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Re: [ANN] MacVim.app Google code page

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  • björn
    ... Zooming turns out to be kind of hard to implement, so I am not surprised that you are experiencing problems...I will look into this. As for the toolbar
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 25, 2007
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      > I will be adding things as time goes on, but for now I would like some
      > people to test it out and focus on getting rid of all bugs that are
      > sure to be discovered.

      I nearly killed my system by clicking into the zoom button three
      times and then trying to resize the window by dragging the resize
      handle. That made the app use all processing power of my laptop, it
      was really hard to kill it. This is reproducible (hit cmd-opt-escape
      _before_ you try this!): Hit the zoom button once, then pull the
      resize handle up and wiggle the mouse until the status bar disappears
      (why is there a separate status bar anyways?)

      Anyways, the zoom button is broken too. There are drawing problems
      with the toolbar. And antialiasing doesn't work.

      Zooming turns out to be kind of hard to implement, so I am not surprised that you are experiencing problems...I will look into this.  As for the toolbar and antialiasing;  I am using Cocoa's NSToolbar for the toolbar and NSTextView for the text rendering...so I am not quite sure what you mean by 'drawing problems with the toolbar'.  As for antialiasing---this is handled by NSTextView, at the moment I don't know how to control it to be quite honest. ;)

      If you close a window by pressing the red button, it won't ask if you
      want to save your changes.

      Oops...forgot that one.  I only implemented this for when you quit so far (i.e. Cmd+Q or choosing Quit on the MacVim menu)!

      How is the multi-window feature implemented? If I type something in
      one window, and hit C-p in another window, the stuff from the first
      window doesn't show up in the completion list. Furthermore, every
      time I open a new window, memory usage goes up by a whole meg and
      doesn't go down if I close the window again. This feels more like a
      hack than a general solution...

      Memory usage is something that is on my TODO list;  I expect there to be quite a bit of memory leaking at this point in time.

      As for the multi-window feature: each window runs its own Vim process.  So each time you open a new window MacVim uses NSTask to execute MacVim.app/Contents/MacOS/Vim, which is just your regular Vim.  Then I've set it up so the GUI and Vim communicates via Mach ports.  Effectively, you are running several instances of Vim but it is all coordinated by the one GUI app.  Obviously, this is a solution that might not work that well in the end, but for me it has been good so far. 

      Integrating Cocoa and Vim is not easy---both Vim and Cocoa expects to be in charge of the main thread.  I have tried several solutions, including the "Vim way" i.e. letting Vim start up Cocoa and calling Cocoa to update every now and then.  For some reason that is lost to me at this point in time I could not get this to work very well.  However, I think Jiang is attempting this approach now (is that so Jiang?) and maybe he'll get that to work.  I know that there is a port of Emacs to Cocoa that does this, so it is surely possible.

      But all in all, this looks like this could become something I'll use
      a lot :-)

      Thanks!  I actually use MacVim for all my MacVim development, so it is my main editor at the moment. :)

      > So far MacVim has only been tested by me on my iBook G4, so I am not
      > even sure if it will run on an Intel (the snapshot is a univeral
      > binary though).  Before running the snapshot, please take the time to
      > gloss over the README that comes with it.

      It runs on an intel.

      That is good to know.

      You should talk with Jigod; as far as I understand he's working on
      something similar, so you should probably work together.

      We are discussing this matter presently.


      /Björn

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    • Jjgod Jiang
      Hi, ... As you can see from current vim-cocoa source code, I m trying a lower level approach, do the drawing by myself. It looks like a more straightforward
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 25, 2007
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        Hi,

        2007/7/25, björn <bjorn.winckler@...>:
        >
        > Zooming turns out to be kind of hard to implement, so I am not surprised
        > that you are experiencing problems...I will look into this. As for the
        > toolbar and antialiasing; I am using Cocoa's NSToolbar for the toolbar and
        > NSTextView for the text rendering...so I am not quite sure what you mean by
        > 'drawing problems with the toolbar'. As for antialiasing---this is handled
        > by NSTextView, at the moment I don't know how to control it to be quite
        > honest. ;)

        As you can see from current vim-cocoa source code, I'm trying a lower
        level approach, do the drawing by myself. It looks like a more
        straightforward approach than modify the buffer of a NSTextView, but
        it still has it's own limitations, the most important one is, regularly, you
        can only do the drawing in -drawRect:, because in other places, the
        code executing may not own the current screen, and should not draw
        at that time.

