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Re: [videoblogging] early days, blogs in different society and vogma manifesto

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  • Kath O'Donnell
    oh & there s video vortex now too (but it s more recent than below) http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/videovortex_listcultures.org 2009/12/3 Kath
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 2, 2009
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      oh & there's video vortex now too (but it's more recent than below)
      http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/videovortex_listcultures.org


      2009/12/3 Kath O'Donnell <aliak77@...>

      > there was also a list called vlogtheory too
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vlogtheory which might have some discussions
      > you'd be interested in
      > I think there was another? but maybe I've forgotten
      >



      --
      http://www.aliak.com
      http://www.brisbanedancepartiesarchive.com


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Kirstin
      Hi Jenn, Nice to meet you! As a big fan of Ehrensenf, I m curious: what other videoprogram-type vlogs are popular in Germany? Best, Kirstin
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 2, 2009
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        Hi Jenn, Nice to meet you! As a big fan of Ehrensenf, I'm curious: what
        other videoprogram-type vlogs are popular in Germany? Best, Kirstin
        http://www.digest.tv <http://www.digest.tv>
         http://www.twitter.com/kirstinbutler
        <http://www.twitter.com/kirstinbutler>  
        --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "elaluca11" <mail@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thanks a lot, Jay and Irina!
        >
        > I had checked the first 20 messages from the beginning of this group
        before I signed in. Really interesting, not only because it's already 5
        years old.
        >
        > I agree, from 2005 on the Web-TV-community changes a lot because of
        YouTube. I divide the Web-TV-development in three parts: from 1993 until
        2000 with pseudo.com, DEN and webisodes, 2000 until 2005 and the
        YouTube-era until today.
        >
        > Actually, there are not so many German-speaking vlogs. Most formats
        tend to a genre I call videoprogram (those I am concentrating on), they
        are more a semi-professional produced show or magazine (like
        Rocketboom).
        > One quite famous videoblog of the scene just gave up: She
        (Schnutingers Netrzkabarett) was bashed because of acting in a
        commercial . However, in Germany there are rather videoblogs of
        prominent people than those of average citizens: like Angela Merkel's
        videoblog
        http://www.bundeskanzlerin.de/Webs/BK/De/Mediathek/Videos/videos.html
        (it's stiff and a kind of deadpan but unintentionally funny), the former
        videoblog of a famous show master (the German David Letterman: Harald
        Schmidt) or one blog of a German journalist:
        http://www.spiegel.de/video/video-36686.html.
        >
        >
        > Bye
        > Jenn
        >
        > P.S. Irina, I'll check Geek Entertainment TV out! Thanks for it.
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Irina irinaski@ wrote:
        > >
        > > hi jennifer
        > >
        > > i am happy to help u as well
        > >
        > > i am not like steve or jay from 2004
        > > but i am from 2005 lol (november, honestly)
        > >
        > > we are still producing it if u can imagine
        > >
        > > still wordpress plus blip.tv
        > >
        > > i have done many shows since then
        > >
        > > and just started a new one for an online newspaper in sf.
        > >
        > > irina slutsky
        > >
        > > On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Jay dedman jay.dedman@ wrote:
        > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > > I am excited about the discussions in this community and the
        potential of
        > > > so many people sharing thoughts about this topic!
        > > > > My first questions to you are:
        > > > > - Does someone know videoblogs founded from 2000 on (apart from
        Steve
        > > > Garfield and Adam Kontras), English- or German-speaking ones?
        > > >
        > > > You should look in the archives of this group, started in 2004.
        > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/messages/1?l=1
        > > > Here you will see how we were talking about "videoblogs" back
        then. Plenty
        > > > of debates over the concept, term, and technical implementation.
        This is
        > > > one
        > > > of the frist messages of this group:
        > > >
        > > > (Peter and I) have had long talks about videoblogging and wanted
        to bring
        > > > > other people into the conversation.
        > > > >
        > > > > The ability to put video on blogs seems amazing to us, but there
        seem to
        > > > be
        > > > > some obstacles.
        > > > > 1. Technically, the process takes too long.(capture, import,
        optimize,
        > > > > write some HTML, post).
        > > > > 2. existing servers don't allow much bandwidth and storage
        space. You'll
        > > > > either get screwed becasue too mnay people watch your posts, or
        you have
        > > > to
        > > > > earse your archive video because youre out of space.
        > > > > 3. what is the language of videoblogging? is it little movies?
        or moments
        > > > > from your life?
        > > > >
        > > > > We believe that if we get interested people together, we'll
        answer all
        > > > > these questions.
        > > > > So this is the beginning.
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > When this group started, there were only a few people who I found
        that were
        > > > consciously posting video to blogs. Like Steve Garfield or Adrian
        Miles in
        > > > Melbourne (http://vogmae.net.au/). Most people before 2004 seem to
        have
        > > > posted video as an experiment as a one-off, were doing live video
        > > > streaming,
        > > > posted video to html pages (not blogs) so weren't easily
        searchable, or
        > > > erased their archives.
        > > >
        > > > Here are some of the early folks in this group as seen from
        Videoblogging
        > > > Week 2004.
        > > > http://www.solitude.dk/archives/vog-week/
        > > >
        > > > In mid 2005, Youtube began....so by 2006 there were tens of
        thousands of
        > > > examples of videoblogs.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > > - How do you define videoblog currently? (Mostly, I have the
        feeling the
        > > > definition is blurred and quite a lot of different Web-TV-genres
        or types
        > > > are subsumed under the concept of videoblog.)
        > > >
        > > > Ill let others jump in here. This is a well-traveled debate in
        this group
        > > > that comes up every 6-8 months or so.
        > > >
        > > > By the way, I dont know many German videobloggers (maybe just
        Joel?
        > > > http://joelart.blogspot.com/). In this group we have plenty of
        folks from
        > > > Europe (see http://www.vlogeurope.com/) but no Germans. What's the
        state
        > > > of
        > > > videoblogging in Germany in your opinion?
        > > >
        > > > Jay
        > > >
        > > > --
        > > > http://ryanishungry.com
        > > > http://jaydedman.com
        > > > http://twitter.com/jaydedman
        > > > 917 371 6790
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --
        > > http://geekentertainment.tv
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jenna
        Wow! That s a lot of input! Thanks a lot to you, that s great for my research. ... Within my doctorate Adrian s manifesto is going to get quite some attention
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
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          Wow! That's a lot of input! Thanks a lot to you, that's great for my research.

