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Re: Feature Request: "Auto Save and Versions"

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  • Eric Weir
    ... Thanks for the reference to this, Janusz. Gives me an occasion to try installing via vim-addon-manager the first time. ... Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 5, 2011
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      On Aug 5, 2011, at 4:00 AM, Janusz Bossy wrote:

      > Are you sure you'd like to have Lion's auto save? Take a look at Steve
      > Losh's gundo.vim (http://sjl.bitbucket.org/gundo.vim/). Vim's built-in
      > undo tree is much more powerful than Lion's auto save. Trust me :)

      Thanks for the reference to this, Janusz. Gives me an occasion to try installing via vim-addon-manager the first time.

      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Eric Weir
      Decatur, GA USA
      eeweir@...




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    • Janusz Bossy
      ... No problem. Just remember to enable persistent undo and you ve got something a lot better than auto save and versions :) /Janusz -- You received this
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 5, 2011
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        On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Eric Weir <eeweir@...> wrote:
        > Thanks for the reference to this, Janusz. Gives me an occasion to try installing via vim-addon-manager the first time.

        No problem. Just remember to enable persistent undo and you've got
        something a lot better than auto save and versions :)

        /Janusz

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      • björn
        ... As far as I can tell Auto Save / Versions are intimately tied into the NSDocument architecture. MacVim does not use this and changing the code to do so
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 5, 2011
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          On 4 August 2011 21:47, augix wrote:
          > Mac OS X Lion provided a very useful feature called "Auto Save and
          > Versions". It would be great if MacVim would implement this feature.
          > Are you planning to add that?

          As far as I can tell Auto Save / Versions are intimately tied into the
          NSDocument architecture. MacVim does not use this and changing the
          code to do so would require a complete refactoring.

          Unless there is an API to "manually" support these features (that I
          have yet to find) then I would say that it is too much work to
          implement.

          Another concern is how well does these features work when you're
          programming (which, I am guessing, many Vim users do)? I don't think
          it would fit my own workflow. I often do changes, realize they were
          stupid, then hit undo until I get back to the saved version. Sure,
          with Versions you can go into the flashy "time machine animation
          thingy" and go back in time, but this seems like it would take a lot
          more time/effort than hitting undo a few times.

          If I were ever to add these features to MacVim there would be a way to
          disable them. It just seems like they have too much potential to get
          in the way.

          Another thought: why doesn't the Xcode editor use these features? My
          guess is that the Apple engineers came to the same conclusion, i.e.
          that these features don't fit into the programming workflow that well.
          I'm only guessing here...

          Björn

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        • Janusz Bossy
          ... Björn, don t assume everyone is doing programming in MacVim. There are a lot of people who write books in it. MacVim + LaTeX-suite + LaTeX is a remarkable
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 5, 2011
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            On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 2:05 PM, björn <bjorn.winckler@...> wrote:
            > Another concern is how well does these features work when you're
            > programming (which, I am guessing, many Vim users do)?  I don't think
            > it would fit my own workflow.  I often do changes, realize they were
            > stupid, then hit undo until I get back to the saved version.  Sure,
            > with Versions you can go into the flashy "time machine animation
            > thingy" and go back in time, but this seems like it would take a lot
            > more time/effort than hitting undo a few times.
            >
            > If I were ever to add these features to MacVim there would be a way to
            > disable them.  It just seems like they have too much potential to get
            > in the way.
            >
            > Another thought: why doesn't the Xcode editor use these features?  My
            > guess is that the Apple engineers came to the same conclusion, i.e.
            > that these features don't fit into the programming workflow that well.
            >  I'm only guessing here...

            Björn,

            don't assume everyone is doing programming in MacVim. There are a lot
            of people who write books in it. MacVim + LaTeX-suite + LaTeX is a
            remarkable set of tools for putting long papers or book together.
            Nonetheless the undo tree in Vim 7.3 is more than enough and far
            better than versions. It lacks the ultra-fancy and easy to use
            (although gundo,vim is really close to being intuitive ;)) UI of time
            machine but it works and can save your life sometimes.

            /Janusz

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          • Christopher Stone
            ... ______________________________________________________________________ Vim s undo methods are well thought out and very robust. In my opinion Lion s
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 5, 2011
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              On Aug 05, 2011, at 07:05, björn wrote:
              As far as I can tell Auto Save / Versions are intimately tied into the NSDocument architecture. MacVim does not use this and changing the code to do so would require a complete refactoring.
              ______________________________________________________________________

              Vim's undo methods are well thought out and very robust.

              In my opinion Lion's versions cannot say the same and have a long way to go.

