Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Does MacVim require separate installation of vim?

Expand Messages
  • Eric Weir
    Somehow, when I was getting started with vim, I ended up with a vim installation to ~ and a MacVim installation in Applications. Before I started using
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 13, 2012
    • 0 Attachment

      Somehow, when I was getting started with vim, I ended up with a vim installation to ~\ and a MacVim installation in \Applications. Before I started using vim-addon-manager I installed plugins to the vim installation. 

      If I'm using MacVim, do I actually need the separate vim installation? If not, and if I had reason to do a manual installation of a plugin---not very likely, but I'm curious---where would I put it?

      Thanks,
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Eric Weir

      "With an ounce of willingness, everything can change."

      - Kim



      --
      You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
      Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to.
      For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
    • Tim Gray
      ... Do you have a Vim installation in ~/, or do you have your .vimrc and related files in ~/? They are two separate thigns. By the former, I mean the actual
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 13, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        On Jun 13, 2012 at 05:49 AM -0400, Eric Weir wrote:
        >Somehow, when I was getting started with vim, I ended up with a vim
        >installation to ~\ and a MacVim installation in \Applications. Before I
        >started using vim-addon-manager I installed plugins to the vim
        >installation.

        Do you have a Vim installation in ~/, or do you have your .vimrc and
        related files in ~/? They are two separate thigns. By the former, I
        mean the actual executable binary. If you have that, no, you don't need
        it. If it's the latter (.vimrc, plugins, etc.), yes that's where MacVim
        expects to find that stuff. All versions of vim are going to look in
        your home folder (~/) for configuration files, in addition to some other
        locations relevant for side wide configuration. But you should most
        likely stick with the home folder spot.

        >If I'm using MacVim, do I actually need the separate vim installation?
        >If not, and if I had reason to do a manual installation of a
        >plugin---not very likely, but I'm curious---where would I put it?

        You would put it in ~/.vim/bundle if using any of the plugin managers
        that expect to find plugins in the bundle folder. If not using any
        plugin managers at all, not even pathogen, then you still put the files
        in ~/.vim, just distributed amongst the appropriate folders in ~/.vim,
        like ~/.vim/plugin, ~/.vim/syntax, etc.

        --
        You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
        Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to.
        For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
      • Eric Weir
        ... Thanks for the clarification, Tim. I m attaching a screenshot of my ~ .vim folders with all the folders open. It does not appear to me that I have the
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 13, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          On Jun 13, 2012, at 8:20 AM, Tim Gray wrote:

          > On Jun 13, 2012 at 05:49 AM -0400, Eric Weir wrote:
          >> Somehow, when I was getting started with vim, I ended up with a vim installation to ~\ and a MacVim installation in \Applications. Before I started using vim-addon-manager I installed plugins to the vim installation.
          >
          > Do you have a Vim installation in ~/, or do you have your .vimrc and related files in ~/? They are two separate thigns. By the former, I mean the actual executable binary. If you have that, no, you don't need it. If it's the latter (.vimrc, plugins, etc.), yes that's where MacVim expects to find that stuff. All versions of vim are going to look in your home folder (~/) for configuration files, in addition to some other locations relevant for side wide configuration. But you should most likely stick with the home folder spot.

          Thanks for the clarification, Tim. I'm attaching a screenshot of my ~\.vim folders with all the folders open. It does not appear to me that I have the executable. All I see are remnants of plugins. [Including something that I suspect is the source of apparent conflicts regarding the current installation of a plugin in vim-addon-manager.]

          Until now I'd been under the impression that MacVim was just a front end that uses the files in the ~\.vim folder. Inspecting the contents of the MacVim package led me to suspect that in fact the vim files, executables and all, are in it. That the folders in ~\vim are superfluous.

          And yes, my .vimrc is in ~\. I'm very clear that it's needed and that that's where it belongs.

          >> If I'm using MacVim, do I actually need the separate vim installation? If not, and if I had reason to do a manual installation of a plugin---not very likely, but I'm curious---where would I put it?
          >
          > You would put it in ~/.vim/bundle if using any of the plugin managers that expect to find plugins in the bundle folder. If not using any plugin managers at all, not even pathogen, then you still put the files in ~/.vim, just distributed amongst the appropriate folders in ~/.vim, like ~/.vim/plugin, ~/.vim/syntax, etc.

