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RE: Replying to messages

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  • John Beckett
    ... I understand that reminders can be even more irritating than people who don t follow local customs, but given Björn s endorsement I will occasionally post
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 2, 2009
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      björn wrote:
      >> On vim_use, I regularly post a slightly friendly reminder to
      >> top-posters that bottom posting is the convention:
      >> http://groups.google.com/group/vim_use/web/vim-information
      >
      > I for one would appreciate your friendly reminders (indeed, I
      > try to nudge people every now and then myself). This top
      > posting business certainly makes my life harder and my hope
      > was that since I respond to most MacVim issues people would
      > respect my wishes, but I am guessing that most people simply
      > are not aware of the rules/guidelines on this list (since
      > they are nowhere clearly stated...although in my experience
      > not many people read such things anyway...ah well).

      I understand that reminders can be even more irritating than
      people who don't follow local customs, but given Björn's
      endorsement I will occasionally post my notice.

      I also appreciate what Derek said in another message, and I
      would just like to say that I only post the notices because the
      regulars in vim_use have asked for them.

      Re the spam message (I don't want to lengthen that thread by
      replying there): I got confirmation that I had clicked the
      "spam" button because when I went to investigate the spammer, I
      found that they were banned on vim_mac (which happens when I
      click "spam"), but there were 8 other Google Groups (not related
      to Vim) where the same message appeared. I hope the folks here
      are not as naive as in some of the other lists: I actually saw
      someone REPLY to the spam just to let the spammer know that
      something didn't quite work when they went to play the flash on
      the spammer's website!!!

      OMG folks, please never click anything in an email; the spammers
      don't want only your eyes, they want to own your computer so
      they can utilise your Internet connection by turning your box
      into a zombie.

      John


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    • Etienne B. Roesch
      Hi Andy! Not to worry, my question was not sarcasm. I joined vim_mac a few days ago, and was genuinely interested in both the theory of top/bottom responding
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 3, 2009
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        Hi Andy!

        Not to worry, my question was not sarcasm. I joined vim_mac a few days
        ago, and was genuinely interested in both the theory of top/bottom
        responding AND the local custom.

        Reading your explanation, I realised that I am myself more of a bottom
        poster, but that in certain occasions - when the thread contains only
        one main self-contained point - I naturally switch to top posting, ..
        as you can see.

        Anyway, I realise this is a bit off topic, so I'll stop here. I am in
        favour of reminders if necessary, and I would find it useful if
        newcomers were sent a description of the so-called local custom upon
        joining the group. Maybe post it online somewhere? Is there a website
        for the list?

        Thank you for your response!

        ~Etienne


        Le 3 sept. 09 à 01:40, Andy Michaels a écrit :

        >
        >> This is all very interesting, but as I am new on the list, I am not
        >> sure what you mean by top/bottom posting. Can I ask for a quick
        >> explanation? Thanks much!
        >>
        >> ~e
        >
        > Hi Etienne...
        >
        > Assuming your message wasn't sarcasm, top posting refers to replying
        > to a message with your response on top:
        >
        >
        > Your response
        >
        >>> original message
        >
        >
        > Bottom posting is the opposite:
        >
        >
        >>> original message
        >
        > Your response.
        >
        >
        > Or, as you'll sometimes see, bottom posters put their response inline
        > with the original post:
        >
        >
        >>> original post point 1
        >
        > Your response 1
        >
        >>> original post point 2
        >
        > Your response 2
        >
        > etc.
        >
        > In very long threads, the thread is much more easily read if bottom
        > posting is followed, because you read the thread from top to bottom,
        > rather than from bottom up,
        >
        > Hope that helps! If your response was sarcasm, then please ignore
        > this message!
        >
        > -Andy
        >
        > >


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      • John Beckett
        ... In principle, there are pages and files at: http://groups.google.com/group/vim_mac However, these are changable only by managers because spammers
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 3, 2009
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          Etienne B. Roesch wrote:
          > Anyway, I realise this is a bit off topic, so I'll stop here.
          > I am in favour of reminders if necessary, and I would find it
          > useful if newcomers were sent a description of the so-called
          > local custom upon joining the group. Maybe post it online
          > somewhere? Is there a website for the list?

          In principle, there are "pages" and "files" at:
          http://groups.google.com/group/vim_mac

          However, these are changable only by managers because spammers
          totally abused the system (one common trick being to edit a
          valid link to a page, by changing the link target to an attack
          page while keeping the descriptive text unchanged).

          If anyone wants the page updated, let me know.

          There is one page on the vim_use group that has general stuff,
          and I will take this opportunity to post my standard message:

          Reminder to everyone: Please bottom post on this list. Quote a
          small (relevant) part of the message you are replying to, and
          put your text underneath.

          See the list guidelines:
          http://groups.google.com/group/vim_use/web/vim-information

          John


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        • Tony Mechelynck
          On Sep 3, 2:42 pm, John Beckett wrote: [...] ... I know the general lines, but I just went there to read it again attentively.
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 21, 2009
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            On Sep 3, 2:42 pm, "John Beckett" <johnb.beck...@...> wrote:
            [...]
            > There is one page on the vim_use group that has general stuff,
            > and I will take this opportunity to post my standard message:
            >
            > Reminder to everyone: Please bottom post on this list. Quote a
            > small (relevant) part of the message you are replying to, and
            > put your text underneath.
            >
            > See the list guidelines:http://groups.google.com/group/vim_use/web/vim-information
            >
            > John

            I know the general lines, but I just went there to read it again
            attentively. (People, it's worth it.)

            The last line made me LOL:

            «If your expensive gadget can't bottom post, wait until you can find
            a computer.»

            though I would maybe not have gone that far. For short posts (about as
            long as an SMS), including thank-you notes (whose utility is dubious
            anyway) top- vs. bottom-posting doesn't matter much to me. The longer
            the quote or the longer the reply, the more trimming and ordering
            (question _then_ answer, or question then answer then reply to the
            answer, etc.) are important I'd say.

            Hm, thinking of it (and of how I'm replying in vim_mac, to which I'm
            subscribed in "digest" mode, unlike vim_use, vim_dev and vim_multibyte
            which are sent in full to my inbox), maybe I would have said:

            «If your expensive gadget can't bottom post in email, have it (or
            find something that can) browse the Google Groups and their web
            interface.»

            I've heard that some handheld devices include true browsers nowadays,
            so why not use that, if you have to reply to the vim-list while
            waiting for the bus to arrive? ;-)


            Best regards,
            Tony.
            --
            Abandon the search for Truth; settle for a good fantasy.

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