Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Replying to messages

Expand Messages
  • Etienne B. Roesch
    Hi all, This is all very interesting, but as I am new on the list, I am not sure what you mean by top/bottom posting. Can I ask for a quick explanation? Thanks
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 2, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi all,

      This is all very interesting, but as I am new on the list, I am not
      sure what you mean by top/bottom posting. Can I ask for a quick
      explanation? Thanks much!

      ~e


      Le 2 sept. 09 à 14:14, björn a écrit :

      >
      > 2009/9/2 John Beckett:
      >>
      >> While I'm ranting on mailing list management issues, does anyone
      >> want to offer an opinion about top/bottom posting?
      >>
      >> On vim_use, I regularly post a slightly friendly reminder to
      >> top-posters that bottom posting is the convention:
      >> http://groups.google.com/group/vim_use/web/vim-information
      >>
      >> I notice that top posters are becoming more prevalent in
      >> vim_mac. While I have no concern about how vim_mac runs, it
      >> occurs to me that some of the regulars here might want to
      >> express an opinion.
      >
      > Hi John,
      >
      > I for one would appreciate your friendly reminders (indeed, I try to
      > nudge people every now and then myself). This top posting business
      > certainly makes my life harder and my hope was that since I respond to
      > most MacVim issues people would respect my wishes, but I am guessing
      > that most people simply are not aware of the rules/guidelines on this
      > list (since they are nowhere clearly stated...although in my
      > experience not many people read such things anyway...ah well).
      >
      > Anyway, I'll certainly keep responding to posts no matter what the
      > poster's posting style. It does help me a lot though if people
      > clearly state what it is they are responding to and those who top-post
      > seldom do. Obviously this is only a problem on longer threads, so a
      > quick top-post to a tiny thread with only one specific issue is not a
      > big deal to me.
      >
      > Björn
      >
      > >


      --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
      You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
      For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
      -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
    • Jeff Horn
      On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Etienne B. ... Touché. ... -- Jeffrey Horn PhD Student in Economics George Mason University (704) 271-4797 jhorn@gmu.edu
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 2, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Etienne B.
        Roesch<etienne.roesch@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hi all,
        >
        > This is all very interesting, but as I am new on the list, I am not
        > sure what you mean by top/bottom posting. Can I ask for a quick
        > explanation? Thanks much!
        >
        > ~e

        Touché.

        >
        > Le 2 sept. 09 à 14:14, björn a écrit :
        >
        >>
        >> 2009/9/2 John Beckett:
        >>>
        >>> While I'm ranting on mailing list management issues, does anyone
        >>> want to offer an opinion about top/bottom posting?
        >>>
        >>> On vim_use, I regularly post a slightly friendly reminder to
        >>> top-posters that bottom posting is the convention:
        >>> http://groups.google.com/group/vim_use/web/vim-information
        >>>
        >>> I notice that top posters are becoming more prevalent in
        >>> vim_mac. While I have no concern about how vim_mac runs, it
        >>> occurs to me that some of the regulars here might want to
        >>> express an opinion.
        >>
        >> Hi John,
        >>
        >> I for one would appreciate your friendly reminders (indeed, I try to
        >> nudge people every now and then myself).  This top posting business
        >> certainly makes my life harder and my hope was that since I respond to
        >> most MacVim issues people would respect my wishes, but I am guessing
        >> that most people simply are not aware of the rules/guidelines on this
        >> list (since they are nowhere clearly stated...although in my
        >> experience not many people read such things anyway...ah well).
        >>
        >> Anyway, I'll certainly keep responding to posts no matter what the
        >> poster's posting style.  It does help me a lot though if people
        >> clearly state what it is they are responding to and those who top-post
        >> seldom do.  Obviously this is only a problem on longer threads, so a
        >> quick top-post to a tiny thread with only one specific issue is not a
        >> big deal to me.
        >>
        >> Björn
        >>
        >> >
        >
        >
        > >
        >



        --
        Jeffrey Horn
        PhD Student in Economics
        George Mason University

        (704) 271-4797
        jhorn@...
        jrhorn424@...