          As indicated above, I use vim-addon-manager. I'll hang onto the ~\.vim folders in case for some reason I may want to do a manual install of a plugin.

          Thanks again.

          Sincerely,
          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Eric Weir
          Decatur, GA USA
          eeweir@...

          "Imagining the other is a powerful antidote to fanaticism and hatred."

          - Amos Oz

          --
          You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
          Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to.
          For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
        • Tony Mechelynck
          ... MacVim is a Mac OS X application and follows all the Mac conventions. Console Vim is a Unix application with no GUI. You can have both if you want to use
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 13, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            On 13/06/12 11:49, Eric Weir wrote:
            >
            > Somehow, when I was getting started with vim, I ended up with a vim
            > installation to ~\ and a MacVim installation in \Applications. Before I
            > started using vim-addon-manager I installed plugins to the vim
            > installation.
            >
            > If I'm using MacVim, do I actually need the separate vim installation?
            > If not, and if I had reason to do a manual installation of a
            > plugin---not very likely, but I'm curious---where would I put it?
            >
            > Thanks,
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > Eric Weir
            >
            > "With an ounce of willingness, everything can change."
            >
            > - Kim

            MacVim is a Mac OS X application and follows all the Mac conventions.
            Console Vim is a Unix application with no GUI. You can have both if you
            want to use Vim sometimes as a freestanding GUI and sometimes inside
            Terminal. You don't "need" both, you "can" even make do without Vim
            altogether, but depending on your workflow, you might "prefer" having
            one, or the other, or both.

            If you wanted to install a plugin manually… Let's assume a global plugin
            (the directory would be slightly different for a syntax plugin, a
            filetype plugin, a keymap, a colorscheme, etc.). In each installation of
            Vim (i.e., in Console Vim and/or in MacVim and/or, if you have it, in
            gvim for X11 GUI), type the following:

            :echo fnamemodify(expand("$HOME/.vim/plugin"),":p")
            :echo fnamemodify(expand("$VIM/vimfiles/plugin"),":p")

            This ought to give you for each Vim application two of the directories
            (one a function of your login name and the other not) which it searches
            for global plugins (for a different kind of plugin, only the last
            directory in the path is different). Write the results down and compare
            them. If you can use a common location for all Vim flavours, so much the
            better.

            WARNING: I never used a Mac, I was first on Windows and now on Linux, so
            maybe there are differences of which I'm not aware between Vim on Mac
            and Vim on other platforms. Maybe someone more familiar with the Mac
            than I am should chime in.


            Best regards,
            Tony.
            --
            Her locks an ancient lady gave
            Her loving husband's life to save;
            And men -- they honored so the dame --
            Upon some stars bestowed her name.

            But to our modern married fair,
            Who'd give their lords to save their hair,
            No stellar recognition's given.
            There are not stars enough in heaven.

            --
            You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
            Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to.
            For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
          • Tim Gray
            ... The screenshot didn t come through. Unless I m mistaken, vim-addon-manager should be installing plugins in your ~/.vim folder. Even though you are using
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 13, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              On Jun 13, 2012 at 10:00 AM -0400, Eric Weir wrote:
              >Thanks for the clarification, Tim. I'm attaching a screenshot of my
              >~\.vim folders with all the folders open. It does not appear to me that
              >I have the executable. All I see are remnants of plugins. [Including
              >something that I suspect is the source of apparent conflicts regarding
              >the current installation of a plugin in vim-addon-manager.]

              The screenshot didn't come through. Unless I'm mistaken,
              vim-addon-manager should be installing plugins in your ~/.vim folder.
              Even though you are using MacVim. I use MacVim and regular vim (on my
              Mac and Linux) and they all share the same .vimrc and .vim folder.

              >Until now I'd been under the impression that MacVim was just a front
              >end that uses the files in the ~\.vim folder. Inspecting the contents
              >of the MacVim package led me to suspect that in fact the vim files,
              >executables and all, are in it. That the folders in ~\vim are
              >superfluous.

