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Re: Practical development of Mac vim

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  • Ben Fowler
    ... I accept correction on that (English children are nowadays taught that Father Christmas lives in Lapland (because of the reindeer)). You are right about
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 2, 2001
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      >Santa Claus comes from the North Pole, it's Saint Niklas who comes from Turkey
      >(although many people in Holland think he's from Spain, but I've seen his
      >place in Turkey).

      I accept correction on that (English children are nowadays taught
      that Father Christmas lives in Lapland (because of the reindeer)).
      You are right about Saint Niklas. That would be Myra.

      < URL:http://www.religioustolerance.org/santa.htm >
      < URL:http://www.kuuf.org/Sermons/real%20truth%20about%20Santa%20Claus.htm >

      Of course in Holland there is Sinte Klass, whose legend is slightly
      distinct.

      > > 4. I have copied the vim 6.0t sources into my Mac tree, and the
      > > project compiles, IIRC, without a hitch; but it does not run smoothly
      > > because it appears not to grok the explorer.vim plugin, but the
      > > error messages (basically that a backslash was found where it was not
      > > allowed does not appear to be Mac specific.
      >
      >The explorer might encounter a few problems, but it does work on Unix and
      >Windows. Making it work on the Mac may require some effort. Especially for
      >the file name handling. Please communicate with the explorer.vim maintainer
      >about this.

      Yes it works on linux (i386) but not on the Mac, perhaps it is a line
      endings issue.

      Ben.
    • Dany St-Amant
      Hi Ben, ... Welcome to the small MacVim community... But you should have encountered a few compile error... I didn t got time to ship my deltas to Bram...
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 3, 2001
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        Hi Ben,

        on 31/01/01 14:58, Ben Fowler at ben@... wrote:
        > It would be nice to report that Santa Claus, the famous gentleman
        > from Turkey brought me a copy of CodeWarrior 6
        > < URL:http://www.metrowerks.com/ > (new series), but
        > this would not be at all true; I was however able to use CW 6
        > for a few days over the Christmas break & have taken the opportunity to
        > make my own executable of Mac vim.

        Welcome to the small MacVim community...

        But you should have encountered a few compile error... I didn't got time to
        ship my deltas to Bram... anyway
        Unless Alex already did so or CW 6 libraries are
        better than CW 5

        > This was the fruit of the file, os_mac.c, that Axel Kielhorn
        > < URL:http://www-public.tu-bs.de:8080/~i0080108/macvim.html >
        > kindly sent me, though it might be worth
        > noting that the file of that name in the main distribution is virtually
        > (if not absolutely) identical
        >
        > I am bursting to ask several questions:
        >
        > 1. How many people actually possess the vis, vim or vigor
        > < URL:http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?db=*&term=vim > to
        > compile either a 68k or PPC executable for themselves?
        >
        > It may as few as 3 or 4; in which case it might be considered
        > helpful if I wrote up what I had to do create my edition. Let me stress
        > that it was a little time consuming, but quite straightforward. The only
        > problems in the main sources were that I found that in some places
        > vim uses unsigned chars for C strings where I expected plain chars,
        > exempli gratia: char *getenv(const char *name); and one of the files
        > needed an extra header for something trivial like chdir (probably fixable
        > with a minor edit to os_mac.h or vim.h).
        >
        > 2. I am have difficulty with Mac line endings in that some files which
        > the standard executable can read, mine cannot. For this reason alone,
        > I am reluctant to post my work, as it might be confusing.

        Are your in VI compatible mode? The option.h from 6.0r is causing the Vi
        compatible mode to misbehave, at line 60 the code should look like:

        # ifdef USE_CR
        # define DFLT_FF "mac"
        # define DFLT_FFS_VIM "mac,unix,dos"
        # define DFLT_FFS_VI "mac,unix,dos"
        # define DFLT_TEXTAUTO TRUE
        # else
        # define DFLT_FF "unix"
        # define DFLT_FFS_VIM "unix,dos"
        # define DFLT_FFS_VI ""
        # define DFLT_TEXTAUTO FALSE
        # endif


        >
        > 3. What objectives on the to do list achievable for the non expert as
        > I am? Here are some possibilities:
        >
        > a) Fix up an MPW makefile to avoid the dependence on CodeWarrior

        Good idea

        > b) Establish a 'prefs' file (which should contain a pointer to the
        > runtime folder, allowing the runtime folder, or pouch, to be placed
        > anywhere on the system

        Currently the runtime is found the same ways as UNIX or Windows, but I was
        thinking of adding in the future the following possible location:

        -the Application Support folder (if available)
        -the Preferences folder
        -the Documents folder

        I think the MacOS port should not differ to much from the other port. So I
        don't think we should create new files to find the location of the runtime.