          @Jay:

          >Yes, Adrian Miles was one of the first members of the group. We
          >discussed his Vogma Manifesto (http://vogmae.net.au/drupal/vog/tbd),
          >though I dont think he found the most responsive audience to his
          >academic leanings.

          Within my doctorate Adrian's manifesto is going to get quite
          some attention in order to discuss the form, the style, the motivation
          and the content of videoblogs.

          >One way is to see people in the United States as narcissistic. Very
          >very true in many ways. But I like to think that many of us are more
          >open and craving community that was stripped out of US society the
          >past century. It might not always come across in healthy ways, but
          >"open" makes more sense than "narcissistic". Making it up as we go
          >along. Tear down the castles.

          I see, my statement was not written precisely and my sentences can be misunderstand easily even though I think you, Jay, understood me well. My text in clear: I assume that Germans slightly tend to judge a videoblogger as narcissistic (worldwide, not only in the US) Myself, I see videoblogs as a way of self-assurance, freedom of opinion, sometimes journalism and above all communication. And here I am coming back to your point, Jay, that means openness as well.

          One thing:
          >I think a lot of us just starting making stuff instead of figuring out
          >how to define it. But I have a side of me that likes to say "this is
          >this". Both are good at appropriate times.

          Perfect! I agree perfectly! Actually, that's the way I am – let's say – educated. At my university they insist of studying the practise (you can see my productions here: www.JenniferAhl.de – it's in German, but if you go just to the top, then to film you can just pick the first row of thumbnails you see and click on "ansehen" – this film is without speech) and the theory. In short terms: Synergetic effects of that combination. There is no other way for my work, I always consider both sides of film and television even if the main focus lays on one of it.

