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Re: [ANN] MacVim.app Google code page

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  • björn
    ... This might not come as a big surprise...but this is exactly how I want Vim to behave as well, and I dislike the idea of having several instances of the
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 26, 2007
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      > As for the multi-window feature: each window runs its own Vim process.  So
      > each time you open a new window MacVim uses NSTask to execute
      > MacVim.app/Contents/MacOS/Vim, which is just your regular Vim.  Then I've
      > set it up so the GUI and Vim communicates via Mach ports.  Effectively, you
      > are running several instances of Vim but it is all coordinated by the one
      > GUI app.  Obviously, this is a solution that might not work that well in the
      > end, but for me it has been good so far.

      I can only speak for myself, but I actually find this very good. As
      long as gvim itself doesn't support multiple GUI windows, I think that
      this is more sound. And for that matter, I wouldn't need multiple
      windows; I use multiple vim windows and tabs combined, and I feel this
      is perfect. I often have several vim instances running with different
      sessions and settings altogether. Your solution makes it all work much
      better in the OS X environment without changing these premises.

      This might not come as a big surprise...but this is exactly how I want Vim to behave as well, and I dislike the idea of having several instances of the same app running with several copies of the same icon cluttering up the dock.  Apparently, this is the only 'unique' feature of MacVim at the moment, and I am anxious to see how it will work out in the long run.  I'm glad you like it.

      As for tabs. Your solution looks very good indeed, and I like that
      they are draggable. I really like Nico Webers' slide drawer
      implementation *a lot* as well though. If at all possible, how about
      something along the lines of a 'tabmode' option to control this? I
      guess that's not in the near future, but just to suggest it.

      Thank John Pannell at positivespinmedia.com for the tabs...I only used his framework.  :)

      As for Nico's slide drawer;  I have not used this myself, but I can see how it makes sense in that you'll be able to see a lot more "tabs" at once.  It would be easy enough to abstract the tab code slightly to allow the user to choose how tabs are rendered, but yeah, not right now.


      /Björn


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    • Nico Weber
      ... Of course it s right to have only one instance of vim. I just hoped that you had added support for several top level gui frames ( windows how you normally
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 26, 2007
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        > This might not come as a big surprise...but this is exactly how I
        > want Vim to behave as well, and I dislike the idea of having
        > several instances of the same app running with several copies of
        > the same icon cluttering up the dock. Apparently, this is the only
        > 'unique' feature of MacVim at the moment, and I am anxious to see
        > how it will work out in the long run. I'm glad you like it.

        Of course it's right to have only one instance of vim. I just hoped
        that you had added support for several top level gui frames
        ("windows" how you normally call them, but that term is taken in vim
        already) to core vim -- that's something I've been doing some (very
        little) work on (needs less memory, completion works accross windows,
        etc.. Perhaps I can finish it one day. Until then, your way of doing
        this is very nice.
        >
        > As for Nico's slide drawer; I have not used this myself, but I can
        > see how it makes sense in that you'll be able to see a lot more
        > "tabs" at once. It would be easy enough to abstract the tab code
        > slightly to allow the user to choose how tabs are rendered, but
        > yeah, not right now.

        Maybe have a "taboverflow" behaviour that switches from the tabs-at-
        the-top to drawer-style tabs if more than X tabs are open. But not
        right now :-)

        Nico



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      • Bram Moolenaar
        ... I think we can discuss about the tab label implementation forever. It s a personal choice. Would it be possible to make this an option somehow? Or would
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 26, 2007
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          Niklas Linström wrote:

          > As for tabs. Your solution looks very good indeed, and I like that
          > they are draggable. I really like Nico Webers' slide drawer
          > implementation *a lot* as well though. If at all possible, how about
          > something along the lines of a 'tabmode' option to control this? I
          > guess that's not in the near future, but just to suggest it.

          I think we can discuss about the tab label implementation forever. It's
          a personal choice. Would it be possible to make this an option somehow?
          Or would that be too complicated, implementing both. It could be an
          option that is only used the moment the GUI is started and can't be
          changed later.

          --
          You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be
          misquoted, then used against you.

          /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
          /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
          \\\ download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org ///
          \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org ///

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        • Nico Weber
          ... IMO we should have a taboverflow option with the values nodrawer , draweronoverflow and alwaysdrawer (well, or similar), that controls which tab
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 26, 2007
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            > I think we can discuss about the tab label implementation forever.
            > It's
            > a personal choice. Would it be possible to make this an option
            > somehow?
            > Or would that be too complicated, implementing both. It could be an
            > option that is only used the moment the GUI is started and can't be
            > changed later.

            IMO we should have a "taboverflow" option with the values "nodrawer",
            "draweronoverflow" and "alwaysdrawer" (well, or similar), that
            controls which tab style is used based on how many tabs are currently
            open. This should be changable at runtime.

            But as Bjorn said, not now. I guess I'd have to reimplement the
            drawer in Cocoa anyways.

            Nico


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          • björn
            ... I would say having both tabs & drawer is quite feasible, but to make it nice would require some work. Adding a hack that will let you choose between the
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 27, 2007
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              > > I think we can discuss about the tab label implementation forever.
              > > It's
              > > a personal choice. Would it be possible to make this an option
              > > somehow?
              > > Or would that be too complicated, implementing both. It could be an
              > > option that is only used the moment the GUI is started and can't be
              > > changed later.
              >
              > IMO we should have a "taboverflow" option with the values "nodrawer",
              > "draweronoverflow" and "alwaysdrawer" (well, or similar), that
              > controls which tab style is used based on how many tabs are currently
              > open. This should be changable at runtime.

