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Re: Plans for MacVim-6.1?

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  • Bram Moolenaar
    ... Since I can t produce a Mac binary, and others produce Mac binaries at irregular intervals (with or without their own patches), you need to follow the
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 11, 2002
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      Sven Guckes wrote:

      > So - what is the plan to get *the*
      > MacVim-6.1 onto the FTP mirrors?

      Since I can't produce a Mac binary, and others produce Mac binaries at
      irregular intervals (with or without their own patches), you need to
      follow the links on the download page on vim.sf.net. Or use your own
      download page, of course.

      --
      hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict:
      237. You tattoo your email address on your forehead.

      /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.moolenaar.net \\\
      /// Creator of Vim -- http://vim.sf.net -- ftp://ftp.vim.org/pub/vim \\\
      \\\ Project leader for A-A-P -- http://www.a-a-p.org ///
      \\\ Help me helping AIDS orphans in Uganda - http://iccf-holland.org ///
    • Mac Vim Support (Axel Kielhorn)
      ... There will never be *the* MacVim version. Benji can build MacOS X carbon Vims, and I can build MacOS 8/9 Vims for PPC and 68k (68020 and above). Both
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 11, 2002
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        At 16:46 Uhr +0100 2002-03-11, Sven Guckes wrote:
        >So - what is the plan to get *the*
        >MacVim-6.1 onto the FTP mirrors?

        There will never be *the* MacVim version.

        Benji can build MacOS X carbon Vims, and I can build MacOS 8/9 Vims
        for PPC and 68k (68020 and above). Both operating systems are
        different, like Win95 and WinNT (or even Win 3.1 and WinNT 4.0).

        I'm not sure about the requierements for 68k MacVim, I haven't booted
        my Performa this year, but even if I boot the machine I had to
        install 7.5.5 to test compatibility.

        I guess Vim 6.1 release would be a good idea for a test in the old machine.

        Axel
      • Benji Fisher
        ... I volunteer to produce binaries for OS X Carbon as regularly as you like. I can think of various reasons you might not want to take me up on this: 1.
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 11, 2002
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          On Monday, March 11, 2002, at 11:48 AM, Bram Moolenaar wrote:

          >
          > Sven Guckes wrote:
          >
          >> So - what is the plan to get *the*
          >> MacVim-6.1 onto the FTP mirrors?
          >
          > Since I can't produce a Mac binary, and others produce Mac binaries at
          > irregular intervals (with or without their own patches), you need to
          > follow the links on the download page on vim.sf.net. Or use your own
          > download page, of course.

          I volunteer to produce binaries for OS X Carbon as regularly as you
          like. I can think of various reasons you might not want to take me up
          on this:

          1. There are still problems with the OS X port. For example, I cannot
          get it to work so that both F and Command-F can be mapped.

          2. One more piece to gather before each release of vim.

          3. It is not *the* MacVim.

          Eventually, Problem 1 should go away. If we are lucky, we may also get
          a Carbon version that runs on OS X and also on some versions of Mac OS 8
          and 9. (Sven: please do not lose too much hair over the "some
          versions" clause. ;)

          --Benji Fisher
        • Sven Guckes
          ... ok, my point did not get through I think. I don t want one more version of MacVim. How about a release of MacVim for every OS with each user release? isn t
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 11, 2002
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            * Benji Fisher <fisherbb@...> [020311 19:49]:
            > I volunteer to produce binaries for
            > OS X Carbon as regularly as you like.
            > If we are lucky, we
            > may also get a Carbon version that runs on OS X and also
            > on some versions of Mac OS 8 and 9. (Sven: please do not
            > lose too much hair over the "some versions" clause. ;)

            ok, my point did not get through I think.

            I don't want one more version of MacVim.

            How about a release of MacVim for
            every OS with each user release?
            isn't this what users expect of us?

            When I look back at the time when I syarted
            supporting Vim then it was also for having
            a version for Mac. But there have not been
            updates for Macs for almost two years now.

            This is bad! Real bad.

            And I'd rather save my time of updating the
            page telling users to download one of four
            or even five experimental versions or keep
            them waiting until the next release.

            What users need is a release. They have
            been waiting for it for two years now.

            A page that says "no user release since
            Vim-5.6" is by far more honest.

            But I'd prefer some more talk on
            how to prepare the binaries for
            Vim-6.1. Not several version
            for some platforms - but one
            version for *each* platform.

            Sven [lose hair? ha!]
          • Bram Moolenaar
            Sven - ... Good. We re ready then. :-) ... There are several versions on the download page on vim.sf.net. That s the best you can get. ... There have been
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 12, 2002
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              Sven -

              > I don't want one more version of MacVim.