        > c) Double clicking on a prefs or settings file should act as 'vim -u'
        > and byp[ass other initialisation.

        I totally agree on that one. We just need to find the perfect trick for
        this:

        a) use the Stationary file attribute as a "executable" attribute
        b) user a different file type than 'TEXT'

        The option a) whould work fine as long as we only execute file ending by
        .vim


        > d) I think that adopting Powerplant (proprietary)
        > < URL:http://www.metrowerks.com/desktop/mactools/powerplant/ >
        > would be a strange move,
        > but there might be some purpose in using WASTE
        > < URL:http://www.metrowerks.com/desktop/mactools/powerplant/ >.

        I still think the best is to stick with the Vim core code.

        > e) We could have a scheme for running plugins such as BBEdit
        > plugins < URL:http://www.barebones.com/support/bbedit/bbedit-plugins.html >
        > or (much more work?) MPW tools,
        > < URL:http://devworld.apple.com/tools/mpw-tools/books.html#ToolServer > but
        > perhaps also
        > useful...

        Could be cool, but in this concept the I think the most important is to get
        the interaction with the compiler to work perfectly. Vim currently have
        somewhat of a support as an external editor for CodeWarrior, but we still
        cannot use the quickfix, the make.

        I admit that to attact BBEdit user...

        > f) See whether Mindvision <
        > URL:http://www.mindvision.com/pricing/shareware.asp >
        > would let us use Installer Vise, as is the case
        > with MacPerl, <
        > URL:http://devworld.apple.com/tools/mpw-tools/books.html#ToolServer >
        > another open source cross platform project that
        > predates Linux.

        I emailed them a year or two ago, and it seemed to be O.K at the time. If
        the runtime file are to be "tossed" outside the main application folder,
        it's to be looked at more deeply. This would be also needed if Vim in its
        carbonization (see below) require some librart to be included to the
        distribution.


        Another point of the Mac TODO:

        g) Allow a CARBON compile. Currently the source use some non-Carbon calls,
        which are needed to support older version of MacOS. For some reason Vim seem
        unable to compile without SIOUX which is not CARBONized (even in CW 6, i
        think)


        > 4. I have copied the vim 6.0t sources into my Mac tree, and the
        > project compiles, IIRC, without a hitch; but it does not run smoothly
        > because it appears not to grok the explorer.vim plugin, but the
        > error messages (basically that a backslash was found where it was not
        > allowed does not appear to be Mac specific.

        Didn't look at that yet, but the previous versions of explorer.vim or its
        precursors were using to many shell command to even take a look at the
        issue.

        On the backslash note, syntax.vim (from version 6.0r) need a tiny change at
        line 19. Strangely enough, the / to : doesn't seem required just a few line
        above... (Man, I really need to cleanuo the filename convcersion code...)

        " Load the Syntax autocommands and set the default methods for highlighting.
        if has("mac")
        runtime syntax:synload.vim
        else
        runtime syntax/synload.vim
        endif

        > 5. Is there anyone using MacVIm for serious work willing to
        > comment on how we are getting on?

        I'm just using MacVim when working on MacVim ;) They don't let me use Mac at
        work :(

        > Please don't think I am being ungrateful, asking for more and more
        > information. Effectively I would like to know what I should be doing next,
        > and what you would like to see from me.

        No problem, the guy who brought back MacVim somewhat in sync with the rest
        of the world should maintain his WebSite more appropriately. Shame on me,
        for such bad house keeping...

        Dany

        http://www3.sympatico.ca/dany.stamant/vim
      • Bram Moolenaar
        Dany - ... I ll include this. ... The explorer.vim now only uses Vim functions, so that it is better portable. We are still working on this, we only recently
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 4, 2001
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          Dany -

          > Are your in VI compatible mode? The option.h from 6.0r is causing the Vi
          > compatible mode to misbehave, at line 60 the code should look like:
          >
          > # ifdef USE_CR
          > # define DFLT_FF "mac"
          > # define DFLT_FFS_VIM "mac,unix,dos"
          > # define DFLT_FFS_VI "mac,unix,dos"
          > # define DFLT_TEXTAUTO TRUE
          > # else
          > # define DFLT_FF "unix"
          > # define DFLT_FFS_VIM "unix,dos"
          > # define DFLT_FFS_VI ""
          > # define DFLT_TEXTAUTO FALSE
          > # endif

          I'll include this.