        There are two workaround I found to solve this problem, one of them
        is using an image whose size equals to the content view as a buffer,
        then draw this image (or part of it) on to screen in -drawRect:.

        Another solution is adding all drawing operations into a queue, then
        perform these operations one by one in -drawRect:.

        One of the advantages of doing all the drawings by myself is to have
        more control over the rendering effect, including font, character width,
        etc. Thus have better support for wide characters in turn.

        The bad thing is, I also have to optimize all the drawing by myself,
        so at present scrolling in vim-cocoa is not as smooth as Björn's
        MacVim.

        > Integrating Cocoa and Vim is not easy---both Vim and Cocoa expects to be in
        > charge of the main thread. I have tried several solutions, including the
        > "Vim way" i.e. letting Vim start up Cocoa and calling Cocoa to update every
        > now and then. For some reason that is lost to me at this point in time I
        > could not get this to work very well. However, I think Jiang is attempting
        > this approach now (is that so Jiang?) and maybe he'll get that to work. I
        > know that there is a port of Emacs to Cocoa that does this, so it is surely
        > possible.

        Yep, that's the most different place I found, my approach is to break
        -[NSApplication run] into fetching events and dispatching, it's
        integrated into Vim (just like the Carbon port does), and I have to
        maintain all the places that will cause the current run loop stop. But
        as far as I can see from Björn's code, it use a NSRunLoop, GUI and
        vim are loosely coupled by message port. But in vim-cocoa, almost
        all incoming calls from vim are performed directly.

        So, at present merging code seems to be a very difficult job, IMHO.

        - Jiang

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      • björn
        ... Yep, this queuing is what MacVim does too...actually _all_ incoming calls from Vim (i.e. gui_mch_* stuff) are put onto a queue, which is consequently
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 25, 2007
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          > Zooming turns out to be kind of hard to implement, so I am not surprised
          > that you are experiencing problems...I will look into this.  As for the
          > toolbar and antialiasing;  I am using Cocoa's NSToolbar for the toolbar and
          > NSTextView for the text rendering...so I am not quite sure what you mean by
          > 'drawing problems with the toolbar'.  As for antialiasing---this is handled
          > by NSTextView, at the moment I don't know how to control it to be quite
          > honest. ;)

          As you can see from current vim-cocoa source code, I'm trying a lower
          level approach, do the drawing by myself. It looks like a more
          straightforward approach than modify the buffer of a NSTextView, but
          it still has it's own limitations, the most important one is, regularly, you
          can only do the drawing in -drawRect:, because in other places, the
          code executing may not own the current screen, and should not draw
          at that time.

          There are two workaround I found to solve this problem, one of them
          is using an image whose size equals to the content view as a buffer,
          then draw this image (or part of it) on to screen in -drawRect:.

          Another solution is adding all drawing operations into a queue, then
          perform these operations one by one in -drawRect:.

          Yep, this queuing is what MacVim does too...actually _all_ incoming calls from Vim ( i.e. gui_mch_* stuff) are put onto a queue, which is consequently flushed when gui_mch_wait_for_chars() is called.  In this same method I also block on [NSRunloop run] waiting for mach port messages to arrive from MacVim.  (All this is in gui_macvim.m and MMBackend.m.)

          One of the advantages of doing all the drawings by myself is to have
          more control over the rendering effect, including font, character width,
          etc. Thus have better support for wide characters in turn.

          The bad thing is, I also have to optimize all the drawing by myself,
          so at present scrolling in vim-cocoa is not as smooth as Björn's
          MacVim.

          Yep, I ran into that problem too when I tried using the AppKit NSStringDrawing extensions.  The only way I can think of fixing this is to set up a permament NSLayoutManager (without NSTextView) and use that for drawing (this is what the AppKit drawing extensions do every time you call drawAtPoint: etc.).  However, that leads you directly to the same swamp that I am stuck in---you have to look into overriding NSTypesetter to get control over the layout of glyphs.  It doesn't seem impossible (check out the iTerm project...they do this), but I haven't had the time to investigate it yet.