              That impression is incorrect. The vim executable on Mac can be store
              anywhere as long as you call it correctly.. The vim that comes package
              with OS X lives in /usr/bin/vim. If you install your own copy of the
              command line version, it probably lives at /usr/local/bin/vim. MacVim
              lives in /Applications. I don't know if you know this or not, but GUI
              applications in OS X are actually folders. Inside of the MacVim app
              folder is an honest to god, regular old command line version of vim.
              It's here: /Applications/MacVim.app/Contents/MacOS/Vim. You can call
              that from the command line. I do it everyday, and am doing it to write
              this email. That's the executable or binary or application.

              Now that we got that out of the way, we can move onto the second point.
              Vim uses two (possibly more?) sets of configuration files and plugins.
              The first set is usually bundled with the program. For the command line
              version, this might be /usr/local/share/vim/vim73/, or
              /usr/share/vim/vim73, etc. For MacVim, it's
              /Applications/MacVim.app/Contents/Resources/vim/runtime. These files
              are not the same as the ones that live in ~/.vim. The second set
              of configuration files/plugins are your config files. The per-user
              files. These are stored in ~, and include .vimrc and your .vim folder.
              MacVim and the command line versions of vim should both refer to these
              files when you use those programs.

              To be explicit, the command line version of vim never lives in ~/.vim.
              MacVim is not a 'front end' for ~/.vim, and neither is CLI vim. ~/.vim
              is not superfluous for MacVim.

              >As indicated above, I use vim-addon-manager. I'll hang onto the ~\.vim
              >folders in case for some reason I may want to do a manual install of a
              >plugin.

              Again, unless vim-addon-manager is doing something I'm not aware of,
              it's probably installing your plugins in the .vim folder. Many plugin
              managers use ~/.vim/bundle, but it looks like vim-addon-manager defaults
              to ~/.vim/vim-addons.

              --
              You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
              Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to.
              For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
            • Eric Weir
              ... Thanks for the clarification, Tony. So, two reason for having a separate installation of vim: So I could run it in the terminal if I wanted to. [Attempting
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 13, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                On Jun 13, 2012, at 10:04 AM, Tony Mechelynck wrote:

                > MacVim is a Mac OS X application and follows all the Mac conventions. Console Vim is a Unix application with no GUI. You can have both if you want to use Vim sometimes as a freestanding GUI and sometimes inside Terminal. You don't "need" both, you "can" even make do without Vim altogether, but depending on your workflow, you might "prefer" having one, or the other, or both.
                >
                > If you wanted to install a plugin manually… Let's assume a global plugin (the directory would be slightly different for a syntax plugin, a filetype plugin, a keymap, a colorscheme, etc.). In each installation of Vim (i.e., in Console Vim and/or in MacVim and/or, if you have it, in gvim for X11 GUI), type the following:
                >
                > :echo fnamemodify(expand("$HOME/.vim/plugin"),":p")
                > :echo fnamemodify(expand("$VIM/vimfiles/plugin"),":p")
                >
                > This ought to give you for each Vim application two of the directories (one a function of your login name and the other not) which it searches for global plugins (for a different kind of plugin, only the last directory in the path is different). Write the results down and compare them. If you can use a common location for all Vim flavours, so much the better.

                Thanks for the clarification, Tony. So, two reason for having a separate installation of vim: So I could run it in the terminal if I wanted to. [Attempting to do so earlier today generated a list of errors that helped me locate the source of a problem that was preventing my plugins from loading.] And so I could do a manual install of a plugin if I never needed to.

                Thanks, to, for the method for determining where to install plugins, if I want to do a manual install.

                Sincerely,
                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                Eric Weir
                eeweir@...

                "Any assurance economists pretend to with
                regard to cause and effect is merely a pose."

                - Emanuel Derman






                --
                You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to.
                For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
              • Tim Gray
                ... It s probably wiser to call MacVim from the command line instead of calling the default OS X vim from the command line. This is because some of your
                Message 7 of 17 , Jun 13, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  On Jun 13, 2012 at 10:47 AM -0400, Eric Weir wrote:
                  >Thanks for the clarification, Tony. So, two reason for having a
                  >separate installation of vim: So I could run it in the terminal if I
                  >wanted to. [Attempting to do so earlier today generated a list of
                  >errors that helped me locate the source of a problem that was
                  >preventing my plugins from loading.] And so I could do a manual install
                  >of a plugin if I never needed to.

