Also,
              this way anybody who wants to check out your progress can simply pull
              from your fork. Does that sound ok to you?


              /Björn

              --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
              You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
              For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
              -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
            • George V. Reilly
              The Vim.app in the tar.bz2 wouldn t open for me at all. I built vim-cocoa from the git repository. It runs, but I don t get any syntax highlighting. Instead, I
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 3, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                The Vim.app in the tar.bz2 wouldn't open for me at all.

                I built vim-cocoa from the git repository. It runs, but I don't get
                any syntax highlighting. Instead, I get
                E484: Can't open file
                /Applications/Vim.app/Contents/Contents/Resources/vim/syntax/syntax.vim.

                Note: I haven't installed vim-cocoa. I just ran 'open Vim.app' from
                the vim-cocoa/src directory.

                By contrast, running 'open MacVim.app', everything works fine.

                Intel 10.4.10, if that matters.
                --
                /George V. Reilly
                http://www.georgevreilly.com/blog

                --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
                You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
              • Jjgod Jiang
                Hi George, ... Would you please execute the following commands ... and tell me the results? (for the last command, I would like to see the line contain
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 3, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi George,

                  On 11/3/07, George V. Reilly <george@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The Vim.app in the tar.bz2 wouldn't open for me at all.
                  >
                  > I built vim-cocoa from the git repository. It runs, but I don't get
                  > any syntax highlighting. Instead, I get
                  > E484: Can't open file
                  > /Applications/Vim.app/Contents/Contents/Resources/vim/syntax/syntax.vim.

                  Would you please execute the following commands

                  :echo $VM
                  :echo $VIMRUNTIME
                  :ver

                  and tell me the results? (for the last command, I would like to see
                  the line contain
                  "fall-back for $VIM") that would be helpful for debugging this issue.

                  - Jiang

                  --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
                  You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                  For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                  -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
                • Jjgod Jiang
                  Hi Nico, ... I believe the issue you mentioned [1] has been fixed now. Thanks. About the `ugly scroll bar , I still cannot find an elegant solution to fix
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 3, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Nico,

                    On 11/3/07, Nico Weber <nicolasweber@...> wrote:
                    > Yay, a release :-) Looks very good so far. I found another minor
                    > scrollbar problem. I posted it to the issue tracker since you said you
                    > prefer that.

                    I believe the issue you mentioned [1] has been fixed now. Thanks.

                    About the `ugly scroll bar', I still cannot find an elegant solution
                    to fix that, I knew MacVim has a workaround for that problem, but that
                    workaround needs to check every existing scroll bars every time
                    gui_mch_set_scrollbar_pos() gets called, but gui_mch_set_scrollbar_pos()
                    really gets called very frequently, so I wish to make it as cheap as
                    possible.

                    - Jiang

                    [1] http://code.google.com/p/vim-cocoa/issues/detail?id=17

                    --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
                    You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                    For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                    -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
                  • George V. Reilly
                    ... $VIM: /Applications/Vim.app/Contents/Resources/vim $VIMRUNTIME: /Applications/Vim.app/Contents/Resources/vim fall-back for $VIM:
                    Message 9 of 22 , Nov 3, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      On 11/3/07, Jjgod Jiang <gzjjgod@...> wrote:
                      > Would you please execute the following commands
                      >
                      > :echo $VM
                      > :echo $VIMRUNTIME
                      > :ver
                      >
                      > and tell me the results? (for the last command, I would like to see
                      > the line contain
                      > "fall-back for $VIM") that would be helpful for debugging this issue.

                      $VIM: /Applications/Vim.app/Contents/Resources/vim
                      $VIMRUNTIME: /Applications/Vim.app/Contents/Resources/vim
                      fall-back for $VIM: "/Applications/Vim.app/Contents/Resources/vim"

                      I'm not setting VIM explicitly, so Vim must be computing $VIM from its defaults.

                      /George

                      --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
                      You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                      For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                      -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
                    • Nico Weber
                      ... Benji, could you give write access to someone to macvim.org? Panos, could you bring the wiki back up? We really need to post this somewhere on the web. In
                      Message 10 of 22 , Nov 3, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        > This is super great. One thing can you please elaborate on is how
                        > does Vim-cocoa and MacVim are related if any and is there a merge in
                        > the works? I thought there were.

                        Benji, could you give write access to someone to macvim.org? Panos,
                        could you bring the wiki back up? We really need to post this
                        somewhere on the web.

