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Re: gestures

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  • björn
    ... By gestures I assume you mean the various swipes/pinches etc. that can be done on the track pads of the later model MacBooks? I ve never looked into
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 18, 2010
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      On 17 February 2010 15:22, Mark Santcroos wrote:
      > Recently I'm trying MacVim again over vanilla vim.
      > Anyone has been looking into, trying, considering using gestures?
      >
      > One usage scenario that I would like to have is tab-switching.

      By "gestures" I assume you mean the various swipes/pinches etc. that
      can be done on the track pads of the later model MacBooks? I've never
      looked into this but it doesn't seem like it would be too hard to add
      support to bind to these. Sounds like it could be useful too.

      Would anybody want to look into this? (I'll add it to my todo but it
      will take several weeks before I can look into this.)

      Björn

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    • Mark Santcroos
      ... I can look into it myself, but wanted to check if it was worth investigating. I ll try to come up with a patch. Mark -- You received this message from the
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 18, 2010
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        On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 5:24 PM, björn <bjorn.winckler@...> wrote:
        > On 17 February 2010 15:22, Mark Santcroos wrote:
        >> Recently I'm trying MacVim again over vanilla vim.
        >> Anyone has been looking into, trying, considering using gestures?
        >>
        >> One usage scenario that I would like to have is tab-switching.
        >
        > By "gestures" I assume you mean the various swipes/pinches etc. that
        > can be done on the track pads of the later model MacBooks?  I've never
        > looked into this but it doesn't seem like it would be too hard to add
        > support to bind to these.  Sounds like it could be useful too.
        >
        > Would anybody want to look into this?  (I'll add it to my todo but it
        > will take several weeks before I can look into this.)

        I can look into it myself, but wanted to check if it was worth investigating.
        I'll try to come up with a patch.

        Mark

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      • björn
        ... Hi Mark (and vim_mac), It s been a long time since this thread was started but I have now implemented rudimentary gesture support for MacVim. With the
        Message 3 of 18 , Sep 1, 2010
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          On 18 February 2010 23:03, Mark Santcroos wrote:
          > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 5:24 PM, björn wrote:
          >> On 17 February 2010 15:22, Mark Santcroos wrote:
          >>> Recently I'm trying MacVim again over vanilla vim.
          >>> Anyone has been looking into, trying, considering using gestures?
          >>>
          >>> One usage scenario that I would like to have is tab-switching.
          >>
          >> By "gestures" I assume you mean the various swipes/pinches etc. that
          >> can be done on the track pads of the later model MacBooks?  I've never
          >> looked into this but it doesn't seem like it would be too hard to add
          >> support to bind to these.  Sounds like it could be useful too.
          >>
          >> Would anybody want to look into this?  (I'll add it to my todo but it
          >> will take several weeks before I can look into this.)
          >
          > I can look into it myself, but wanted to check if it was worth investigating.
          > I'll try to come up with a patch.

          Hi Mark (and vim_mac),

          It's been a long time since this thread was started but I have now
          implemented rudimentary gesture support for MacVim.

          With the latest source code version there are now several new pseudo keys:

          <SwipeLeft> <SwipeRight> <SwipeUp> <SwipeDown>
          <PinchIn> <PinchOut>
          <RotateCW> <RotateCCW>

          For instance, the following (rather dull) maps let you change buffers
          by swiping:

          nmap <SwipeLeft> :bN<CR>
          nmap <SwipeRight> :bn<CR>

          All new keys are bound to nothing by default (I could not think of any
          "natural" default bindings for them).

          Note that the Pinch/Rotate keys generate a lot of events in one go so
          I'm not sure they will be very useful at this point in time. The
          swipe keys are more "reliable".

          I can't think of anything really useful for this feature yet -- does
          anybody have any neat ideas?

          Björn

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        • Vincent Berthoux
          Hi, What about this commands : nnoremap gt nnoremap gT this way, the swipe allow us to switch around the opened tabs, which quite fit
          Message 4 of 18 , Sep 1, 2010
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            Hi,

            What about this commands :
            nnoremap <SwipeLeft> gt
            nnoremap <SwipeRight> gT

            this way, the swipe allow us to switch around the opened tabs, which quite fit the gesture idea.

            A more complex machinery could be used to allow the user to change font size with the Pinchin/Pinchout, but it might need a more consequent vimscript to handle it.