              I would say having both tabs & drawer is quite feasible, but to make
              it "nice" would require some work. Adding a hack that will let you
              choose between the two would not take me that long (granted that Nico
              would help me transfer his existing code to MacVim), but do you judge
              this feature important enough for such "dirty" work at the moment?

              The "right" way (this is a guess...I haven't thought about it that
              much) would be to make Nico's drawer a delegate of the NSTabView (this
              is what PSMTabBarControl does) and handle things from there. This
              would require almost no change to the MacVim code (!) but I think it
              would be a bit of an effort. If you have the time and inclination
              Nico, then check out PSMTabBarControl (it's under MacVim/
              PSMTabBarControl) and see if you can figure out how it deals with the
              NSTabView delegate methods. (Note that there is always an 'invisible'
              NSTabView present which holds all the NSTabViewItems, PSMTabBarControl
              simply looks at this to decide which tabs to draw.) With this
              approach it would be simple to add options to let you choose if/how/
              when you want the drawer or the tabs---just change whether
              PSMTabBarControl or the drawer is the delegate of the NSTabView, and
              hide one or the other (but it would be unfeasible to have _both_
              visible at the same time).

              There are some much more pressing user interface issues I would rather
              focus my time on at the moment though (I will start a discussion on
              this soon), so unless people find this to be a make or break issue, I
              will let it rest until further notice.


              /Björn


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            • Ryan Phillips
              ... Bjorn, Excellent work. Is the main editor window double buffered? Thank you, Ryan --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 27, 2007
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                "bjorn.winckler" <bjorn.winckler@...> said:
                >
                > I am happy to announce MacVim.app - a new port of Vim to Mac OS X.
                > This is a project I have been working on for almost a year now and it
                > is finally in such a state that I believe it might be usable for
                > others than just me.
                >
                > The goal of MacVim is to look better and integrate more seamlessly
                > with the Mac than the existing Carbon port of Vim. Its main features
                > are:
                >
                > - Multiple windows (Expos? works with the MacVim windows)
                > - Safari-style tabs (using PSMTabBarControl from Positive Spin Media)
                > - Toolbar
                >
                > I will be adding things as time goes on, but for now I would like some
                > people to test it out and focus on getting rid of all bugs that are
                > sure to be discovered.
                >

                Bjorn,

                Excellent work. Is the main editor window double buffered?

                Thank you,
                Ryan

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              • Nico Weber
                ... The main editor window seems to be the default Cocoa text component which is double buffered (like everything in OS X (if you don t use legacy apis ;-)
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 27, 2007
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                  > Excellent work. Is the main editor window double buffered?

                  The main editor window seems to be the default Cocoa text component
                  which is double buffered (like everything in OS X (if you don't use
                  legacy apis ;-) )).


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                • Nico Weber
                  ... So I decided to delete MacVim and wait for the next version (too buggy for usage, and not enough time to hack on it), and couldn t delete it because it was
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 28, 2007
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                    > Memory usage is something that is on my TODO list; I expect there
                    > to be quite a bit of memory leaking at this point in time.

                    So I decided to delete MacVim and wait for the next version (too
                    buggy for usage, and not enough time to hack on it), and couldn't
                    delete it because it was still "in use" . Turns out there were still
                    two Vim processes running MacVim had started when I tested it a few
                    days ago. So you're leaking processes as well :-P

                    Bye,
                    Nico

                    ps: I don't like the name MacVim (mainly because the mac version of
                    vim is hosted at macvim.org, so the current version is already
                    associated with Mac Vim (at least for me). What about AquaVim? ;-)



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                  • björn
                    ... Haha...you do find all the nasty problems, but it is a _snapshot_ after all. ... I fixed this issue and some of the memory leaks last night, and will
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 29, 2007
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                      > Memory usage is something that is on my TODO list;  I expect there
                      > to be quite a bit of memory leaking at this point in time.

                      So I decided to delete MacVim and wait for the next version (too
                      buggy for usage, and not enough time to hack on it), and couldn't
                      delete it because it was still "in use" . Turns out there were still
                      two Vim processes running MacVim had started when I tested it a few
                      days ago. So you're leaking processes as well :-P

                      Haha...you do find all the nasty problems, but it is a _snapshot_ after all. :)
                      I fixed this issue and some of the memory leaks last night, and will probably upload a new snapshot tonight.

                      ps: I don't like the name MacVim (mainly because the mac version of
                      vim is hosted at macvim.org, so the current version is already
                      associated with Mac Vim (at least for me). What about AquaVim? ;-)

                      Coming up with a name is hard, but changing the name is a lot or work, and I have already set up the googlepage so I will not change it now.  If I get enough complaints about the name, I will change it before releasing a proper (non-snapshot) version.  However, I like the name and don't really mind if there is a macvim.org...I envision that a version of MacVim will be available there one day.  Once I iron out the serious bugs in MacVim and get most of the features in there I hope there will be no reason to use the old Carbon version anymore.  And if it never reach that stage, well, we'll see what happens.


                      /Björn

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