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              Chris

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            • björn
              ... To dispel any misunderstandings here: I never meant to imply that Vim is only for programming. I myself am one of those users who use Vim more for
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 5, 2011
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                On 5 August 2011 14:23, Janusz Bossy wrote:
                > On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 2:05 PM, björn wrote:
                >> Another concern is how well does these features work when you're
                >> programming (which, I am guessing, many Vim users do)?  I don't think
                >> it would fit my own workflow.  I often do changes, realize they were
                >
                > don't assume everyone is doing programming in MacVim. There are a lot
                > of people who write books in it. MacVim + LaTeX-suite + LaTeX is a
                > remarkable set of tools for putting long papers or book together.

                To dispel any misunderstandings here: I never meant to imply that Vim
                is only for programming. I myself am one of those users who use Vim
                more for non-programming related tasks, namely for LaTeX editing,
                writing plain text or markdown notes, etc.

                My point was that _most_ people (presumably) use it for programming
                and I think it prudent to spend my (limited) time supporting the
                majority of users. Implementing a feature that most people would
                disable, and that already has an equivalent (or arguably better)
                Vim-native feature may be considered time poorly spent. Of course, if
                enough people would request this feature, then I would reconsider.

                All that being said, I personally would think it was neat if MacVim
                did support Versions and Auto Save. I'd probably have it turned on
                all the time, except for when I was programming.

                Björn

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              • Jonathan Buys
                ... I do too. I might leave it on all the time. To me, the conversation about new features in Lion should probably be addressed individually. Auto-Save: The
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 5, 2011
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                  On Aug 5, 2011, at 4:29 PM, björn wrote:

                  All that being said, I personally would think it was neat if MacVim
                  did support Versions and Auto Save.  I'd probably have it turned on
                  all the time, except for when I was programming.

                  I do too. I might leave it on all the time. To me, the conversation about new features in Lion should probably be addressed individually.

                  Auto-Save: The ability to forget about needing to <esc>:w!  Although I doubt there are many on this list who ever could. The cocoa framework automatically saves changes to the file in the background, while you work. If you need to revert back to a previous save, you have the option of using cocoa's Versions, but I wonder if there is a faster way to get to the previous saves?

                  Versions: The groovy 3D time machine like interface to browse past saves of the currently open file. Obviously, there are more efficient and powerful ways to version a file, but it's still cool. Its cool in the same way that Time Machine makes backing up your hard drive accessible and easy to people who would otherwise have never given it a thought.

                  Sudden Termination: MacVim already gives you the option to do this, thats how I have mine setup. If there is not a currently open file in a window, MacVim quits. Cocoa now gives you the option to let the OS kill the app for you, if it feels like it needs the RAM and sees that the app is not doing anything.

                  Resume:  Lion will also attempt to restart applications and have them resume exactly where they were after a reboot or logging out. It is a different way of thinking about the computer, and one that I think many people will become accustomed to fairly quickly. 

                  These four features work together to form a different mental model of working with files and applications on the Mac. It is going to take some time before all applications support the new model, but eventually there will be a divide between those that do, and those that do not. Those that do not will start to feel out of place.

                  However, MacVim is kind of a special application, so the question of if it should support this modal of interaction should be answered in time. Eventually, if the modal succeeds the way Apple wants it to, we will all become so used to not thinking about saving files or quitting applications that the necessity to do so in MacVim will become an obvious detriment. For now, it is all so new that we might all be better served by waiting it out and seeing which way the wind blows. 

                  Till then, I sure love MacVim. Thanks Björn.

                  Jon

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                • Dominik Gehl
                  I believe in fact that resume will be a very nice feature to have. Just imagine how cool it ll be to open MacVim and have it display exactly the same last
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 12, 2011
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                    I believe in fact that 'resume' will be a very nice feature to have.
                    Just imagine how cool it'll be to open MacVim and have it display
                    exactly the same last files you had opened before closing it ! Now
                    that'll speed things up in the morning ;-) !