            Vincent Berthoux

            Le 1 sept. 2010 à 16:57, björn a écrit :

            > On 18 February 2010 23:03, Mark Santcroos wrote:
            >> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 5:24 PM, björn wrote:
            >>> On 17 February 2010 15:22, Mark Santcroos wrote:
            >>>> Recently I'm trying MacVim again over vanilla vim.
            >>>> Anyone has been looking into, trying, considering using gestures?
            >>>>
            >>>> One usage scenario that I would like to have is tab-switching.
            >>>
            >>> By "gestures" I assume you mean the various swipes/pinches etc. that
            >>> can be done on the track pads of the later model MacBooks? I've never
            >>> looked into this but it doesn't seem like it would be too hard to add
            >>> support to bind to these. Sounds like it could be useful too.
            >>>
            >>> Would anybody want to look into this? (I'll add it to my todo but it
            >>> will take several weeks before I can look into this.)
            >>
            >> I can look into it myself, but wanted to check if it was worth investigating.
            >> I'll try to come up with a patch.
            >
            > Hi Mark (and vim_mac),
            >
            > It's been a long time since this thread was started but I have now
            > implemented rudimentary gesture support for MacVim.
            >
            > With the latest source code version there are now several new pseudo keys:
            >
            > <SwipeLeft> <SwipeRight> <SwipeUp> <SwipeDown>
            > <PinchIn> <PinchOut>
            > <RotateCW> <RotateCCW>
            >
            > For instance, the following (rather dull) maps let you change buffers
            > by swiping:
            >
            > nmap <SwipeLeft> :bN<CR>
            > nmap <SwipeRight> :bn<CR>
            >
            > All new keys are bound to nothing by default (I could not think of any
            > "natural" default bindings for them).
            >
            > Note that the Pinch/Rotate keys generate a lot of events in one go so
            > I'm not sure they will be very useful at this point in time. The
            > swipe keys are more "reliable".
            >
            > I can't think of anything really useful for this feature yet -- does
            > anybody have any neat ideas?
            >
            > Björn
            >
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          • J Irving
            ... Until recently, I was using a FingerWorks Gesture Pad. Sadly they re out of business now, and I won t be able to replace it when it dies (and it s getting
            Message 5 of 18 , Sep 1, 2010
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              On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 16:57, björn <bjorn.winckler@...> wrote:
              > I can't think of anything really useful for this feature yet -- does
              > anybody have any neat ideas?

              Until recently, I was using a FingerWorks Gesture Pad. Sadly they're
              out of business now, and I won't be able to replace it when it dies
              (and it's getting creaky). One of the gesture combos I used a fair
              bit was <PinchOut> to paste, and (used less) <PinchIn> to copy. Not
              sure it would make sense to bind it to the vim equivalents, but I'd
              sure like it if I could get my trackpad and magicpad doing that.

              Is there any way to bind to bind to the OS X paste function in MacVim?

              cheers, J

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            • Keyan
              ... hi, this sounds like a cool feature, but unfortunately they dont seem to work for me. i tried with my magic mouse and with the touchpad. i am currently
              Message 6 of 18 , Sep 2, 2010
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                On 1 Sep 2010, at 22:57, björn wrote:

                > nmap <SwipeLeft> :bN<CR>
                > nmap <SwipeRight> :bn<CR>

                hi,

                this sounds like a cool feature, but unfortunately they dont seem to work for me. i tried with my magic mouse and with the touchpad.

                i am currently using MacVim

                :version
                VIM - Vi IMproved 7.3 (2010 Aug 15, compiled Aug 15 2010 22:03:01)

                regards,
                keyan

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              • björn
                ... This doesn t sound very useful to me: isn t it easier to just click the tab you want to go to? (Or have fewer tabs open if they can t all fit in the
                Message 7 of 18 , Sep 2, 2010
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                  On 1 September 2010 23:05, Vincent Berthoux wrote:
                  >
                  >   What about this commands :
                  > nnoremap <SwipeLeft> gt
                  > nnoremap <SwipeRight> gT
                  >
                  > this way, the swipe allow us to switch around the opened tabs, which quite fit the gesture idea.

                  This doesn't sound very useful to me: isn't it easier to just click
                  the tab you want to go to? (Or have fewer tabs open if they can't all
                  fit in the tabline.)

                  > A more complex machinery could be used to allow the user to change font size with the Pinchin/Pinchout, but it might need a more consequent vimscript to handle it.

                  If the gestures are to be useful I think they'd need to be bound to
                  something that you use fairly often, and how often do you change the
                  font size? I think they also should be associated with something that
                  currently can't be done when your hands are off the keyboard -- so,
                  something to do with viewing files but that cannot already be done
                  using the mouse...

                  Thanks for you thoughts though!

