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Re: New snapshot (r38) of MacVim

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  • björn
    ... That sounds like a familiar problem, which I thought I had fixed. I will experiment around with the zooming&resizing and ask you (and everybody else) to
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 31 3:51 AM
      > As for zoom button behaviour...hold down Cmd when you resize.
      > Presto!  I also think that height-only zoom should be the default,
      > but for some reason I got the impression that Vim users preferred
      > the zoom-to-all-i've-got style.  I will switch the role of the two
      > with the next snapshot (I certainly _never_ zoom to fill the screen).

      Much nicer. The problem with zoom without cmd is that it resizes the
      window to max height and about .75*max_width on first click, max
      height and width on second click, and then toggles between these two
      states (instead of toggling between the original size and whatever
      the optimal size is). zoom-to-all-i've-got is completely useless with
      a decent (24'' or 30'') external monitor or a MBP with a good
      resolution imho :-P

      That sounds like a familiar problem, which I thought I had fixed.  I will experiment around with the zooming&resizing and ask you (and everybody else) to try it out.  I wish I could test it more properly myself, but it seems that it needs to be tested with different resolutions, etc.  It will be in the next snapshot.

      > I've noticed some peculiarities with the toolbar as well...check
      > out screenshot #3 (how nice that I managed to capture this on a
      > screenshot :) ).  It's weird...I'm wondering if it is a bug in
      > NSToolbar...I certainly have no control over it and it is not
      > considered part of the "content view" of the window, so there
      > should be no way to accidentally draw on top of it.  (And I don't
      > even do any drawing myself...)

      I doubt this is a bug in NSToolbar. It works in too many
      applications ;-) If it's not fixed by the weekend, I might see if I
      can fix this.

      That would be greatly appreciated.

      > Oh, I just tried to do some actual work with MacVim (I opened
      > gui_mac.c), and after hitting zoom (first thing I do with the "old"
      > vim), thinking "oh, damn, wrong", hitting zoom again (because that
      > undoes zoom in every sane application) and thinking "damn, wrong
      > _again_", the window was completely broken: Only the first 13.5
      > toolbar icons were drawn (the right half of nr 14 ws missing) and
      > there was no text visible at all, only patches of color. Hitting Ctrl-
      > L didn't help.
      >
      > Have you (or anybody else for that matter) managed to reproduce
      > this?  I've terrorized the zoom button more than I care to admit
      > and never experience any zooming problems.  Maybe I'll just disable
      > window resizing. ;)

      Might be Intel-specific. It's quite easy to reproduce: Launch

           ~/Desktop nico$ MacVim-snapshot-r38/MacVim.app/Contents/MacOS/
      Vim -g ~/src/vim7/src/gui_mac.c

      , hit zoom (windows turns white, becomes somewhat large), zoom
      (window fills screen, still white), zoom (window is a bit smaller
      again, has some patches of color in it). Happens every time.

      Never happens for me.  It would be good if somebody else could confirm this bug (and note if it happens on an Intel or a PPC).


      /Björn

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    • björn
      ... This is expected (Apple) behaviour for apps with multiple windows (e.g. see what happens when you close the last window in Safari). The thing that is
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 31 4:00 AM
        :q on the last buffer closes the window and not the app? Is that
        intentional?

        This is expected (Apple) behaviour for apps with multiple windows (e.g. see what happens when you close the last window in Safari).

        The thing that is confusing is that the application you are running is MacVim (the GUI) and not Vim, which is just a process associated with one of MacVim's windows.  When you type :q, you are telling Vim to quit, but to MacVim this only means "close the window".  To me this is not so much of an issue, since I am used to hitting <D-q> to close apps on a Mac anyway, but if you are coming from another OS this might seem weird.