          In any case, whenever one of us manages to do this properly, the other can benefit from it.  (I can easily adapt MacVim to use your drawing model and you could use mine by doing what I outlined above.)

          > Integrating Cocoa and Vim is not easy---both Vim and Cocoa expects to be in
          > charge of the main thread.  I have tried several solutions, including the
          > "Vim way" i.e. letting Vim start up Cocoa and calling Cocoa to update every
          > now and then.  For some reason that is lost to me at this point in time I
          > could not get this to work very well.  However, I think Jiang is attempting
          > this approach now (is that so Jiang?) and maybe he'll get that to work.  I
          > know that there is a port of Emacs to Cocoa that does this, so it is surely
          > possible.

          Yep, that's the most different place I found, my approach is to break
          -[NSApplication run] into fetching events and dispatching, it's
          integrated into Vim (just like the Carbon port does), and I have to
          maintain all the places that will cause the current run loop stop. But
          as far as I can see from Björn's code, it use a NSRunLoop, GUI and
          vim are loosely coupled by message port. But in vim-cocoa, almost
          all incoming calls from vim are performed directly.

          So, at present merging code seems to be a very difficult job, IMHO.

          You are right, of course.  However, MacVim has gone through several iterations, each with a new approach, so I know that it is possible to adapt it.  I will pursue the current approach until I realise it simply will not work (or be too slow...this is one of my biggest concerns).  Hopefully if more people try MacVim out I can get a more realistic estimate on how well it works.

          In any case, at the moment the best we can do is to benefit from the experiences of the other's attempt at implementing a certain feature and once we find a way that works well with Cocoa, we can perhaps integrate our two applications into one.  I am more than willing to do this as I know that I do not have that much time for working on this project and I think that the only way to get a working port is to have more than one person working on it.  That being said, I welcome all and any developers who want to join in on the MacVim effort.


          /Björn

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        • Bram Moolenaar
          I inderstand that there are different ways to use Cocoa for Vim. I hardly know anything about this GUI, thus I have no opinion about what would be a better
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 25, 2007
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            I inderstand that there are different ways to use Cocoa for Vim. I
            hardly know anything about this GUI, thus I have no opinion about what
            would be a better approach.

            I don't think we need to merge different versions at this point.
            Actually, it is good to try out different approaches and find out which
            one works best.

            This does require working on the difficult problems. I know it's
            tempting to work on things you know you can make work and make it look
            nice. But once these things get done you may find out that there is
            some basic problem that can't be solved without changing lots of things
            again. Thus it's important to first figure out the things that you
            don't know how to fix. E.g., the resizing, key focus problems, event
            handling and things like that.

            It's exciting to see substantial progress in the Mac version!

            --
            hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict:
            38. You wake up at 3 a.m. to go to the bathroom and stop and check your e-mail
            on the way back to bed.

            /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
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          • Jeremy Conlin
            ... I just wanted to say it looks very nice! I haven t downloaded it yet, but it looks great from the screenshots. I can t wait to try it out. Jeremy
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 25, 2007
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              On 7/25/07, bjorn.winckler <bjorn.winckler@...> wrote:
              >
              > I am happy to announce MacVim.app - a new port of Vim to Mac OS X.
              > This is a project I have been working on for almost a year now and it
              > is finally in such a state that I believe it might be usable for
              > others than just me.
              >
              > The goal of MacVim is to look better and integrate more seamlessly
              > with the Mac than the existing Carbon port of Vim. Its main features
              > are:
              >
              > - Multiple windows (Exposé works with the MacVim windows)
              > - Safari-style tabs (using PSMTabBarControl from Positive Spin Media)
              > - Toolbar
              >
              > I will be adding things as time goes on, but for now I would like some
              > people to test it out and focus on getting rid of all bugs that are
              > sure to be discovered.
              >
              > Go to http://code.google.com/p/macvim/ to download the latest
              > snapshot. Source code is also available to download, but please note
              > that it only works to build the GUI and not Vim itself at the moment.
              > Build instructions are available on the project page.
              >
              > So far MacVim has only been tested by me on my iBook G4, so I am not
              > even sure if it will run on an Intel (the snapshot is a univeral
              > binary though). Before running the snapshot, please take the time to
              > gloss over the README that comes with it.
              >
              >
              > Have fun with MacVim and please let me know if (how) it works for you,
              > Björn Winckler
              >
              >
              > >
              >

              I just wanted to say it looks very nice! I haven't downloaded it yet,
              but it looks great from the screenshots. I can't wait to try it out.