                        In a nutshell: MacVim and vim-cocoa are both "better" than the old
                        carbon version (which is still the "official" port). They are
                        implemented in different ways, which mean that MacVim can have several
                        vim windows, but it's a bit slower. Furthermore, MacVim is a bit more
                        mature and has a few more features (toolbar, gui tabs, nicer font
                        selection, ...).

                        Nico

                        --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
                        You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                        For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                        -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
                      • Jun T.
                        I ve tried vim-cocoa and it works great!. Especially good news to me is that it supports the inline input of CJK languages (on-the-spot style in X11 XIM
                        Message 11 of 22 , Nov 7, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I've tried vim-cocoa and it works great!.

                          Especially good news to me is that it supports the "inline input"
                          of CJK languages (on-the-spot style in X11 XIM terminology).

                          A bad news is that it doesn't fully control the Input Method,
                          i.e., the IM (such as Kotoeri) is still ON if I go to the normal mode
                          by hitting ESC. I must manually turn off the IM. If I go back to the
                          input mode I must turn it on again.

                          Carbon gvim doesn't support inline input (it uses a separate floating
                          window for IM), but it does support the full IM control if I apply
                          the atsui.patch (of Jigod Jiang himself); IM is automatically off if I
                          go to the normal mode, and automaticaly turned on again if I go back
                          to the input mode.

                          Are there any plan to support full IM control in vim-cocoa?

                          (MacVim uses "off-the-spot" style for IM and doesn't support full
                          IM control.)

                          Another minor problem is that the preedit area in the inline input
                          doesn't wrap to the next line. If the cursor is near the right end of
                          the window and if I start inputting Japanese by using IM, the preedit
                          area goes beyond the right end of the window but the region outside
                          the window is not displayed; this makes it impossible to see what I'm
                          typing now.

                          --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
                          You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                          For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                          -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
                        • Jjgod Jiang
                          Hi Jun, ... I m aware of that, but vim-cocoa and carbon vim control the IM status in different levels, maybe they have different capabilities, but I m not
                          Message 12 of 22 , Nov 11, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Jun,

                            On Nov 7, 2007 4:34 PM, Jun T. <takimoto-j@...> wrote:
                            > A bad news is that it doesn't fully control the Input Method,
                            > i.e., the IM (such as Kotoeri) is still ON if I go to the normal mode
                            > by hitting ESC. I must manually turn off the IM. If I go back to the
                            > input mode I must turn it on again.
                            >
                            > Carbon gvim doesn't support inline input (it uses a separate floating
                            > window for IM), but it does support the full IM control if I apply
                            > the atsui.patch (of Jigod Jiang himself); IM is automatically off if I
                            > go to the normal mode, and automaticaly turned on again if I go back
                            > to the input mode.

                            I'm aware of that, but vim-cocoa and carbon vim control the IM status in
                            different levels, maybe they have different capabilities, but I'm not sure.
                            It's still a problem to investigate, but I just don't have time to do so
                            recently.

                            > Another minor problem is that the preedit area in the inline input
                            > doesn't wrap to the next line. If the cursor is near the right end of
                            > the window and if I start inputting Japanese by using IM, the preedit
                            > area goes beyond the right end of the window but the region outside
                            > the window is not displayed; this makes it impossible to see what I'm
                            > typing now.

                            Thanks for pointing that out, it's a bug of course, I'll fix that in the next
                            release.

                            - Jiang

                            --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
                            You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                            For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                            -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
                          • Kazuki Sakamoto
                            Hi, ... The attached patch will enable to control the IM in vim-cocoa. It uses carbon API, because cocoa API can t get the IM status as far as I know. And, I m
                            Message 13 of 22 , Nov 12, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi,

                              On Nov 12, 2007 2:15 PM, Jjgod Jiang <gzjjgod@...> wrote:
                              > > A bad news is that it doesn't fully control the Input Method,
                              > > i.e., the IM (such as Kotoeri) is still ON if I go to the normal mode
                              > > by hitting ESC. I must manually turn off the IM. If I go back to the
                              > > input mode I must turn it on again.
                              > I'm aware of that, but vim-cocoa and carbon vim control the IM status in
                              > different levels, maybe they have different capabilities, but I'm not sure.
                              > It's still a problem to investigate, but I just don't have time to do so
                              > recently.

                              The attached patch will enable to control the IM in vim-cocoa.
                              It uses carbon API, because cocoa API can't get the IM status
                              as far as I know.

                              And, I'm not sure I can use KeyScript(smKeyRoman) to enable the IM,
                              'Roman' is Japanese input method, but carbon vim use this code.

                              Also GetScriptManagerVariable() is deprecated in Leopard(Mac OS X v10.5),
                              use TISCopyCurrentKeyboardInputSource, TISSelectInputSource, and so on.