        /Björn
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      • Robert Hicks
        ... Yes, it seems wierd since the carbon gvim closes with :q the last window. Isn t that the expected vim behavior though? Is the object to Macify Vim on
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 31 1:42 PM
          björn wrote:
          > :q on the last buffer closes the window and not the app? Is that
          > intentional?
          >
          >
          > This is expected (Apple) behaviour for apps with multiple windows (e.g.
          > see what happens when you close the last window in Safari).
          >
          > The thing that is confusing is that the application you are running is
          > MacVim (the GUI) and not Vim, which is just a process associated with
          > one of MacVim's windows. When you type :q, you are telling Vim to quit,
          > but to MacVim this only means "close the window". To me this is not so
          > much of an issue, since I am used to hitting <D-q> to close apps on a
          > Mac anyway, but if you are coming from another OS this might seem weird.
          >

          Yes, it seems wierd since the carbon gvim closes with :q the last
          window. Isn't that the "expected" vim behavior though? Is the object to
          Macify Vim on OSX?

          Robert


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        • björn
          ... I must be misunderstanding your question, because to me it seems like I already answered it in my last post. In any case, let me try to answer it again.
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 1, 2007
            >     :q on the last buffer closes the window and not the app? Is that
            >     intentional?
            >
            >
            > This is expected (Apple) behaviour for apps with multiple windows (e.g.
            > see what happens when you close the last window in Safari).
            >
            > The thing that is confusing is that the application you are running is
            > MacVim (the GUI) and not Vim, which is just a process associated with
            > one of MacVim's windows.  When you type :q, you are telling Vim to quit,
            > but to MacVim this only means "close the window".  To me this is not so
            > much of an issue, since I am used to hitting <D-q> to close apps on a
            > Mac anyway, but if you are coming from another OS this might seem weird.
            >

            Yes, it seems wierd since the carbon gvim closes with :q the last
            window. Isn't that the "expected" vim behavior though? Is the object to
            Macify Vim on OSX?

            I must be misunderstanding your question, because to me it seems like I already answered it in my last post.  In any case, let me try to answer it again.

            Carbon Vim is one application running one Vim process.  MacVim is one application running multiple Vim processes.  I.e. Carbon Vim is an application with only one window and MacVim is an application with multiple windows.  It is standard (Apple) behaviour that apps with only one window should quit when the window closes, whereas apps with multiple windows should only quit when the user selects "Quit" on the application's menu.  Thus, MacVim should _not_ quit when you type ":q" even if you only had one Vim process ( i.e. one window) open at that time.

            Of course, if many people object to this kind of behaviour in MacVim then I could change it.  But I would need a good reason to do so.  Saying that "Carbon Vim" behaves in this way is not enough of an argument to me.  I do appreciate the input though! :)


            /Björn

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          • Robert Hicks
            björn wrote: ... I understand. It isn t just a Carbon Vim thing though or maybe I am crazy. When I have vim open :q closes vim when there are no
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 1, 2007
              björn wrote:
              <snip>
              > Of course, if many people object to this kind of behaviour in MacVim
              > then I could change it. But I would need a good reason to do so.
              > Saying that "Carbon Vim" behaves in this way is not enough of an
              > argument to me. I do appreciate the input though! :)
              >
              >
              I understand. It isn't just a "Carbon Vim" thing though or maybe I am
              crazy. When I have "vim" open :q closes vim when there are no other
              buffers open. On Windows and HP/UX when I use GVim and I :q when there
              are no other buffers open GVim exits entirely. It is only the MacVim one
              that behaves differently. I am not saying that is good or bad. I just
              wanted to make sure that it was the intended behavior since it is a
              "snapshot" and you would have liked feedback on it. : )

              Thanks for the answer and for the build. I do like it.

              Robert


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            • björn
              ... This is kind of funny...just after having written that long rant I sat down and did some work on MacVim only to realise the menus behave very oddly if
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 1, 2007
                > Of course, if many people object to this kind of behaviour in MacVim
                > then I could change it.  But I would need a good reason to do so.
                > Saying that "Carbon Vim" behaves in this way is not enough of an
                > argument to me.  I do appreciate the input though! :)
                >
                >
                I understand. It isn't just a "Carbon Vim" thing though or maybe I am
                crazy. When I have "vim" open :q closes vim when there are no other
                buffers open. On Windows and HP/UX when I use GVim and I :q when there
                are no other buffers open GVim exits entirely. It is only the MacVim one
                that behaves differently. I am not saying that is good or bad. I just
                wanted to make sure that it was the intended behavior since it is a
                "snapshot" and you would have liked feedback on it.  : )

                Thanks for the answer and for the build. I do like it.