              Good. We're ready then. :-)

              > How about a release of MacVim for
              > every OS with each user release?
              > isn't this what users expect of us?

              There are several versions on the download page on vim.sf.net. That's
              the best you can get.

              > When I look back at the time when I syarted
              > supporting Vim then it was also for having
              > a version for Mac. But there have not been
              > updates for Macs for almost two years now.

              There have been several updates. None of them is perfect, of course.

              > This is bad! Real bad.
              >
              > And I'd rather save my time of updating the
              > page telling users to download one of four
              > or even five experimental versions or keep
              > them waiting until the next release.

              You help users best by explaining which version is useful for which
              user.

              > What users need is a release. They have
              > been waiting for it for two years now.

              Yeah, hopefully all Mac-specific problems will get fixed. But this
              requires Mac developers, and we don't have so many.

              > A page that says "no user release since
              > Vim-5.6" is by far more honest.

              No, the 6.x versions are probably much better than that old release.
              I don't have an overview of which problem exists in which version.
              Perhaps someone can make that overview (hint!).

              > But I'd prefer some more talk on
              > how to prepare the binaries for
              > Vim-6.1. Not several version
              > for some platforms - but one
              > version for *each* platform.

              A console and GUI version for each platform, at least. And perhaps
              compiled with different features (minimal, multi-byte, big, etc.).
              That's all fine, so long as it's clear for a user which one he would
              like to download.

              > Sven [lose hair? ha!]

              You must still have two, no? :-)

              --
              hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict:
              263. You have more e-mail addresses than shorts.

              /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.moolenaar.net \\\
              /// Creator of Vim -- http://vim.sf.net -- ftp://ftp.vim.org/pub/vim \\\
              \\\ Project leader for A-A-P -- http://www.a-a-p.org ///
              \\\ Help me helping AIDS orphans in Uganda - http://iccf-holland.org ///
            • Mac Vim Support (Axel Kielhorn)
              ... Vim 6.0.17 for Mac OS Classic was released on 2001-10-21 and announced on this list. Since then there have been some updates, the last one I still have in
              Message 6 of 12 , Mar 12, 2002
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                At 22:46 Uhr +0100 2002-03-11, Sven Guckes wrote:
                >
                >When I look back at the time when I syarted
                >supporting Vim then it was also for having
                >a version for Mac. But there have not been
                >updates for Macs for almost two years now.
                >
                >This is bad! Real bad.
                >

                Vim 6.0.17 for Mac OS Classic was released on 2001-10-21 and
                announced on this list. Since then there have been some updates, the
                last one I still have in my archive was 6.0.127 on 2002-01-13.

                There has no 6.1a release because Benji and I have been sending each
                other patches but I hope to upload a 6.1b release.

                Axel

                BTW, www.tu-bs.de/~i0080108 is dead, but I can't remove it because I
                no longer have access to that site. Guess I have to bribe the admins
                to get it removed.
              • Sven Guckes
                ... That s only possible when the versions work flawlessly. Otherwise it s a matter of which version has the least bugs . :-( ... Please add a request for
                Message 7 of 12 , Mar 12, 2002
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                  * Bram Moolenaar <Bram@...> [020312 18:54]:
                  > You help users best by explaining which
                  > version is useful for which user.

                  That's only possible when the versions work flawlessly.
                  Otherwise it's a matter of "which version has the least bugs". :-(

                  > > What users need is a release. They have
                  > > been waiting for it for two years now.
                  > Yeah, hopefully all Mac-specific problems will get fixed.
                  > But this requires Mac developers, and we don't have so many.

                  Please add a request for more Mac developers
                  to the next user release, Bram!

                  > > A page that says "no user release since
                  > > Vim-5.6" is by far more honest.
                  > No, the 6.x versions are probably
                  > much better than that old release.
                  > I don't have an overview of which
                  > problem exists in which version.
                  > Perhaps someone can make that overview (hint!).

                  well, i won't do that any more. it takes
                  time and equipment - which I dont have.

                  I'd make it a requirement for each
                  maintainer to gather these info
                  on his webpage and add the list
                  to each new package as a TODO.

                  > > But I'd prefer some more talk on
                  > > how to prepare the binaries for
                  > > Vim-6.1. Not several version
                  > > for some platforms - but one
                  > > version for *each* platform.
                  > A console and GUI version for each platform, at least.
                  > And perhaps compiled with different features
                  > (minimal, multi-byte, big, etc.). That's all fine, so long
                  > as it's clear for a user which one he would like to download.

                  platform: 68k, MacOS 8, MacOS 9, MacOS X
                  features: tiny, small, normal, big, huge
                  that'll be 20 versions at least. oh, my.