              Jeremy

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            • Niklas Lindström
              Hi Björn! I as well find this very promising; great work! I hope that you can continue this, and that your and Jiangs efforts (which I also applaud) will be
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 26, 2007
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                Hi Björn!

                I as well find this very promising; great work! I hope that you can
                continue this, and that your and Jiangs efforts (which I also applaud)
                will be possible to coordinate/integrate in some way.

                > As for the multi-window feature: each window runs its own Vim process. So
                > each time you open a new window MacVim uses NSTask to execute
                > MacVim.app/Contents/MacOS/Vim, which is just your regular Vim. Then I've
                > set it up so the GUI and Vim communicates via Mach ports. Effectively, you
                > are running several instances of Vim but it is all coordinated by the one
                > GUI app. Obviously, this is a solution that might not work that well in the
                > end, but for me it has been good so far.

                I can only speak for myself, but I actually find this very good. As
                long as gvim itself doesn't support multiple GUI windows, I think that
                this is more sound. And for that matter, I wouldn't need multiple
                windows; I use multiple vim windows and tabs combined, and I feel this
                is perfect. I often have several vim instances running with different
                sessions and settings altogether. Your solution makes it all work much
                better in the OS X environment without changing these premises.

                As for tabs. Your solution looks very good indeed, and I like that
                they are draggable. I really like Nico Webers' slide drawer
                implementation *a lot* as well though. If at all possible, how about
                something along the lines of a 'tabmode' option to control this? I
                guess that's not in the near future, but just to suggest it.

                Again, thanks for this!

                Best regards,
                Niklas

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              • björn
                ... This might not come as a big surprise...but this is exactly how I want Vim to behave as well, and I dislike the idea of having several instances of the
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 26, 2007
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                  > As for the multi-window feature: each window runs its own Vim process.  So
                  > each time you open a new window MacVim uses NSTask to execute
                  > MacVim.app/Contents/MacOS/Vim, which is just your regular Vim.  Then I've
                  > set it up so the GUI and Vim communicates via Mach ports.  Effectively, you
                  > are running several instances of Vim but it is all coordinated by the one
                  > GUI app.  Obviously, this is a solution that might not work that well in the
                  > end, but for me it has been good so far.

                  I can only speak for myself, but I actually find this very good. As
                  long as gvim itself doesn't support multiple GUI windows, I think that
                  this is more sound. And for that matter, I wouldn't need multiple
                  windows; I use multiple vim windows and tabs combined, and I feel this
                  is perfect. I often have several vim instances running with different
                  sessions and settings altogether. Your solution makes it all work much
                  better in the OS X environment without changing these premises.

                  This might not come as a big surprise...but this is exactly how I want Vim to behave as well, and I dislike the idea of having several instances of the same app running with several copies of the same icon cluttering up the dock.  Apparently, this is the only 'unique' feature of MacVim at the moment, and I am anxious to see how it will work out in the long run.  I'm glad you like it.

                  As for tabs. Your solution looks very good indeed, and I like that
                  they are draggable. I really like Nico Webers' slide drawer
                  implementation *a lot* as well though. If at all possible, how about
                  something along the lines of a 'tabmode' option to control this? I
                  guess that's not in the near future, but just to suggest it.

                  Thank John Pannell at positivespinmedia.com for the tabs...I only used his framework.  :)

                  As for Nico's slide drawer;  I have not used this myself, but I can see how it makes sense in that you'll be able to see a lot more "tabs" at once.  It would be easy enough to abstract the tab code slightly to allow the user to choose how tabs are rendered, but yeah, not right now.


                  /Björn


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                • Nico Weber
                  ... Of course it s right to have only one instance of vim. I just hoped that you had added support for several top level gui frames ( windows how you normally
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 26, 2007
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                    > This might not come as a big surprise...but this is exactly how I
                    > want Vim to behave as well, and I dislike the idea of having
                    > several instances of the same app running with several copies of
                    > the same icon cluttering up the dock. Apparently, this is the only
                    > 'unique' feature of MacVim at the moment, and I am anxious to see
                    > how it will work out in the long run. I'm glad you like it.