          > Didn't look at that yet, but the previous versions of explorer.vim or its
          > precursors were using to many shell command to even take a look at the
          > issue.

          The explorer.vim now only uses Vim functions, so that it is better portable.
          We are still working on this, we only recently made it work on MS-Windows.

          > On the backslash note, syntax.vim (from version 6.0r) need a tiny change at
          > line 19. Strangely enough, the / to : doesn't seem required just a few line
          > above... (Man, I really need to cleanuo the filename convcersion code...)
          >
          > " Load the Syntax autocommands and set the default methods for highlighting.
          > if has("mac")
          > runtime syntax:synload.vim
          > else
          > runtime syntax/synload.vim
          > endif

          This construction is used in many places. We wouldn't want to put
          'if has("mac")' in all scripts that use ":runtime". Please find out how to
          solve this in the source code.

          --
          hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict:
          153. You find yourself staring at your "inbox" waiting for new e-mail
          to arrive.

          /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.moolenaar.net \\\
          ((( Creator of Vim - http://www.vim.org -- ftp://ftp.vim.org/pub/vim )))
          \\\ Help me helping AIDS orphans in Uganda - http://iccf-holland.org ///
        • Eugene Lee
          ... I used to use MacVim alot. But I m in that bleeding-edge power-user boat that s using Mac OS X now, and got Vim 5.7 to compile way back. Just my two
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 6, 2001
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            On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 06:57:10AM +0100, Axel Kielhorn wrote:
            : Vim%Blue.Wizzard@... (Axel Kielhorn) asked:
            : >
            : > 5. Is there anyone using MacVIm for serious work willing to
            : > comment on how we are getting on?
            :
            : There are about 20 known users, I don't think most of them read this
            : list.

            I used to use MacVim alot. But I'm in that bleeding-edge power-user
            boat that's using Mac OS X now, and got Vim 5.7 to compile way back.

            Just my two cents.


            --
            Eugene Lee
            eugene@...
          • Benji Fisher
            ... Here are mine. I use W95 at home, Mac in the office, vim and latex on both. Vim works great on the Mac. I just wish I knew how to get it to talk to
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 6, 2001
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              Eugene Lee wrote:
              >
              > On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 06:57:10AM +0100, Axel Kielhorn wrote:
              > : Vim%Blue.Wizzard@... (Axel Kielhorn) asked:
              > : >
              > : > 5. Is there anyone using MacVIm for serious work willing to
              > : > comment on how we are getting on?
              > :
              > : There are about 20 known users, I don't think most of them read this
              > : list.
              >
              > I used to use MacVim alot. But I'm in that bleeding-edge power-user
              > boat that's using Mac OS X now, and got Vim 5.7 to compile way back.
              >
              > Just my two cents.

              Here are mine. I use W95 at home, Mac in the office, vim and latex
              on both. Vim works great on the Mac. I just wish I knew how to get it to
              talk to OzTeX and Fetch. Is there any chance of getting MacVim to
              communicate with other programs "the apple way"?

              BTW, thanks to all of you for making this work.

              --Benji Fisher
            • david craig
              ... Known is the key word. I probably know 20 myself who use MacVIM with some regularity. But I m the only one who reads the list :-) (I m a bad citizen,
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 6, 2001
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                On Wed, 7 Feb 2001, Axel Kielhorn wrote:
                > There are about 20 known users, I don't think most of them read this

                "Known" is the key word. I probably know 20 myself who use MacVIM with
                some regularity. But I'm the only one who reads the list :-) (I'm a
                bad citizen, though -- I don't really have the time to beta-test.)

                David Craig


                <http://cda.mrs.umn.edu/~dac/>
              • Christopher C. Stone
                ... Greetings, I really love MacVIM; unfortunately I was having problems with it a version or two back and haven t yet returned to it since updating to MacOS
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 6, 2001
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                  At 02/07/2001 06:57 +0100, Axel Kielhorn wrought:

                  > > 5. Is there anyone using MacVIm for serious work willing to
                  > > comment on how we are getting on?
                  >
                  > There are about 20 known users, I don't think most of them read this
                  > list.

                  Greetings,

                  I really love MacVIM; unfortunately I was having problems with it a version or two back and haven't yet returned to it since updating to MacOS 9.1. (Downloading as I write.)