          Bye – and hope everything is understandable
          Jenna


          --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote:
          >
          > > Thanks a lot for forwarding my email (to Joly - who?) and telling a bit about the early days. It's really helpful for my research because I hadn't been interested in web-videos at that time. Actually, I hadn't known about it before there was a local offer (just a >platform with videos) for the town I lived in.
          >
          > Joly started Punkcast.com and has good stories recording NYC punk
          > shows in audio/video starting in late 90's.
          > Good article about him:
          > http://www.villagevoice.com/2003-10-28/news/bootlegger-s-banquet/1
          >
          > > General, web-tv is not too famous in Germany. Mostly, I have the feeling it's still an American trend (anyway, especially in tech-stuff, Europe is round about 4 years behind the US they say)...
          > > That's a really, really good question for social science or cultural anthropology if and why citizens of some societies are more interested in showing their everyday life…
          > > But on the other hand the mainstream reality tv is quite famous in Germany, even though I think it goes down in some time. (It has been so long the favourite of the tv networks... )
          > > But blogs are different. I think for a society blog and videoblog are a good way for real self-assurance.
          > > Why is it less usual in Germany (assumed it is like that): Maybe blogs are associated with narcissism. Also, we have a more or less strict liability to criticism. So with a Videoblog you are really vulnerable.. Just spontaneous speculation! What do you think?
          >
          > One way is to see people in the United States as narcissistic. Very
          > very true in many ways. But I like to think that many of us are more
          > open and craving community that was stripped out of US society the
          > past century. It might not always come across in healthy ways, but
          > "open" makes more sense than "narcissistic". Making it up as we go
          > along. Tear down the castles.
          >
          > Peter Van Dijck, from Belgian, actually started this group when he
          > lived in NYC. He always told me that Americans were much more "in your
          > face" and he liked it.
          >
          > > Can you tell me if the vogma manifesto was discussed within this group? I haven't found a wide discussion about it. Strange, if I >had been there I would have had the necessity to discuss it in detail. A pity, five years too late ;-D.
          >
          > Yes, Adrian Miles was one of the first members of the group. We
          > discussed his Vogma Manifesto (http://vogmae.net.au/drupal/vog/tbd),
          > though I dont think he found the most responsive audience to his
          > academic leanings. We were (are?) a lot of riff raff. In 2005, Michael
          > Verdi made the Vlog Anarchy manifesto in response here
          > (http://michaelverdi.com/2005/02/20/vlog-anarchy/).
          >
          > I think a lot of us just starting making stuff instead of figuring out
          > how to define it. But I have a side of me that likes to say "this is
          > this". Both are good at appropriate times.
          >
          > There's another group that sprung out of this one that focuses on
          > dreamy tech and academic discussions:
          > http://groups.google.com/group/artists-in-the-cloud
          >
          > Jay
          >
          > --
          > http://ryanishungry.com
          > http://jaydedman.com
          > http://twitter.com/jaydedman
          > 917 371 6790
          >
        • Jenna
          Hi Kirstin, Ehrensenf is great, I really like it and actually I am going to analyse it within my thesis. - Another videoprogram is Buschka entdeckt
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 3, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Kirstin,

            Ehrensenf is great, I really like it and actually I am going to analyse it within my thesis.
            - Another videoprogram is "Buschka entdeckt Deutschland" (round about 30 minutes one guy walks through German cities without any script): http://www.buschka-entdeckt.de/
            - There is www.rebell.tv but it's from Suisse.
            - Kavka vs. The Web: http://www.myspace.com/kavkavstheweb (Kavka is a German journalist)
            - http://www.robvegas.de/
            - http://www.elektrischer-reporter.de/ (cooperation with a tv network, ZDF)
            - http://www.balconytv.com/hamburg/heutige-show.aspx (music-show on a small balcony in Hamburg)

            ...there are a lot.
            But I can't give you hardly any "real" videoblog apart from prominent people.

            Tell me about your impressions sometime.