                  It's probably wiser to call MacVim from the command line instead of
                  calling the default OS X vim from the command line. This is because
                  some of your plugins and settings that you use for MacVim might depend
                  on features built into MacVim that aren't enabled in the version of vim
                  bundled with OS X. The OS X default vim doesn't have python, perl, or
                  ruby support enabled, which some plugins make use of. Also note,
                  depending on your version of OS X, Apple doesn't always include the most
                  up to date copy of vim, while your MacVim should be fairly recent.

                  You can call MacVim from the command line several different ways. The
                  easiest is probably to just create an alias in your .bashrc:

                  alias vim='/Applications/MacVim.app/Contents/MacOS/Vim'

                  Alternately, you can use the 'mvim' script that comes with MacVim. It's
                  a shell script that looks for an calls MacVim in command line mode.
                  Drop it somewhere that's in your path and just type 'mvim' on the
                  prompt.

                  --
                  You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                  Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to.
                  For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                • Eric Weir
                  ... Thanks again, Tim. Sorry about the screenshot. I would ve followed up when I realized it, but the description says it all. Only remnants of plugins from
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jun 13, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    On Jun 13, 2012, at 10:33 AM, Tim Gray wrote:

                    > On Jun 13, 2012 at 10:00 AM -0400, Eric Weir wrote:
                    >> Thanks for the clarification, Tim. I'm attaching a screenshot of my ~\.vim folders with all the folders open. It does not appear to me that I have the executable. All I see are remnants of plugins. [Including something that I suspect is the source of apparent conflicts regarding the current installation of a plugin in vim-addon-manager.]

                    > The screenshot didn't come through. Unless I'm mistaken, vim-addon-manager should be installing plugins in your ~/.vim folder. Even though you are using MacVim. I use MacVim and regular vim (on my Mac and Linux) and they all share the same .vimrc and .vim folder.

                    Thanks again, Tim. Sorry about the screenshot. I would've followed up when I realized it, but the description says it all. Only remnants of plugins from when I was installing them manually.

                    You can tweak where vim-addon-manager installs plugins---and is itself installed. I have mine going into ~\.

                    >> Until now I'd been under the impression that MacVim was just a front end that uses the files in the ~\.vim folder. Inspecting the contents of the MacVim package led me to suspect that in fact the vim files, executables and all, are in it. That the folders in ~\vim are superfluous.
                    >
                    > That impression is incorrect. The vim executable on Mac can be store anywhere as long as you call it correctly.. The vim that comes package with OS X lives in /usr/bin/vim. If you install your own copy of the command line version, it probably lives at /usr/local/bin/vim. MacVim lives in /Applications. I don't know if you know this or not, but GUI applications in OS X are actually folders. Inside of the MacVim app folder is an honest to god, regular old command line version of vim. It's here: /Applications/MacVim.app/Contents/MacOS/Vim. You can call that from the command line. I do it everyday, and am doing it to write this email. That's the executable or binary or application.

                    Yes, it was taking a closer look at the MacVim package than had previously that led me to ask whether I needed a separate installation. It appears I don't. In any case I don't have it. It's not in \usr\local\bin.

                    > Now that we got that out of the way, we can move onto the second point. Vim uses two (possibly more?) sets of configuration files and plugins. The first set is usually bundled with the program. For the command line version, this might be /usr/local/share/vim/vim73/, or /usr/share/vim/vim73, etc. For MacVim, it's /Applications/MacVim.app/Contents/Resources/vim/runtime. These files are not the same as the ones that live in ~/.vim. The second set of configuration files/plugins are your config files. The per-user files. These are stored in ~, and include .vimrc and your .vim folder. MacVim and the command line versions of vim should both refer to these files when you use those programs.

                    Again, it was looking at that runtime folder that made me realize there was more to vim than I was seeing in my ~\.vim folder.

                    > To be explicit, the command line version of vim never lives in ~/.vim. MacVim is not a 'front end' for ~/.vim, and neither is CLI vim. ~/.vim is not superfluous for MacVim.

                    I take it, reasons for running the command line version aside, that would not be true if all my plugins are installed by vim-addon-manager?

                    > Again, unless vim-addon-manager is doing something I'm not aware of, it's probably installing your plugins in the .vim folder. Many plugin managers use ~/.vim/bundle, but it looks like vim-addon-manager defaults to ~/.vim/vim-addons.