                  I really want to see some basic AppleScript support for interapplication communication, buffer in/out without having to resort to the Mac Clipboard, setting window bounds, and driving VIM more directly via a utility such as OneClick than by just simulating keystrokes.

                  It seems to be running stably omm, so I can give to some serious attention again.


                  Best Regards,

                  Christopher Stone
                  ______________________________
                  StoneWorks Computer Consulting
                  ccstone@...
                • vim-mac-egroups-wrapper@vim.org
                  ... Since MPW is free now, there is no limitation. ... Well, post it for review. ... Vim 6.0t should be compilable with MPW. (With some minor problems. Bram
                  Message 8 of 15 , Feb 6, 2001
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                    > 1. How many people actually possess the vis, vim or vigor
                    > < URL:http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?db=*&term=vim > to
                    > compile either a 68k or PPC executable for themselves?

                    Since MPW is free now, there is no limitation.

                    > 2. I am have difficulty with Mac line endings in that some files which
                    > the standard executable can read, mine cannot. For this reason alone,
                    > I am reluctant to post my work, as it might be confusing.

                    Well, post it for review.

                    > 3. What objectives on the to do list achievable for the non expert as
                    > I am? Here are some possibilities:
                    >
                    > a) Fix up an MPW makefile to avoid the dependence on CodeWarrior

                    Vim 6.0t should be compilable with MPW. (With some minor problems. Bram
                    already has the patch.)

                    > b) Establish a 'prefs' file (which should contain a pointer to the
                    > runtime folder, allowing the runtime folder, or pouch, to be placed
                    > anywhere on the system

                    I don't see this as a big advantage. Especially since sripts from other
                    platforms will look at the standard locations.

                    > c) Double clicking on a prefs or settings file should act as 'vim -u'
                    > and bypass other initialisation.

                    This could indeed help.

                    > e) We could have a scheme for running plugins such as BBEdit plugins <
                    > URL:http://www.barebones.com/support/bbedit/bbedit-plugins.html > or (much
                    > more work?) MPW tools, <
                    > URL:http://devworld.apple.com/tools/mpw-tools/books.html#ToolServer > but
                    > perhaps also useful...

                    Using MPW tools would be a great plus. I would love to call "sort" or
                    some other tools on my Mac.

                    > f) See whether Mindvision <
                    > URL:http://www.mindvision.com/pricing/shareware.asp > would let us use
                    > Installer Vise, as is the case with MacPerl, <
                    > URL:http://devworld.apple.com/tools/mpw-tools/books.html#ToolServer >
                    > another open source cross platform project that predates Linux.

                    There is nothing to install. Unpack the archive and doubleclick the
                    application.

                    > 4. I have copied the vim 6.0t sources into my Mac tree, and the
                    > project compiles, IIRC, without a hitch; but it does not run smoothly
                    > because it appears not to grok the explorer.vim plugin, but the
                    > error messages (basically that a backslash was found where it was not
                    > allowed does not appear to be Mac specific.

                    Maybe a backslash in the pathname problem? Vim doesn't like that.

                    > 5. Is there anyone using MacVIm for serious work willing to
                    > comment on how we are getting on?

                    There are about 20 known users, I don't think most of them read this
                    list.

                    Axel
                    --
                    There is nothing left to try
                    There is nothing left to choose
                    There is no greater power
                    Than the power of VI
                  • vim-mac-egroups-wrapper@vim.org
                    ... In CW 2 I still miss access and in MPW I have a linking problem with missing .setenv symbol. I send some patches to Bram, most of it is in 6.0t. These
                    Message 9 of 15 , Feb 6, 2001
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                      > But you should have encountered a few compile error... I didn't got time to
                      > ship my deltas to Bram... anyway
                      > Unless Alex already did so or CW 6 libraries are
                      > better than CW 5

                      In CW 2 I still miss "access" and in MPW I have a linking problem with
                      missing .setenv symbol.

                      I send some patches to Bram, most of it is in 6.0t. These two are
                      remainig.

                      > > a) Fix up an MPW makefile to avoid the dependence on CodeWarrior
                      >
                      > Good idea

                      Already send to Bram, but the instructions are still missing. I will
                      write them as soon as I get Vim compiled with MPW.