                    Of course it's right to have only one instance of vim. I just hoped
                    that you had added support for several top level gui frames
                    ("windows" how you normally call them, but that term is taken in vim
                    already) to core vim -- that's something I've been doing some (very
                    little) work on (needs less memory, completion works accross windows,
                    etc.. Perhaps I can finish it one day. Until then, your way of doing
                    this is very nice.
                    >
                    > As for Nico's slide drawer; I have not used this myself, but I can
                    > see how it makes sense in that you'll be able to see a lot more
                    > "tabs" at once. It would be easy enough to abstract the tab code
                    > slightly to allow the user to choose how tabs are rendered, but
                    > yeah, not right now.

                    Maybe have a "taboverflow" behaviour that switches from the tabs-at-
                    the-top to drawer-style tabs if more than X tabs are open. But not
                    right now :-)

                    Nico



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                  • Bram Moolenaar
                    ... I think we can discuss about the tab label implementation forever. It s a personal choice. Would it be possible to make this an option somehow? Or would
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 26, 2007
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                      Niklas Linström wrote:

                      > As for tabs. Your solution looks very good indeed, and I like that
                      > they are draggable. I really like Nico Webers' slide drawer
                      > implementation *a lot* as well though. If at all possible, how about
                      > something along the lines of a 'tabmode' option to control this? I
                      > guess that's not in the near future, but just to suggest it.

                      I think we can discuss about the tab label implementation forever. It's
                      a personal choice. Would it be possible to make this an option somehow?
                      Or would that be too complicated, implementing both. It could be an
                      option that is only used the moment the GUI is started and can't be
                      changed later.

                      --
                      You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be
                      misquoted, then used against you.

                      /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
                      /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
                      \\\ download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org ///
                      \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org ///

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                    • Nico Weber
                      ... IMO we should have a taboverflow option with the values nodrawer , draweronoverflow and alwaysdrawer (well, or similar), that controls which tab
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 26, 2007
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                        > I think we can discuss about the tab label implementation forever.
                        > It's
                        > a personal choice. Would it be possible to make this an option
                        > somehow?
                        > Or would that be too complicated, implementing both. It could be an
                        > option that is only used the moment the GUI is started and can't be
                        > changed later.

                        IMO we should have a "taboverflow" option with the values "nodrawer",
                        "draweronoverflow" and "alwaysdrawer" (well, or similar), that
                        controls which tab style is used based on how many tabs are currently
                        open. This should be changable at runtime.

                        But as Bjorn said, not now. I guess I'd have to reimplement the
                        drawer in Cocoa anyways.

                        Nico


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                      • björn
                        ... I would say having both tabs & drawer is quite feasible, but to make it nice would require some work. Adding a hack that will let you choose between the
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 27, 2007
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                          > > I think we can discuss about the tab label implementation forever.
                          > > It's
                          > > a personal choice. Would it be possible to make this an option
                          > > somehow?
                          > > Or would that be too complicated, implementing both. It could be an
                          > > option that is only used the moment the GUI is started and can't be
                          > > changed later.
                          >
                          > IMO we should have a "taboverflow" option with the values "nodrawer",
                          > "draweronoverflow" and "alwaysdrawer" (well, or similar), that
                          > controls which tab style is used based on how many tabs are currently
                          > open. This should be changable at runtime.

                          I would say having both tabs & drawer is quite feasible, but to make
                          it "nice" would require some work. Adding a hack that will let you
                          choose between the two would not take me that long (granted that Nico
                          would help me transfer his existing code to MacVim), but do you judge
                          this feature important enough for such "dirty" work at the moment?

                          The "right" way (this is a guess...I haven't thought about it that
                          much) would be to make Nico's drawer a delegate of the NSTabView (this
                          is what PSMTabBarControl does) and handle things from there. This
                          would require almost no change to the MacVim code (!) but I think it
                          would be a bit of an effort. If you have the time and inclination
                          Nico, then check out PSMTabBarControl (it's under MacVim/
                          PSMTabBarControl) and see if you can figure out how it deals with the
                          NSTabView delegate methods. (Note that there is always an 'invisible'
                          NSTabView present which holds all the NSTabViewItems, PSMTabBarControl
                          simply looks at this to decide which tabs to draw.) With this
                          approach it would be simple to add options to let you choose if/how/
                          when you want the drawer or the tabs---just change whether
                          PSMTabBarControl or the drawer is the delegate of the NSTabView, and
                          hide one or the other (but it would be unfeasible to have _both_
                          visible at the same time).