                    Yes, that's the default. But you can change it, and I have.

                    And thanks again for the detailed explanations.

                    Sincerely,
                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    Eric Weir
                    Decatur, GA
                    eeweir@...

                    "What is man without the beasts? If all the beasts were gone,
                    men would die from a great loneliness of spirit."

                    - Chief Seattle






                    --
                    You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                    Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to.
                    For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                  • Eric Weir
                    ... Thanks for the heads up, Tim. And for the explanations of how to call vim from the command line. ... Eric Weir Decatur, GA eeweir@bellsouth.net What is
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jun 13, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      On Jun 13, 2012, at 11:03 AM, Tim Gray wrote:

                      > It's probably wiser to call MacVim from the command line instead of calling the default OS X vim from the command line. This is because some of your plugins and settings that you use for MacVim might depend on features built into MacVim that aren't enabled in the version of vim bundled with OS X. The OS X default vim doesn't have python, perl, or ruby support enabled, which some plugins make use of. Also note, depending on your version of OS X, Apple doesn't always include the most up to date copy of vim, while your MacVim should be fairly recent.
                      >
                      > You can call MacVim from the command line several different ways. The easiest is probably to just create an alias in your .bashrc:
                      >
                      > alias vim='/Applications/MacVim.app/Contents/MacOS/Vim'
                      >
                      > Alternately, you can use the 'mvim' script that comes with MacVim. It's a shell script that looks for an calls MacVim in command line mode. Drop it somewhere that's in your path and just type 'mvim' on the prompt.

                      Thanks for the heads up, Tim. And for the explanations of how to call vim from the command line.

                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Eric Weir
                      Decatur, GA
                      eeweir@...

                      "What is man without the beasts? If all the beasts were gone,
                      men would die from a great loneliness of spirit."

                      - Chief Seattle






                      --
                      You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                      Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to.
                      For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                    • Eric Weir
                      A quick followup. I notice additions to the spelling dictionary---if that s what it s called;I m referring to en.utf-8.add and en.utf8.add.spl ---are
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jun 13, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        A quick followup. I notice additions to the spelling dictionary---if that's what it's called;I'm referring to 'en.utf-8.add' and 'en.utf8.add.spl'---are getting saved to ~\.vim\spell. Is that the default location when using MacVim?

                        Thanks,
                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        Eric Weir
                        eeweir@...

                        "Any assurance economists pretend to with
                        regard to cause and effect is merely a pose."

                        - Emanuel Derman






                        --
                        You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                        Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to.
                        For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                      • Tim Gray
                        ... You are more than welcome to do that, but other versions of vim are not going to look there by default... Is ~/ really better than ~/.vim/? Then again, I
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jun 13, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          On Jun 13, 2012 at 11:06 AM -0400, Eric Weir wrote:
                          >You can tweak where vim-addon-manager installs plugins---and is itself
                          >installed. I have mine going into ~\.

                          You are more than welcome to do that, but other versions of vim are not
                          going to look there by default... Is ~/ really better than ~/.vim/?

                          Then again, I use the command line quite a bit, so the last thing I want
                          is a ton folders and files cluttering up my home directory - it's bad
                          enough as it is now. Vim related stuff can go in .vim, where I can
                          ignore it unless I need to access it.

                          >Yes, it was taking a closer look at the MacVim package than had
                          >previously that led me to ask whether I needed a separate installation.
                          >It appears I don't. In any case I don't have it. It's not in
                          >\usr\local\bin.

                          If you are running OS X, I would be shocked if you didn't have vim at
                          /usr/bin/vim, with the site wide files for the copy of vim at
                          /usr/share/vim. To repeat, the site wide files are separate from your
                          user files. Don't install plugins into the site wide file location.
                          The stuff in .vim IS NOT a separate installation. The stuff you find in
                          /Applications/MacVim.app/Contents/Resources/vim/runtime is more or less
                          mirrored at /usr/share/vim/vim73. Those two sets of files ARE separate
                          installations of vim; the first corresponding to MacVim, the second to
                          default OS X. The exact path (/usr/share/vim/vim73) might be different
                          if you are running an older version of OS X. 10.5 for example didn't
                          have Vim 7.3, it had 7.2, so the location for runtime files was
                          /usr/share/vim/vim72.