            Jenna

            --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Kirstin" <kirstinbutler@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Jenn, Nice to meet you! As a big fan of Ehrensenf, I'm curious: what
            > other videoprogram-type vlogs are popular in Germany? Best, Kirstin
            > http://www.digest.tv <http://www.digest.tv>
            >  http://www.twitter.com/kirstinbutler
            > <http://www.twitter.com/kirstinbutler>  
            > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "elaluca11" <mail@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Thanks a lot, Jay and Irina!
            > >
            > > I had checked the first 20 messages from the beginning of this group
            > before I signed in. Really interesting, not only because it's already 5
            > years old.
            > >
            > > I agree, from 2005 on the Web-TV-community changes a lot because of
            > YouTube. I divide the Web-TV-development in three parts: from 1993 until
            > 2000 with pseudo.com, DEN and webisodes, 2000 until 2005 and the
            > YouTube-era until today.
            > >
            > > Actually, there are not so many German-speaking vlogs. Most formats
            > tend to a genre I call videoprogram (those I am concentrating on), they
            > are more a semi-professional produced show or magazine (like
            > Rocketboom).
            > > One quite famous videoblog of the scene just gave up: She
            > (Schnutingers Netrzkabarett) was bashed because of acting in a
            > commercial . However, in Germany there are rather videoblogs of
            > prominent people than those of average citizens: like Angela Merkel's
            > videoblog
            > http://www.bundeskanzlerin.de/Webs/BK/De/Mediathek/Videos/videos.html
            > (it's stiff and a kind of deadpan but unintentionally funny), the former
            > videoblog of a famous show master (the German David Letterman: Harald
            > Schmidt) or one blog of a German journalist:
            > http://www.spiegel.de/video/video-36686.html.
            > >
            > >
            > > Bye
            > > Jenn
            > >
            > > P.S. Irina, I'll check Geek Entertainment TV out! Thanks for it.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Irina irinaski@ wrote:
            > > >
            > > > hi jennifer
            > > >
            > > > i am happy to help u as well
            > > >
            > > > i am not like steve or jay from 2004
            > > > but i am from 2005 lol (november, honestly)
            > > >
            > > > we are still producing it if u can imagine
            > > >
            > > > still wordpress plus blip.tv
            > > >
            > > > i have done many shows since then
            > > >
            > > > and just started a new one for an online newspaper in sf.
            > > >
            > > > irina slutsky
            > > >
            > > > On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Jay dedman jay.dedman@ wrote:
            > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > > I am excited about the discussions in this community and the
            > potential of
            > > > > so many people sharing thoughts about this topic!
            > > > > > My first questions to you are:
            > > > > > - Does someone know videoblogs founded from 2000 on (apart from
            > Steve
            > > > > Garfield and Adam Kontras), English- or German-speaking ones?
            > > > >
            > > > > You should look in the archives of this group, started in 2004.
            > > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/messages/1?l=1
            > > > > Here you will see how we were talking about "videoblogs" back
            > then. Plenty
            > > > > of debates over the concept, term, and technical implementation.
            > This is
            > > > > one
            > > > > of the frist messages of this group:
            > > > >
            > > > > (Peter and I) have had long talks about videoblogging and wanted
            > to bring
            > > > > > other people into the conversation.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > The ability to put video on blogs seems amazing to us, but there
            > seem to
            > > > > be
            > > > > > some obstacles.
            > > > > > 1. Technically, the process takes too long.(capture, import,
            > optimize,
            > > > > > write some HTML, post).
            > > > > > 2. existing servers don't allow much bandwidth and storage
            > space. You'll
            > > > > > either get screwed becasue too mnay people watch your posts, or
            > you have
            > > > > to
            > > > > > earse your archive video because youre out of space.
            > > > > > 3. what is the language of videoblogging? is it little movies?
            > or moments
            > > > > > from your life?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > We believe that if we get interested people together, we'll
            > answer all
            > > > > > these questions.
            > > > > > So this is the beginning.
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > When this group started, there were only a few people who I found
            > that were
            > > > > consciously posting video to blogs. Like Steve Garfield or Adrian
            > Miles in
            > > > > Melbourne (http://vogmae.net.au/). Most people before 2004 seem to
            > have
            > > > > posted video as an experiment as a one-off, were doing live video
            > > > > streaming,
            > > > > posted video to html pages (not blogs) so weren't easily
            > searchable, or
            > > > > erased their archives.
            > > > >
            > > > > Here are some of the early folks in this group as seen from
            > Videoblogging
            > > > > Week 2004.
            > > > > http://www.solitude.dk/archives/vog-week/
            > > > >
            > > > > In mid 2005, Youtube began....so by 2006 there were tens of
            > thousands of
            > > > > examples of videoblogs.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > > - How do you define videoblog currently? (Mostly, I have the
            > feeling the
            > > > > definition is blurred and quite a lot of different Web-TV-genres
            > or types
            > > > > are subsumed under the concept of videoblog.)
            > > > >
            > > > > Ill let others jump in here. This is a well-traveled debate in
            > this group
            > > > > that comes up every 6-8 months or so.
            > > > >
            > > > > By the way, I dont know many German videobloggers (maybe just
            > Joel?
            > > > > http://joelart.blogspot.com/). In this group we have plenty of
            > folks from
            > > > > Europe (see http://www.vlogeurope.com/) but no Germans. What's the
            > state
            > > > > of
            > > > > videoblogging in Germany in your opinion?
            > > > >
            > > > > Jay
            > > > >
            > > > > --
            > > > > http://ryanishungry.com
            > > > > http://jaydedman.com
            > > > > http://twitter.com/jaydedman
            > > > > 917 371 6790
            > > > >
            > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --
            > > > http://geekentertainment.tv
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
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