        --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
        You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
        For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
        -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
      • Andy Michaels
        ... Hi Etienne... Assuming your message wasn t sarcasm, top posting refers to replying to a message with your response on top: Your response ... Your response.
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 2, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          > This is all very interesting, but as I am new on the list, I am not
          > sure what you mean by top/bottom posting. Can I ask for a quick
          > explanation? Thanks much!
          >
          > ~e

          Hi Etienne...

          Assuming your message wasn't sarcasm, top posting refers to replying
          to a message with your response on top:


          Your response

          >> original message


          Bottom posting is the opposite:


          >> original message

          Your response.


          Or, as you'll sometimes see, bottom posters put their response inline
          with the original post:


          >> original post point 1

          Your response 1

          >> original post point 2

          Your response 2

          etc.

          In very long threads, the thread is much more easily read if bottom
          posting is followed, because you read the thread from top to bottom,
          rather than from bottom up,

          Hope that helps! If your response was sarcasm, then please ignore this message!

          -Andy

          --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
          You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
          For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
          -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
        • John Beckett
          ... I understand that reminders can be even more irritating than people who don t follow local customs, but given Björn s endorsement I will occasionally post
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 2, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            björn wrote:
            >> On vim_use, I regularly post a slightly friendly reminder to
            >> top-posters that bottom posting is the convention:
            >> http://groups.google.com/group/vim_use/web/vim-information
            >
            > I for one would appreciate your friendly reminders (indeed, I
            > try to nudge people every now and then myself). This top
            > posting business certainly makes my life harder and my hope
            > was that since I respond to most MacVim issues people would
            > respect my wishes, but I am guessing that most people simply
            > are not aware of the rules/guidelines on this list (since
            > they are nowhere clearly stated...although in my experience
            > not many people read such things anyway...ah well).

            I understand that reminders can be even more irritating than
            people who don't follow local customs, but given Björn's
            endorsement I will occasionally post my notice.

            I also appreciate what Derek said in another message, and I
            would just like to say that I only post the notices because the
            regulars in vim_use have asked for them.

            Re the spam message (I don't want to lengthen that thread by
            replying there): I got confirmation that I had clicked the
            "spam" button because when I went to investigate the spammer, I
            found that they were banned on vim_mac (which happens when I
            click "spam"), but there were 8 other Google Groups (not related
            to Vim) where the same message appeared. I hope the folks here
            are not as naive as in some of the other lists: I actually saw
            someone REPLY to the spam just to let the spammer know that
            something didn't quite work when they went to play the flash on
            the spammer's website!!!

            OMG folks, please never click anything in an email; the spammers
            don't want only your eyes, they want to own your computer so
            they can utilise your Internet connection by turning your box
            into a zombie.

            John


            --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
            You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
            For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
            -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
          • Etienne B. Roesch
            Hi Andy! Not to worry, my question was not sarcasm. I joined vim_mac a few days ago, and was genuinely interested in both the theory of top/bottom responding
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 3, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Andy!

              Not to worry, my question was not sarcasm. I joined vim_mac a few days
              ago, and was genuinely interested in both the theory of top/bottom
              responding AND the local custom.

              Reading your explanation, I realised that I am myself more of a bottom
              poster, but that in certain occasions - when the thread contains only
              one main self-contained point - I naturally switch to top posting, ..
              as you can see.

              Anyway, I realise this is a bit off topic, so I'll stop here. I am in
              favour of reminders if necessary, and I would find it useful if
              newcomers were sent a description of the so-called local custom upon
              joining the group. Maybe post it online somewhere? Is there a website
              for the list?

              Thank you for your response!