                  Björn

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                • björn
                  ... In their current state PinchIn/Out generate _many_ events during one pinch movement so this would not work at the moment. (It may be worth fixing the
                  Message 8 of 18 , Sep 2, 2010
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                    On 1 September 2010 23:08, J Irving wrote:
                    > On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 16:57, björn wrote:
                    >> I can't think of anything really useful for this feature yet -- does
                    >> anybody have any neat ideas?
                    >
                    > Until recently, I was using a FingerWorks Gesture Pad.  Sadly they're
                    > out of business now, and I won't be able to replace it when it dies
                    > (and it's getting creaky).  One of the gesture combos I used a fair
                    > bit was <PinchOut> to paste, and (used less) <PinchIn> to copy.  Not
                    > sure it would make sense to bind it to the vim equivalents, but I'd
                    > sure like it if I could get my trackpad and magicpad doing that.

                    In their current state PinchIn/Out generate _many_ events during one
                    pinch movement so this would not work at the moment. (It may be worth
                    fixing the pinch/rotate gestures so that they only generate one event
                    per pinch/rotate movement, but I'll leave that to somebody else for
                    now.)

                    >
                    > Is there any way to bind to bind to the OS X paste function in MacVim?

                    You can e.g. bind to "+gP, or ":emenu Edit.Paste", or ...

                    Björn

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                  • Mark Santcroos
                    Hi Björn, ... Cool! I had given it a try myself, but a new language and too much code was a bit too daunting for me at the time :-) ... See below. ... I fully
                    Message 9 of 18 , Sep 2, 2010
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                      Hi Björn,

                      > Le 1 sept. 2010 à 16:57, björn a écrit :
                      >> Hi Mark (and vim_mac),
                      >>
                      >> It's been a long time since this thread was started but I have now
                      >> implemented rudimentary gesture support for MacVim.

                      Cool! I had given it a try myself, but a new language and too much
                      code was a bit too daunting for me at the time :-)

                      >> I can't think of anything really useful for this feature yet -- does
                      >> anybody have any neat ideas?

                      See below.

                      On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 23:05, Vincent Berthoux <twinside@...> wrote:
                      > What about this commands :
                      > nnoremap <SwipeLeft> gt
                      > nnoremap <SwipeRight> gT
                      >
                      > this way, the swipe allow us to switch around the opened tabs, which quite fit the gesture idea.

                      I fully support this usage from Vincent, it was exactly what I had in
                      mind at the time and I like it already.
                      It is confirming with my Firefox tab switching. And it is really
                      faster than clicking the tab if you are browsing through text and you
                      are not near the top.

                      Regards from a happy customer,

                      Mark

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                    • björn
                      ... Ok! Still not my cup of tea though. :-) I did however think of something that I am considering to make a MacVim default mapping, namely: nmap
                      Message 10 of 18 , Sep 2, 2010
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                        On 2 September 2010 13:31, Mark Santcroos wrote:
                        >> Le 1 sept. 2010 à 16:57, björn a écrit :
                        >
                        > On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 23:05, Vincent Berthoux <twinside@...> wrote:
                        >>   What about this commands :
                        >> nnoremap <SwipeLeft> gt
                        >> nnoremap <SwipeRight> gT
                        >>
                        >> this way, the swipe allow us to switch around the opened tabs, which quite fit the gesture idea.
                        >
                        > I fully support this usage from Vincent, it was exactly what I had in
                        > mind at the time and I like it already.
                        > It is confirming with my Firefox tab switching. And it is really
                        > faster than clicking the tab if you are browsing through text and you
                        > are not near the top.

                        Ok! Still not my cup of tea though. :-)

                        I did however think of something that I am considering to make a
                        MacVim default mapping, namely:

                        nmap <buffer> <SwipeLeft> :po<CR>
                        nmap <buffer> <SwipeRight> :ta<CR>

                        in $VIMRUNTIME/ftpluging/help.vim. This way it is possible to go
                        back/forward in the help files using swipe (but this _only_ applies to
                        help files, so swipe can still be bound to whatever in other buffers).
                        I just tried it out and it makes navigating the help a lot more
                        pleasant! Comments?

                        I also noticed that the swipe key will affect the "focused" view
                        instead of the one that the mouse cursor is over which feels a bit
                        unintuitive. I'll put it on my todo to fix this. Uh, and swiping in
                        cmdline mode inserts <SwipeXXX> into the cmdline...annoying, will fix
                        this too.