                      > Another point of the Mac TODO:
                      >
                      > g) Allow a CARBON compile. Currently the source use some non-Carbon calls,
                      > which are needed to support older version of MacOS. For some reason Vim seem
                      > unable to compile without SIOUX which is not CARBONized (even in CW 6, i
                      > think)

                      I expect some rainy weekends soon:-)

                      > On the backslash note, syntax.vim (from version 6.0r) need a tiny change at
                      > line 19. Strangely enough, the / to : doesn't seem required just a few line
                      > above... (Man, I really need to cleanup the filename convcersion code...)
                      >
                      > " Load the Syntax autocommands and set the default methods for highlighting.
                      > if has("mac")
                      > runtime syntax:synload.vim
                      > else
                      > runtime syntax/synload.vim
                      > endif

                      > No problem, the guy who brought back MacVim somewhat in sync with the rest
                      > of the world should maintain his WebSite more appropriately. Shame on me,
                      > for such bad house keeping...

                      I no longer own my website. I left school and had to return my account.
                      I already have a new address but nothing is there. I really should
                      change that.

                      Axel

                      --
                      There is nothing left to try
                      There is nothing left to choose
                      There is no greater power
                      Than the power of VI
                    • Nils Kassube
                      ... There are about five to ten downloads per week from http://www.kassube.de/mirrors/macvim/ according to my log files. Cheers, Nils
                      Message 10 of 15 , Feb 7, 2001
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                        Axel Kielhorn wrote:

                        > There are about 20 known users, I don't think most of them read this
                        > list.

                        There are about five to ten downloads per week from

                        http://www.kassube.de/mirrors/macvim/

                        according to my log files.

                        Cheers,
                        Nils
                      • Nils Kassube
                        ... There are about five to ten downloads per week from http://www.kassube.de/mirrors/macvim/ according to my log files. Cheers, Nils
                        Message 11 of 15 , Feb 7, 2001
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                          Axel Kielhorn wrote:

                          > There are about 20 known users, I don't think most of them read this
                          > list.

                          There are about five to ten downloads per week from

                          http://www.kassube.de/mirrors/macvim/

                          according to my log files.

                          Cheers,
                          Nils
                        • vim-mac-egroups-wrapper@vim.org
                          ... I wanted to include this into my 5.7 tree but had to change it back to # ifdef USE_CR # define FF_DFLT mac # define FFS_DFLT mac,unix,dos
                          Message 12 of 15 , Feb 11, 2001
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                            > Are you in VI compatible mode? The option.h from 6.0r is causing the Vi
                            > compatible mode to misbehave, at line 60 the code should look like:
                            >
                            > # ifdef USE_CR
                            > # define DFLT_FF "mac"
                            > # define DFLT_FFS_VIM "mac,unix,dos"
                            > # define DFLT_FFS_VI "mac,unix,dos"
                            > # define DFLT_TEXTAUTO TRUE
                            > # else
                            > # define DFLT_FF "unix"
                            > # define DFLT_FFS_VIM "unix,dos"
                            > # define DFLT_FFS_VI ""
                            > # define DFLT_TEXTAUTO FALSE
                            > # endif

                            I wanted to include this into my 5.7 tree but had to change it back to

                            # ifdef USE_CR
                            # define FF_DFLT "mac"
                            # define FFS_DFLT "mac,unix,dos"
                            # define FFS_VI ""
                            # define TA_DFLT TRUE
                            # else
                            # define FF_DFLT "unix"
                            # define FFS_DFLT "unix,dos"
                            # define FFS_VI ""
                            # define TA_DFLT FALSE
                            # endif

                            Otherwise Vim wouldn't start with a vimrc in DOS-format.
                            But now it can't read UNIX and DOS files in vi-compatible mode.
                            Could you check if the same is true for 6.0? I can't compile it ATM.

                            Axel

                            --
                            There is nothing left to try
                            There is nothing left to choose
                            There is no greater power
                            Than the power of VI
                          • vim-mac-egroups-wrapper@vim.org
                            ... If you want to be really bleeding edge, you may join the 6.0 development:-) Axel -- There is nothing left to try There is nothing left to choose There is
                            Message 13 of 15 , Feb 11, 2001
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                              Eugene Lee wrote:

                              > I used to use MacVim alot. But I'm in that bleeding-edge power-user
                              > boat that's using Mac OS X now, and got Vim 5.7 to compile way back.

                              If you want to be really bleeding edge, you may join the 6.0
                              development:-)

                              Axel
                              --
                              There is nothing left to try
                              There is nothing left to choose
                              There is no greater power
                              Than the power of VI
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