                  > > Sven [lose hair? ha!]
                  > You must still have two, no? :-)

                  ;-)

                  Sven
                • Bram Moolenaar
                  ... Knowing which version has the least bugs is very useful! ... That won t help. Any Mac developer that can help already knows his help is wanted. Perhaps
                  Message 8 of 12 , Mar 12, 2002
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                    Sven Guckes wrote:

                    > * Bram Moolenaar <Bram@...> [020312 18:54]:
                    > > You help users best by explaining which
                    > > version is useful for which user.
                    >
                    > That's only possible when the versions work flawlessly.
                    > Otherwise it's a matter of "which version has the least bugs". :-(

                    Knowing which version has the least bugs is very useful!

                    > > > What users need is a release. They have
                    > > > been waiting for it for two years now.
                    > > Yeah, hopefully all Mac-specific problems will get fixed.
                    > > But this requires Mac developers, and we don't have so many.
                    >
                    > Please add a request for more Mac developers
                    > to the next user release, Bram!

                    That won't help. Any Mac developer that can help already knows his help
                    is wanted. Perhaps asking this on a Mac maillist or newsgroup would
                    help, but I don't know my way around there.

                    > well, i won't do that any more. it takes
                    > time and equipment - which I dont have.
                    >
                    > I'd make it a requirement for each
                    > maintainer to gather these info
                    > on his webpage and add the list
                    > to each new package as a TODO.

                    And discover we have even fewer maintainers left, because it takes them
                    too much time... It's too easy to write a list of requirements. It's
                    not so easy to actually do the work.

                    Let's be happy with what we have first, then ask for some more! :-)

                    --
                    We're knights of the Round Table
                    Our shows are formidable
                    But many times
                    We're given rhymes
                    That are quite unsingable
                    We're opera mad in Camelot
                    We sing from the diaphragm a lot.
                    "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" PYTHON (MONTY) PICTURES LTD

                    /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.moolenaar.net \\\
                    /// Creator of Vim -- http://vim.sf.net -- ftp://ftp.vim.org/pub/vim \\\
                    \\\ Project leader for A-A-P -- http://www.a-a-p.org ///
                    \\\ Help me helping AIDS orphans in Uganda - http://iccf-holland.org ///
                  • david craig
                    ... Forgive, but ... which *is* the MacVIM? I long ago became so hopelessly confused by this that I gave up trying to figure it out. David Craig
                    Message 9 of 12 , Mar 13, 2002
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                      > So - what is the plan to get *the* MacVim-6.1 onto the FTP mirrors?

                      Forgive, but ... which *is* "the" MacVIM? I long ago became so
                      hopelessly confused by this that I gave up trying to figure it out.

                      David Craig


                      <http://www.panix.com/~dac/>
                    • Sven Guckes
                      ... that s *exactly* what I meant! *grin* I suppose that *the* MacVim is a binary with everything - and a different binary for each platform, of course.
                      Message 10 of 12 , Mar 13, 2002
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                        * david craig <dac@...> [2002-03-13 20:19]:
                        > > So - what is the plan to get *the* MacVim-6.1 onto the FTP mirrors?
                        > Forgive, but ... which *is* "the" MacVIM? I long ago became so
                        > hopelessly confused by this that I gave up trying to figure it out.

                        that's *exactly* what I meant! *grin*

                        I suppose that *the* MacVim is a binary "with everything" -
                        and a different binary for each platform, of course.

                        Sven
                      • Mac Vim Support (Axel Kielhorn)
                        ... I promise to add a web page when I release 6.1b:-) And I will include a link to Benji s page for MacOS X users. ... There will be no console version for
                        Message 11 of 12 , Mar 14, 2002
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                          At 19:49 Uhr +0100 2002-03-12, Bram Moolenaar wrote:

                          > > And I'd rather save my time of updating the
                          >> page telling users to download one of four
                          >> or even five experimental versions or keep
                          >> them waiting until the next release.
                          >
                          >You help users best by explaining which version is useful for which
                          >user.

                          I promise to add a web page when I release 6.1b:-) And I will include
                          a link to Benji's page for MacOS X users.


                          >A console and GUI version for each platform, at least. And perhaps
                          >compiled with different features (minimal, multi-byte, big, etc.).
                          >That's all fine, so long as it's clear for a user which one he would
                          >like to download.

                          There will be no console version for pre-MacOS X, I can promise that as well:-)

                          I don't think a small version for PPC is useful, these machines are
                          quite powerful and have a lot of memory. (Next someone with a PMac
                          6100 will complain.) But I'm trying to build a small version for
                          68000. These machines are definatly slow and don't have a lot of
                          memory.

                          Axel
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