                              http://developer.apple.com/documentation/TextFonts/Reference/TextInputSourcesReference/index.html

                              sakamoto

                              --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
                              You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                              For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                              -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
                            • Jun T.
                              Thank you for the patch. (I needed to add -framework Carbon when linking.) ... KeyScript() is called as KeyScript(active ? smKeySysScript : smKeyRoman); so I
                              Message 14 of 22 , Nov 13, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Thank you for the patch.
                                (I needed to add "-framework Carbon" when linking.)

                                >I'm not sure I can use KeyScript(smKeyRoman) to enable the IM,
                                >'Roman' is Japanese input method, but carbon vim use this code.

                                KeyScript() is called as
                                KeyScript(active ? smKeySysScript : smKeyRoman);
                                so I think smKeySysScript is Japanease (on a Japanease sytem),
                                and smKeyRoman is Roman.

                                BTW, does anybody know whether there are any benefits if an app
                                is "pure Cocoa"? Or is it OK to occasionally use Carbon API in
                                Cocoa apps?


                                PS
                                Sakamoto-san, I knew you were maintaining a private port file
                                of vim for MacPorts, but I didn't know it has already supported
                                vim-cocoa.

                                --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
                                You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                                For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                                -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
                              • Nico Weber
                                ... As far as I know the main argument for cocoa (besides being more buzzword compliant :-P) is that apple is not porting the gui part of carbon to 64 bit, and
                                Message 15 of 22 , Nov 13, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  > BTW, does anybody know whether there are any benefits if an app
                                  > is "pure Cocoa"? Or is it OK to occasionally use Carbon API in
                                  > Cocoa apps?

                                  As far as I know the main argument for cocoa (besides being more
                                  buzzword compliant :-P) is that apple is not porting the gui part of
                                  carbon to 64 bit, and is encouraging use of cocoa in general. Using
                                  carbon for non-gui stuff is fine, but if there's a cocoa api as well
                                  as a carbon api, using the cocoa api is more future-proof i guess (if
                                  there's no cocoa api yet, you don't have much choice, though).

                                  Nico

                                  --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
                                  You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                                  For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                                  -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
                                • Tim Allen
                                  ... I recently watched a Google Tech Talk given by the lead programmer of VMware Fusion for OS X[1] and while he did talk about VMware Fusion, he also spent a
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Nov 13, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    On Nov 13, 8:06 pm, "Jun T." <takimot...@...> wrote:
                                    > BTW, does anybody know whether there are any benefits if an app
                                    > is "pure Cocoa"? Or is it OK to occasionally use Carbon API in
                                    > Cocoa apps?

                                    I recently watched a Google Tech Talk given by the lead programmer of
                                    VMware Fusion for OS X[1] and while he did talk about VMware Fusion,
                                    he also spent a good chunk of time complaining that any non-trivial
                                    Mac application is pretty much required to use at least Carbon and
                                    Cocoa to work, if not BSD/Mach and kernel hooks as well. A "pure
                                    Cocoa" app probably has the advantage of not having to deal with three
                                    or four different file APIs or graphics APIs, but if you can deal with
                                    the complexity of the code and you need a feature that's only exposed
                                    via Carbon or BSD, feel free.

                                    [1] http://blogs.vmware.com/vmtn/2007/10/google-tech-tal.html


                                    --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
                                    You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                                    For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                                    -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
                                  • Jjgod Jiang
                                    Hi, ... Thanks a lot! I ll try to figure out a solution suitable for both pre-10.5 and 10.5 systems. - Jiang
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Nov 14, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hi,

                                      On 11/12/07, Kazuki Sakamoto <sakamoto.kazuki@...> wrote:
                                      > Hi,
                                      >
                                      > The attached patch will enable to control the IM in vim-cocoa.
                                      > It uses carbon API, because cocoa API can't get the IM status
                                      > as far as I know.
                                      >
                                      > And, I'm not sure I can use KeyScript(smKeyRoman) to enable the IM,
                                      > 'Roman' is Japanese input method, but carbon vim use this code.
                                      >
                                      > Also GetScriptManagerVariable() is deprecated in Leopard(Mac OS X v10.5),
                                      > use TISCopyCurrentKeyboardInputSource, TISSelectInputSource, and so on.
                                      >
                                      > http://developer.apple.com/documentation/TextFonts/Reference/TextInputSourcesReference/index.html

                                      Thanks a lot! I'll try to figure out a solution suitable for both
                                      pre-10.5 and 10.5
                                      systems.

                                      - Jiang

                                      --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
                                      You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                                      For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                                      -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.