                        Björn

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                      • Steven Michalske
                        ... This is a matter of taste, and depends on the action i d say. might there be a setting for focus follows, or focused? Focus follows mouse is on of the
                        Message 11 of 18 , Sep 2, 2010
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                          On Sep 2, 2010, at 7:54 AM, björn wrote:

                          > On 2 September 2010 13:31, Mark Santcroos wrote:
                          >>> Le 1 sept. 2010 à 16:57, björn a écrit :
                          >>
                          >> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 23:05, Vincent Berthoux <twinside@...> wrote:
                          >>> What about this commands :
                          >>> nnoremap <SwipeLeft> gt
                          >>> nnoremap <SwipeRight> gT
                          >>>
                          >>> this way, the swipe allow us to switch around the opened tabs, which quite fit the gesture idea.
                          >>
                          >> I fully support this usage from Vincent, it was exactly what I had in
                          >> mind at the time and I like it already.
                          >> It is confirming with my Firefox tab switching. And it is really
                          >> faster than clicking the tab if you are browsing through text and you
                          >> are not near the top.
                          >
                          > Ok! Still not my cup of tea though. :-)
                          >
                          > I did however think of something that I am considering to make a
                          > MacVim default mapping, namely:
                          >
                          > nmap <buffer> <SwipeLeft> :po<CR>
                          > nmap <buffer> <SwipeRight> :ta<CR>
                          >
                          > in $VIMRUNTIME/ftpluging/help.vim. This way it is possible to go
                          > back/forward in the help files using swipe (but this _only_ applies to
                          > help files, so swipe can still be bound to whatever in other buffers).
                          > I just tried it out and it makes navigating the help a lot more
                          > pleasant! Comments?
                          >
                          > I also noticed that the swipe key will affect the "focused" view
                          > instead of the one that the mouse cursor is over which feels a bit
                          > unintuitive. I'll put it on my todo to fix this.

                          This is a matter of taste, and depends on the action i'd say. might there be a setting for focus follows, or focused?
                          Focus follows mouse is on of the features that I sorely miss from my unix days. I know that I liked the configurability of it ignored the desktop but other windows it would follow, and that would drive others nuts.

                          > Uh, and swiping in
                          > cmdline mode inserts <SwipeXXX> into the cmdline...annoying, will fix
                          > this too.
                          >
                          > Björn
                          >
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                        • Mark Santcroos
                          Hi, You need to check out from git. The change went in two days ago. Mark ... -- You received this message from the vim_mac maillist. Do not top-post! Type
                          Message 12 of 18 , Sep 3, 2010
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                            Hi,

                            You need to check out from git. The change went in two days ago.

                            Mark

                            On 2 sep. 2010, at 11:10, Keyan <key.vim@...> wrote:

                            >
                            > On 1 Sep 2010, at 22:57, björn wrote:
                            >
                            >> nmap <SwipeLeft> :bN<CR>
                            >> nmap <SwipeRight> :bn<CR>
                            >
                            > hi,
                            >
                            > this sounds like a cool feature, but unfortunately they dont seem to work for me. i tried with my magic mouse and with the touchpad.
                            >
                            > i am currently using MacVim
                            >
                            > :version
                            > VIM - Vi IMproved 7.3 (2010 Aug 15, compiled Aug 15 2010 22:03:01)
                            >
                            > regards,
                            > keyan
                            >
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                          • Keyan
                            thanks, my 2 cent opionen: i heavily use buffers, and don t use tabs at all. so i like the first proposed option of switching buffers by default. on the other
                            Message 13 of 18 , Sep 3, 2010
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                              thanks,

                              my 2 cent opionen: i heavily use buffers, and don't use tabs at all. so i like the first proposed option of switching buffers by default. on the other hand, i don't mind configuring it myself.

                              cheers,
                              keyan



                              On 3 Sep 2010, at 11:11, Mark Santcroos wrote:

                              > Hi,
                              >
                              > You need to check out from git. The change went in two days ago.
                              >
                              > Mark
                              >
                              > On 2 sep. 2010, at 11:10, Keyan <key.vim@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >>
                              >> On 1 Sep 2010, at 22:57, björn wrote:
                              >>
                              >>> nmap <SwipeLeft> :bN<CR>
                              >>> nmap <SwipeRight> :bn<CR>
                              >>
                              >> hi,
                              >>
                              >> this sounds like a cool feature, but unfortunately they dont seem to work for me. i tried with my magic mouse and with the touchpad.
                              >>
                              >> i am currently using MacVim
                              >>
                              >> :version
                              >> VIM - Vi IMproved 7.3 (2010 Aug 15, compiled Aug 15 2010 22:03:01)
                              >>
                              >> regards,
                              >> keyan
                              >>
                              >> --
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                            • David Patrick Henderson
                              I have to question the use of gesture input in a text editor. What is the purpose and how does it improve user interaction/experience? Other than swiping to
                              Message 14 of 18 , Sep 3, 2010
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                                I have to question the use of gesture input in a text editor. What is the purpose and how does it improve user interaction/experience? Other than swiping to change buffers or tabs, there is no seeming natural fit for gestures that make sense. So the question is, other than coolness how does this interaction improve the user's experience with vim? I, for one, am not at all certain how gestures would improve or increase my productivity in vim. Let us not forget the purpose of vim is as an editor of text, so I ask, do gestures in fact bring an improvement to editing in vim or are they a feature for feature's sake?