              ~Etienne


              Le 3 sept. 09 à 01:40, Andy Michaels a écrit :

              >
              >> This is all very interesting, but as I am new on the list, I am not
              >> sure what you mean by top/bottom posting. Can I ask for a quick
              >> explanation? Thanks much!
              >>
              >> ~e
              >
              > Hi Etienne...
              >
              > Assuming your message wasn't sarcasm, top posting refers to replying
              > to a message with your response on top:
              >
              >
              > Your response
              >
              >>> original message
              >
              >
              > Bottom posting is the opposite:
              >
              >
              >>> original message
              >
              > Your response.
              >
              >
              > Or, as you'll sometimes see, bottom posters put their response inline
              > with the original post:
              >
              >
              >>> original post point 1
              >
              > Your response 1
              >
              >>> original post point 2
              >
              > Your response 2
              >
              > etc.
              >
              > In very long threads, the thread is much more easily read if bottom
              > posting is followed, because you read the thread from top to bottom,
              > rather than from bottom up,
              >
              > Hope that helps! If your response was sarcasm, then please ignore
              > this message!
              >
              > -Andy
              >
              > >


              --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
              You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
              For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
              -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
            • John Beckett
              ... In principle, there are pages and files at: http://groups.google.com/group/vim_mac However, these are changable only by managers because spammers
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 3, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Etienne B. Roesch wrote:
                > Anyway, I realise this is a bit off topic, so I'll stop here.
                > I am in favour of reminders if necessary, and I would find it
                > useful if newcomers were sent a description of the so-called
                > local custom upon joining the group. Maybe post it online
                > somewhere? Is there a website for the list?

                In principle, there are "pages" and "files" at:
                http://groups.google.com/group/vim_mac

                However, these are changable only by managers because spammers
                totally abused the system (one common trick being to edit a
                valid link to a page, by changing the link target to an attack
                page while keeping the descriptive text unchanged).

                If anyone wants the page updated, let me know.

                There is one page on the vim_use group that has general stuff,
                and I will take this opportunity to post my standard message:

                Reminder to everyone: Please bottom post on this list. Quote a
                small (relevant) part of the message you are replying to, and
                put your text underneath.

                See the list guidelines:
                http://groups.google.com/group/vim_use/web/vim-information

                John


                --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
                You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
              • Tony Mechelynck
                On Sep 3, 2:42 pm, John Beckett wrote: [...] ... I know the general lines, but I just went there to read it again attentively.
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 21, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  On Sep 3, 2:42 pm, "John Beckett" <johnb.beck...@...> wrote:
                  [...]
                  > There is one page on the vim_use group that has general stuff,
                  > and I will take this opportunity to post my standard message:
                  >
                  > Reminder to everyone: Please bottom post on this list. Quote a
                  > small (relevant) part of the message you are replying to, and
                  > put your text underneath.
                  >
                  > See the list guidelines:http://groups.google.com/group/vim_use/web/vim-information
                  >
                  > John

                  I know the general lines, but I just went there to read it again
                  attentively. (People, it's worth it.)

                  The last line made me LOL:

                  «If your expensive gadget can't bottom post, wait until you can find
                  a computer.»

                  though I would maybe not have gone that far. For short posts (about as
                  long as an SMS), including thank-you notes (whose utility is dubious
                  anyway) top- vs. bottom-posting doesn't matter much to me. The longer
                  the quote or the longer the reply, the more trimming and ordering
                  (question _then_ answer, or question then answer then reply to the
                  answer, etc.) are important I'd say.

                  Hm, thinking of it (and of how I'm replying in vim_mac, to which I'm
                  subscribed in "digest" mode, unlike vim_use, vim_dev and vim_multibyte
                  which are sent in full to my inbox), maybe I would have said:

                  «If your expensive gadget can't bottom post in email, have it (or
                  find something that can) browse the Google Groups and their web
                  interface.»

                  I've heard that some handheld devices include true browsers nowadays,
                  so why not use that, if you have to reply to the vim-list while
                  waiting for the bus to arrive? ;-)


                  Best regards,
                  Tony.
                  --
                  Abandon the search for Truth; settle for a good fantasy.

                  --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
                  You received this message from the "vim_mac" maillist.
                  For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
                  -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.