                          /usr/local/bin is a common place that user installed software goes on
                          Unix systems. If you use the Homebrew package manager on OS X, that's
                          where it links programs to. If not, then you might not even have a
                          /usr/local directory yet (or ever).

                          >I take it, reasons for running the command line version aside, that
                          >would not be true if all my plugins are installed by vim-addon-manager?

                          It's only 'superfluous' for you because you are storing your plugins in
                          a nonstandard location and not using some of the other features that
                          make use of .vim. Or maybe you are using some of those features but
                          just don't realize it. And if you wanted to add ANYTHING customized,
                          outside of what vim-addon-manager provides, you'd have to put it in
                          ~/.vim/ (unless you really reconfigured things). For example, if you
                          add terms to the speller dictionary, they go in ~/.vim/spell. If you
                          use the session.vim plugin to save sessions, it saves it's files in
                          ~/.vim/session. Tweaked color themes go in ~/.vim/colors. Snipmate
                          looks for snippets in ~/.vim/snippets. I could go on, but I think you
                          understand. The way I use vim, there are certain settings and scripts
                          that aren't provided by any existing plugins, and those go into ~/.vim,
                          because that's where Vim looks for such things.

                          MacVim expects to find things in ~/.vim, IF you choose to use those
                          capabilities. There's nothing from stopping someone from running plain
                          vanilla (Mac)Vim with no .vimrc or plugins or files in the ~/.vim
                          folder, but the program still looks there for stuff. If you do decide
                          to use those features, Vim and most plugins expect to store and find
                          things in .vim. Notice that vim-addon-manager defaults to
                          ~/.vim/vim-addons? You had to change it to make it use another folder.
                          vim-addon-manager is a very well written plugin where the option to use
                          a different folder has been expose to the end user - a lot of plugins
                          don't provide that.

                          >Yes, that's the default. But you can change it, and I have.

                          Again, you are welcome to store your files where ever it pleases you,
                          but unless you have real strong reasons for moving things out of .vim,
                          I'd recommend leaving things in .vim. Including vim-addon-manager's
                          plugins. Just because that's where Vim and most of the plugins that
                          work with vim expect to find things.

                          --
                          You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                          Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to.
                          For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                        • Tim Gray
                          ... Yes, it s the default location for MacVim and vim. -- You received this message from the vim_mac maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jun 13, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            On Jun 13, 2012 at 11:36 AM -0400, Eric Weir wrote:
                            >A quick followup. I notice additions to the spelling dictionary---if
                            >that's what it's called;I'm referring to 'en.utf-8.add' and
                            >'en.utf8.add.spl'---are getting saved to ~\.vim\spell. Is that the
                            >default location when using MacVim?

                            Yes, it's the default location for MacVim and vim.

                            --
                            You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                            Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to.
                            For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                          • Eric Weir
                            ... Thanks, Tim. ... Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eeweir@bellsouth.net Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position, but certainty is an absurd one. - Voltaire --
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jun 13, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              On Jun 13, 2012, at 11:52 AM, Tim Gray wrote:

                              > On Jun 13, 2012 at 11:36 AM -0400, Eric Weir wrote:
                              >> A quick followup. I notice additions to the spelling dictionary---if that's what it's called;I'm referring to 'en.utf-8.add' and 'en.utf8.add.spl'---are getting saved to ~\.vim\spell. Is that the default location when using MacVim?
                              >
                              > Yes, it's the default location for MacVim and vim.

                              Thanks, Tim.

                              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              Eric Weir
                              Decatur, GA USA
                              eeweir@...

                              "Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position,
                              but certainty is an absurd one."

                              - Voltaire

                              --
                              You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                              Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to.
                              For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                            • Eric Weir
                              ... I don t remember my specific reason for putting it there. I think at the time---and definitely so recently---I found myself going to the vim-addons folder
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jun 13, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                On Jun 13, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Tim Gray wrote:

                                > On Jun 13, 2012 at 11:06 AM -0400, Eric Weir wrote:
                                >> You can tweak where vim-addon-manager installs plugins---and is itself installed. I have mine going into ~\.
                                >
                                > You are more than welcome to do that, but other versions of vim are not going to look there by default... Is ~/ really better than ~/.vim/?