                                Dave Henderson
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                                -- C. A. R. "Tony" Hoare

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                              • dacresni
                                I was about to ask the same thing, isn t its purpose to reduce interruptions of keyboard use for the mouse. (they say every time you move your hand from the
                                Message 15 of 18 , Sep 3, 2010
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                                  I was about to ask the same thing, isn't its purpose to reduce
                                  interruptions of keyboard use for the mouse. (they say every time you
                                  move your hand from the keyboard to the mouse God kills a hamster)

                                  On Sep 3, 9:33 am, David Patrick Henderson <dp.chaoswe...@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > I have to question the use of gesture input in a text editor. What is the purpose and how does it improve user interaction/experience? Other than swiping to change buffers or tabs, there is no seeming natural fit forgesturesthat make sense. So the question is, other than coolness how does this interaction improve the user's experience with vim? I, for one, am not at all certain howgestureswould improve or increase my productivity in vim. Let us not forget the purpose of vim is as an editor of text, so I ask, dogesturesin fact bring an improvement to editing in vim or are they a feature for feature's sake?
                                  >
                                  > Dave Henderson
                                  > --
                                  > "There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult."
                                  >     -- C. A. R. "Tony" Hoare

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                                • Keyan
                                  i am a mac book pro user, and i do not always use an external keyboard and mouse. the touchpad is easily reached while editing, and without me needing to move
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Sep 3, 2010
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                                    i am a mac book pro user, and i do not always use an external keyboard and mouse. the touchpad is easily reached while editing, and without me needing to move my hand too much. so i would consider it a nice feature to switch e.g. between buffers.

                                    On 3 Sep 2010, at 16:37, dacresni wrote:

                                    > I was about to ask the same thing, isn't its purpose to reduce
                                    > interruptions of keyboard use for the mouse. (they say every time you
                                    > move your hand from the keyboard to the mouse God kills a hamster)
                                    >
                                    > On Sep 3, 9:33 am, David Patrick Henderson <dp.chaoswe...@...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    >> I have to question the use of gesture input in a text editor. What is the purpose and how does it improve user interaction/experience? Other than swiping to change buffers or tabs, there is no seeming natural fit forgesturesthat make sense. So the question is, other than coolness how does this interaction improve the user's experience with vim? I, for one, am not at all certain howgestureswould improve or increase my productivity in vim. Let us not forget the purpose of vim is as an editor of text, so I ask, dogesturesin fact bring an improvement to editing in vim or are they a feature for feature's sake?
                                    >>
                                    >> Dave Henderson
                                    >> --
                                    >> "There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult."
                                    >> -- C. A. R. "Tony" Hoare
                                    >
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                                  • björn
                                    On 3 September 2010 16:33, David Patrick Henderson ... I agree: the rotate/pinch gestures do not make much sense and I am leaning towards deprecating them
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Sep 3, 2010
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                                      On 3 September 2010 16:33, David Patrick Henderson
                                      <dp.chaoswerks@...> wrote:
                                      > I have to question the use of gesture input in a text editor. What is the purpose and how does it improve user interaction/experience? Other than swiping to change buffers or tabs, there is no seeming natural fit for gestures that make sense. So the question is, other than coolness how does this interaction improve the user's experience with vim? I, for one, am not at all certain how gestures would improve or increase my productivity in vim. Let us not forget the purpose of vim is as an editor of text, so I ask, do gestures in fact bring an improvement to editing in vim or are they a feature for feature's sake?

                                      I agree: the rotate/pinch gestures do not make much sense and I am
                                      leaning towards deprecating them (partly also because they generate
                                      input events continuously as you move your fingers which is not good
                                      for key mappings). I only included these in the patch so that people
                                      could try it out and give me some feedback.

                                      As for the swipe gesture: as soon as there is some kind of hyperlink
                                      system I expect to be able to swipe left/right to go back/forward. I
                                      think this makes for a perfect fit for navigating Vim's help.

                                      Björn

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