                          There are some much more pressing user interface issues I would rather
                          focus my time on at the moment though (I will start a discussion on
                          this soon), so unless people find this to be a make or break issue, I
                          will let it rest until further notice.


                          /Björn


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                        • Ryan Phillips
                          ... Bjorn, Excellent work. Is the main editor window double buffered? Thank you, Ryan --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jul 27, 2007
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                            "bjorn.winckler" <bjorn.winckler@...> said:
                            >
                            > I am happy to announce MacVim.app - a new port of Vim to Mac OS X.
                            > This is a project I have been working on for almost a year now and it
                            > is finally in such a state that I believe it might be usable for
                            > others than just me.
                            >
                            > The goal of MacVim is to look better and integrate more seamlessly
                            > with the Mac than the existing Carbon port of Vim. Its main features
                            > are:
                            >
                            > - Multiple windows (Expos? works with the MacVim windows)
                            > - Safari-style tabs (using PSMTabBarControl from Positive Spin Media)
                            > - Toolbar
                            >
                            > I will be adding things as time goes on, but for now I would like some
                            > people to test it out and focus on getting rid of all bugs that are
                            > sure to be discovered.
                            >

                            Bjorn,

                            Excellent work. Is the main editor window double buffered?

                            Thank you,
                            Ryan

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                          • Nico Weber
                            ... The main editor window seems to be the default Cocoa text component which is double buffered (like everything in OS X (if you don t use legacy apis ;-)
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jul 27, 2007
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                              > Excellent work. Is the main editor window double buffered?

                              The main editor window seems to be the default Cocoa text component
                              which is double buffered (like everything in OS X (if you don't use
                              legacy apis ;-) )).


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                            • Nico Weber
                              ... So I decided to delete MacVim and wait for the next version (too buggy for usage, and not enough time to hack on it), and couldn t delete it because it was
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jul 28, 2007
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                                > Memory usage is something that is on my TODO list; I expect there
                                > to be quite a bit of memory leaking at this point in time.

                                So I decided to delete MacVim and wait for the next version (too
                                buggy for usage, and not enough time to hack on it), and couldn't
                                delete it because it was still "in use" . Turns out there were still
                                two Vim processes running MacVim had started when I tested it a few
                                days ago. So you're leaking processes as well :-P

                                Bye,
                                Nico

                                ps: I don't like the name MacVim (mainly because the mac version of
                                vim is hosted at macvim.org, so the current version is already
                                associated with Mac Vim (at least for me). What about AquaVim? ;-)



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                              • björn
                                ... Haha...you do find all the nasty problems, but it is a _snapshot_ after all. ... I fixed this issue and some of the memory leaks last night, and will
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jul 29, 2007
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                                  > Memory usage is something that is on my TODO list;  I expect there
                                  > to be quite a bit of memory leaking at this point in time.

                                  So I decided to delete MacVim and wait for the next version (too
                                  buggy for usage, and not enough time to hack on it), and couldn't
                                  delete it because it was still "in use" . Turns out there were still
                                  two Vim processes running MacVim had started when I tested it a few
                                  days ago. So you're leaking processes as well :-P

                                  Haha...you do find all the nasty problems, but it is a _snapshot_ after all. :)
                                  I fixed this issue and some of the memory leaks last night, and will probably upload a new snapshot tonight.

                                  ps: I don't like the name MacVim (mainly because the mac version of
                                  vim is hosted at macvim.org, so the current version is already
                                  associated with Mac Vim (at least for me). What about AquaVim? ;-)

                                  Coming up with a name is hard, but changing the name is a lot or work, and I have already set up the googlepage so I will not change it now.  If I get enough complaints about the name, I will change it before releasing a proper (non-snapshot) version.  However, I like the name and don't really mind if there is a macvim.org...I envision that a version of MacVim will be available there one day.  Once I iron out the serious bugs in MacVim and get most of the features in there I hope there will be no reason to use the old Carbon version anymore.  And if it never reach that stage, well, we'll see what happens.


                                  /Björn

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