                                I don't remember my specific reason for putting it there. I think at the time---and definitely so recently---I found myself going to the vim-addons folder frequently and just wanted it at the top level of ~\. I don't think it creates any problems for vim in finding plugins. When you change the location of the vim-addons folder, vam updates the runtime path for plugins to that location.

                                That said, your explanations below of the variety of ways ~\.vim can be/is used is causing me to rethink my decision. I imagine it would help me to stay current with the state of ~\.vim. And keeping everything in the home folder related to vim in one place makes sense, too. If I make the change, a minor change to the install path in my vam setup in my .vimrc will result in the paths to all my plugins being updated to the new location.

                                >> Yes, it was taking a closer look at the MacVim package than had previously that led me to ask whether I needed a separate installation. It appears I don't. In any case I don't have it. It's not in \usr\local\bin.
                                >
                                > If you are running OS X, I would be shocked if you didn't have vim at /usr/bin/vim, with the site wide files for the copy of vim at /usr/share/vim. To repeat, the site wide files are separate from your user files. Don't install plugins into the site wide file location. The stuff in .vim IS NOT a separate installation. The stuff you find in /Applications/MacVim.app/Contents/Resources/vim/runtime is more or less mirrored at /usr/share/vim/vim73. Those two sets of files ARE separate installations of vim; the first corresponding to MacVim, the second to default OS X. The exact path (/usr/share/vim/vim73) might be different if you are running an older version of OS X. 10.5 for example didn't have Vim 7.3, it had 7.2, so the location for runtime files was /usr/share/vim/vim72.

                                My mistake. I looked in \usr\local\bin. In fact, there is an installation in \usr\bin and the files for it are at \usr\share\vim and it is vim72. My Mac was purchased in late 2009, but I'm running snow leopard, and will probably get a new machine later this summer. [Dreading the transition. One the one hand, I don't want to have to start from scratch. On the other hand, imagine I've thrown more than a few wrenches into the gears of the system in the last couple years, and it would be nice to get free of them.]

                                > It's only 'superfluous' for you because you are storing your plugins in a nonstandard location and not using some of the other features that make use of .vim. Or maybe you are using some of those features but just don't realize it. And if you wanted to add ANYTHING customized, outside of what vim-addon-manager provides, you'd have to put it in ~/.vim/ (unless you really reconfigured things). For example, if you add terms to the speller dictionary, they go in ~/.vim/spell. If you use the session.vim plugin to save sessions, it saves it's files in ~/.vim/session. Tweaked color themes go in ~/.vim/colors. Snipmate looks for snippets in ~/.vim/snippets. I could go on, but I think you understand. The way I use vim, there are certain settings and scripts that aren't provided by any existing plugins, and those go into ~/.vim, because that's where Vim looks for such things.
                                >
                                > MacVim expects to find things in ~/.vim, IF you choose to use those capabilities. There's nothing from stopping someone from running plain vanilla (Mac)Vim with no .vimrc or plugins or files in the ~/.vim folder, but the program still looks there for stuff. If you do decide to use those features, Vim and most plugins expect to store and find things in .vim. Notice that vim-addon-manager defaults to ~/.vim/vim-addons? You had to change it to make it use another folder. vim-addon-manager is a very well written plugin where the option to use a different folder has been expose to the end user - a lot of plugins don't provide that.

                                Again, comments all well-taken. Very likely I will collect all my vim-related stuff into ~\.vim as a way to keep myself better informed about its state.

                                Thanks very much for your clear and detailed responses.

                                Sincerely,
                                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                Eric Weir
                                Decatur, GA
                                eeweir@...

                                "What does it mean...that the world is so beautiful?"

                                - Mary Oliver






                                --
                                You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                                Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to.
                                For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                              • Ben Schmidt
                                ... ~/.vim Only the runtime files shipped with Vim are stored in /Applications/MacVim.app/Contents/Resources/vim/runtime. (The runtime files for the Mac OS X
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jun 18, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  On 13/06/12 7:49 PM, Eric Weir wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Somehow, when I was getting started with vim, I ended up with a vim installation
                                  > to ~\ and a MacVim installation in \Applications. Before I started using
                                  > vim-addon-manager I installed plugins to the vim installation.
                                  >
                                  > If I'm using MacVim, do I actually need the separate vim installation? If not, and
                                  > if I had reason to do a manual installation of a plugin---not very likely, but I'm
                                  > curious---where would I put it?