                This is kind of funny...just after having written that long rant I sat down and did some work on MacVim only to realise the menus behave very oddly if there are no Vim windows open.  The best short-term solution was to...here it comes...make MacVim quit automatically when the last window closes.  :)

                So lets see if anybody has any objections as to why MacVim _shouldn't_ quit when the last window closes.  Like Robert says, the good side to this solution is that this is more familiar to Vim users from other platforms;  the bad side is that it is not standard Apple behaviour.  Which one do people think is the lesser evil here?


                /Björn

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              • Jeremy Conlin
                ... IMHO, I think an app should close when its last window is close. I realize this isn t very Mac like, but this is a soft rule. There are many apps that
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 2, 2007
                  On 8/2/07, björn <bjorn.winckler@...> wrote:
                  This is kind of funny...just after having written that long rant I sat down and did some work on MacVim only to realise the menus behave very oddly if there are no Vim windows open.  The best short-term solution was to...here it comes...make MacVim quit automatically when the last window closes.  :)

                  So lets see if anybody has any objections as to why MacVim _shouldn't_ quit when the last window closes.  Like Robert says, the good side to this solution is that this is more familiar to Vim users from other platforms;  the bad side is that it is not standard Apple behaviour.  Which one do people think is the lesser evil here?
                   


                  IMHO, I think an app should close when its last window is close.  I realize this isn't very Mac like, but this is a soft rule.  There are many apps that quit when their last window is closed.  In short, I think its an old tradition that is dying.

                  Jeremy

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                • björn
                  ... Yes, don t get me wrong here...the intentions are to make MacVim follow the HIG as much as is judged sensible (by me and whoever voices an opinion on this
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 3, 2007
                    >
                    > It should do what the HIG says; ie stay open. Disable the menus if there's
                    > no window. That way, I can hit Cmd-N to open a new vim window, and opening
                    > files is slightly faster because the app is already loaded (atm, this is not
                    > really true because each window spawns its own process, but in the long run
                    > it might be).
                    >
                    > Nico

                    another vote for following the HIG. i was under the impression that
                    this project was to make a more Mac-like vim. there could always be a
                    preference to quit the app when closing the last window.

                    Yes, don't get me wrong here...the intentions are to make MacVim follow the HIG as much as is judged sensible (by me and whoever voices an opinion on this group).  I only violated the "stay-open" rule because I ran into a minor problem, and thought I'd ask for everybody's opinion on this issue.

                    I will add a user default which controls whether MacVim should quit when the last window closes, and the default will follow the HIG.


                    /Björn

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                  • Robert Hicks
                    ... Maybe because I am used to doing :q on every other operating system? Make it play nice sure but lets not change expected behavior. Robert
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 3, 2007
                      Nico Weber wrote:
                      >> Yes, don't get me wrong here...the intentions are to make MacVim
                      >> follow the HIG as much as is judged sensible (by me and whoever
                      >> voices an opinion on this group). I only violated the "stay-open"
                      >> rule because I ran into a minor problem, and thought I'd ask for
                      >> everybody's opinion on this issue.
                      >
                      > Don't let your app be dictated by small implementation problems ;-)
                      >
                      >> I will add a user default which controls whether MacVim should quit
                      >> when the last window closes, and the default will follow the HIG.
                      >
                      > Why even have an option? Hitting cmd-q is even quicker than :q, all
                      > people using a mac know cmd-q, only very few people will change this
                      > preference and it makes the code a tiny bit more complex :-P
                      >

                      Maybe because I am used to doing :q on every other operating system?
                      Make it play nice sure but lets not change expected behavior.

                      Robert


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