                    Dominik


                    On Aug 5, 11:27 pm, Jonathan Buys <jonb...@...> wrote:
                    > On Aug 5, 2011, at 4:29 PM, björn wrote:
                    >
                    > > All that being said, I personally would think it was neat if MacVim
                    > > did support Versions and Auto Save.  I'd probably have it turned on
                    > > all the time, except for when I was programming.
                    >
                    > I do too. I might leave it on all the time. To me, the conversation about new features in Lion should probably be addressed individually.
                    >
                    > Auto-Save: The ability to forget about needing to <esc>:w!  Although I doubt there are many on this list who ever could. The cocoa framework automatically saves changes to the file in the background, while you work. If you need to revert back to a previous save, you have the option of using cocoa's Versions, but I wonder if there is a faster way to get to the previous saves?
                    >
                    > Versions: The groovy 3D time machine like interface to browse past saves of the currently open file. Obviously, there are more efficient and powerful ways to version a file, but it's still cool. Its cool in the same way that Time Machine makes backing up your hard drive accessible and easy to people who would otherwise have never given it a thought.
                    >
                    > Sudden Termination: MacVim already gives you the option to do this, thats how I have mine setup. If there is not a currently open file in a window, MacVim quits. Cocoa now gives you the option to let the OS kill the app for you, if it feels like it needs the RAM and sees that the app is not doing anything.
                    >
                    > Resume:  Lion will also attempt to restart applications and have them resume exactly where they were after a reboot or logging out. It is a different way of thinking about the computer, and one that I think many people will become accustomed to fairly quickly.
                    >
                    > These four features work together to form a different mental model of working with files and applications on the Mac. It is going to take some time before all applications support the new model, but eventually there will be a divide between those that do, and those that do not. Those that do not will start to feel out of place.
                    >
                    > However, MacVim is kind of a special application, so the question of if it should support this modal of interaction should be answered in time. Eventually, if the modal succeeds the way Apple wants it to, we will all become so used to not thinking about saving files or quitting applications that the necessity to do so in MacVim will become an obvious detriment. For now, it is all so new that we might all be better served by waiting it out and seeing which way the wind blows.
                    >
                    > Till then, I sure love MacVim. Thanks Björn.
                    >
                    > Jon

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                  • Billy Huang
                    You dont have to wait for update. Vim save session plugin... It auto save and reload... Sent from my Windows Phone From: Dominik Gehl Sent: Saturday, 13 August
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 12, 2011
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                      You dont have to wait for update.
                      Vim save session plugin...
                      It auto save and reload...

                      Sent from my Windows Phone From: Dominik Gehl
                      Sent: Saturday, 13 August 2011 15:19
                      To: vim_mac
                      Subject: Re: Feature Request: "Auto Save and Versions"
                      I believe in fact that 'resume' will be a very nice feature to have.
                      Just imagine how cool it'll be to open MacVim and have it display
                      exactly the same last files you had opened before closing it ! Now
                      that'll speed things up in the morning ;-) !

                      Dominik


                      On Aug 5, 11:27 pm, Jonathan Buys <jonb...@...> wrote:
                      > On Aug 5, 2011, at 4:29 PM, björn wrote:
                      >
                      > > All that being said, I personally would think it was neat if MacVim
                      > > did support Versions and Auto Save.  I'd probably have it turned on
                      > > all the time, except for when I was programming.
                      >
                      > I do too. I might leave it on all the time. To me, the conversation about new features in Lion should probably be addressed individually.
                      >
                      > Auto-Save: The ability to forget about needing to <esc>:w!  Although I doubt there are many on this list who ever could. The cocoa framework automatically saves changes to the file in the background, while you work. If you need to revert back to a previous save, you have the option of using cocoa's Versions, but I wonder if there is a faster way to get to the previous saves?
                      >
                      > Versions: The groovy 3D time machine like interface to browse past saves of the currently open file. Obviously, there are more efficient and powerful ways to version a file, but it's still cool. Its cool in the same way that Time Machine makes backing up your hard drive accessible and easy to people who would otherwise have never given it a thought.
                      >
                      > Sudden Termination: MacVim already gives you the option to do this, thats how I have mine setup. If there is not a currently open file in a window, MacVim quits. Cocoa now gives you the option to let the OS kill the app for you, if it feels like it needs the RAM and sees that the app is not doing anything.
                      >
                      > Resume:  Lion will also attempt to restart applications and have them resume exactly where they were after a reboot or logging out. It is a different way of thinking about the computer, and one that I think many people will become accustomed to fairly quickly.
                      >
                      > These four features work together to form a different mental model of working with files and applications on the Mac. It is going to take some time before all applications support the new model, but eventually there will be a divide between those that do, and those that do not. Those that do not will start to feel out of place.
                      >
                      > However, MacVim is kind of a special application, so the question of if it should support this modal of interaction should be answered in time. Eventually, if the modal succeeds the way Apple wants it to, we will all become so used to not thinking about saving files or quitting applications that the necessity to do so in MacVim will become an obvious detriment. For now, it is all so new that we might all be better served by waiting it out and seeing which way the wind blows.
                      >
                      > Till then, I sure love MacVim. Thanks Björn.
                      >
                      > Jon

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