                                  ~/.vim

                                  Only the runtime files shipped with Vim are stored in
                                  /Applications/MacVim.app/Contents/Resources/vim/runtime. (The runtime
                                  files for the Mac OS X version of Vim are in /usr/share/vim/vim73 or
                                  similar.)

                                  In both cases, the user's runtime files go in ~/.vim.

                                  The user's vimrc belongs at ~/.vimrc and system ones vary in location.
                                  Issuing :version inside Vim can give you more information. :echo $VIM
                                  and :echo $VIMRUNTIME and :echo $HOME can help you understand the
                                  output, too.

                                  Ben.

                                  P.S. Probably best not to cross-post. I'm replying only on vim_mac, since this is
                                  a fairly Mac-specific question.


                                  --
                                  You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                                  Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to.
                                  For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                                • Eric Weir
                                  ... Thanks, Ben. That s where I have things. Was under the impression that vim itself was in ~/.vim. I m clear now. ... I ve been admonished about this before,
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jun 18, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    On Jun 18, 2012, at 2:05 PM, Ben Schmidt wrote:

                                    > Only the runtime files shipped with Vim are stored in
                                    > /Applications/MacVim.app/Contents/Resources/vim/runtime. (The runtime
                                    > files for the Mac OS X version of Vim are in /usr/share/vim/vim73 or
                                    > similar.)
                                    >
                                    > In both cases, the user's runtime files go in ~/.vim.
                                    >
                                    > The user's vimrc belongs at ~/.vimrc and system ones vary in location.
                                    > Issuing :version inside Vim can give you more information. :echo $VIM
                                    > and :echo $VIMRUNTIME and :echo $HOME can help you understand the
                                    > output, too.

                                    Thanks, Ben. That's where I have things. Was under the impression that vim itself was in ~/.vim. I'm clear now.

                                    > P.S. Probably best not to cross-post. I'm replying only on vim_mac, since this is a fairly Mac-specific question.

                                    I've been admonished about this before, and mostly avoid it. I just reposted a vim_mac post to vim_use. It's pretty Mac-specific, but vim_mac seems not to be very active at the moment, and I thought I might get a quicker response here.

                                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    Eric Weir
                                    eeweir@...

                                    "Any assurance economists pretend to with
                                    regard to cause and effect is merely a pose."

                                    - Emanuel Derman






                                    --
                                    You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                                    Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to.
                                    For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                                  • Ben Schmidt
                                    ... Mmm. I think that s why I didn t see all the previous answers, too! They were filed differently because of the cross-posting. Anyway, never mind; no harm
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Jun 18, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      On 19/06/12 4:32 AM, Eric Weir wrote:
                                      > On Jun 18, 2012, at 2:05 PM, Ben Schmidt wrote:
                                      >
                                      >> Only the runtime files shipped with Vim are stored in
                                      >> /Applications/MacVim.app/Contents/Resources/vim/runtime. (The runtime
                                      >> files for the Mac OS X version of Vim are in /usr/share/vim/vim73 or
                                      >> similar.)
                                      >>
                                      >> In both cases, the user's runtime files go in ~/.vim.
                                      >>
                                      >> The user's vimrc belongs at ~/.vimrc and system ones vary in location.
                                      >> Issuing :version inside Vim can give you more information. :echo $VIM
                                      >> and :echo $VIMRUNTIME and :echo $HOME can help you understand the
                                      >> output, too.
                                      >
                                      > Thanks, Ben. That's where I have things. Was under the impression that vim itself was in ~/.vim. I'm clear now.
                                      >
                                      >> P.S. Probably best not to cross-post. I'm replying only on vim_mac, since this is a fairly Mac-specific question.
                                      >
                                      > I've been admonished about this before, and mostly avoid it. I just reposted a vim_mac post to vim_use. It's pretty Mac-specific, but vim_mac seems not to be very active at the moment, and I thought I might get a quicker response here.

                                      Mmm. I think that's why I didn't see all the previous answers, too! They
                                      were filed differently because of the cross-posting.

                                      Anyway, never mind; no harm done. Glad you've got an answer.

                                      Smiles,

                                      Ben.



                                      --
                                      You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                                      Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to.
                                      For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.