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Open Video Ideas

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  • Michael Verdi
    I ve been working on some ideas for the Open Video Confrence (NYC June 19 - 20) and could use some feedback.
    Message 1 of 16 , May 29, 2009
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      I've been working on some ideas for the Open Video Confrence (NYC June
      19 - 20) and could use some feedback.
      http://reports.graymattergravy.com/2009/05/29/open-video/
      Thanks,
      Verdi

      --
      http://michaelverdi.com
    • Jay dedman
      ... its been very difficult to verbalize what we mean by Open Video . A video like this goes a long way to at least setting the right boundaries for
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 1, 2009
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        > I've been working on some ideas for the Open Video Confrence (NYC June
        > 19 - 20) and could use some feedback.
        > http://reports.graymattergravy.com/2009/05/29/open-video/

        its been very difficult to verbalize what we mean by "Open Video". A
        video like this goes a long way to at least setting the right
        boundaries for discussion.

        I hope there's a lot of people here who can come to the Open Video
        Conference. The biggest challenge we have is connecting the developers
        with the creators. i see a real disconnect in how developers think
        about what they're building for video creators...and the way video
        creators actually work.

        FCP, Avid, Premiere are such good video editing systems because they
        did years of research and user testing. So that's what we need to
        start doing.

        Jay



        --
        http://ryanishungry.com
        http://jaydedman.com
        http://twitter.com/jaydedman
        917 371 6790
      • Chris Hastings
        this video helps me focus on why the open video conversation is important. Verdi links us to the key root question: How can anyone make a video? What are the
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 1, 2009
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          this video helps me focus on why the open video conversation is
          important. Verdi links us to the key root question: How can anyone
          make a video? What are the tools that will allow anyone to make
          video ? I think he should talk more about the other side of
          Neverland.. what does this type of system enable. What are some
          examples he can show?
          On Jun 1, 2009, at 10:49 AM, Jay dedman wrote:

          >
          >
          > > I've been working on some ideas for the Open Video Confrence (NYC
          > June
          > > 19 - 20) and could use some feedback.
          > > http://reports.graymattergravy.com/2009/05/29/open-video/
          >
          > its been very difficult to verbalize what we mean by "Open Video". A
          > video like this goes a long way to at least setting the right
          > boundaries for discussion.
          >
          > I hope there's a lot of people here who can come to the Open Video
          > Conference. The biggest challenge we have is connecting the developers
          > with the creators. i see a real disconnect in how developers think
          > about what they're building for video creators...and the way video
          > creators actually work.
          >
          > FCP, Avid, Premiere are such good video editing systems because they
          > did years of research and user testing. So that's what we need to
          > start doing.
          >
          > Jay
          >
          > --
          > http://ryanishungry.com
          > http://jaydedman.com
          > http://twitter.com/jaydedman
          > 917 371 6790
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Michael Verdi
          Thanks Chris. That s a good focus. My plan for the conference is to have much of the presentation focus on examples - kind of like these imagined future web
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 1, 2009
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            Thanks Chris. That's a good focus. My plan for the conference is to
            have much of the presentation focus on examples - kind of like these
            imagined future web browsers
            <http://www.vimeo.com/1450211?pg=embed&sec=1450211>
            I'm forever encouraging people to get a Mac but that's unrealistic and
            also not the ideal solution. As much as I love my Mac, Apple is
            frustratingly slow to add specific functionality that I would find
            useful. And often when a 3rd party jumps in with a solution it's often
            Mac only (so much for collaboration). We really need a set of tools to
            use that are not delivered at the pleasure of one particular vendor.

            - Verdi

            On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Chris Hastings <chris3306@...> wrote:
            >  this video helps me focus on why the open video conversation is
            > important.  Verdi links us to the key root question: How can anyone
            > make a video? What are the tools that will allow anyone to make
            > video ?  I think he should talk more about the other side of
            > Neverland.. what does this type of system enable. What are some
            > examples he can show?
            > On Jun 1, 2009, at 10:49 AM, Jay dedman wrote:
            >
            >>
            >>
            >> > I've been working on some ideas for the Open Video Confrence (NYC
            >> June
            >> > 19 - 20) and could use some feedback.
            >> > http://reports.graymattergravy.com/2009/05/29/open-video/
            >>
            >> its been very difficult to verbalize what we mean by "Open Video". A
            >> video like this goes a long way to at least setting the right
            >> boundaries for discussion.
            >>
            >> I hope there's a lot of people here who can come to the Open Video
            >> Conference. The biggest challenge we have is connecting the developers
            >> with the creators. i see a real disconnect in how developers think
            >> about what they're building for video creators...and the way video
            >> creators actually work.
            >>
            >> FCP, Avid, Premiere are such good video editing systems because they
            >> did years of research and user testing. So that's what we need to
            >> start doing.
            >>
            >> Jay
            >>
            >> --
            >> http://ryanishungry.com
            >> http://jaydedman.com
            >> http://twitter.com/jaydedman
            >> 917 371 6790
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >



            --
            http://michaelverdi.com
          • Richard (Show) Hall
            (I posted this on the blog too). Great Video Michael, I ve been teaching this digital media class the last three semesters, and technology is a huge barrier to
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 6, 2009
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              (I posted this on the blog too).

              Great Video Michael,

              I've been teaching this digital media class the last three semesters, and
              technology is a huge barrier to creativity.

              First, we only have PCs, so we can't go with FCP, so we go with Premiere
              Pro, which is functionally find, but has all sorts of issues dealing with
              different types of files/codecs. I had to teach stuff like, if you have an
              .mp4 file, you must first convert it to .mov with quicktime, and sometimes
              the audio won't import so you have to export separately - etc.

              This doesn't even cover the always pragmatic issue of compression, disc
              space, and problems with the university's secure network and new adobe
              programs not working etc.

              It's so frustrating, and it would be so cool if there was one "video engine"
              as you describe, because, at least there would, hypothetically, only be one
              set of issues to deal with.

              I look forward to continuing this conversation.

              ...peace...richard

              p.s. If I want to subscribe to all Verdi videos, how would I do that?

              On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 9:45 PM, Michael Verdi <michaelverdi@...>wrote:

              >
              >
              > Thanks Chris. That's a good focus. My plan for the conference is to
              > have much of the presentation focus on examples - kind of like these
              > imagined future web browsers
              > <http://www.vimeo.com/1450211?pg=embed&sec=1450211>
              > I'm forever encouraging people to get a Mac but that's unrealistic and
              > also not the ideal solution. As much as I love my Mac, Apple is
              > frustratingly slow to add specific functionality that I would find
              > useful. And often when a 3rd party jumps in with a solution it's often
              > Mac only (so much for collaboration). We really need a set of tools to
              > use that are not delivered at the pleasure of one particular vendor.
              >
              > - Verdi
              >
              >
              > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Chris Hastings <chris3306@...<chris3306%40yahoo.com>>
              > wrote:
              > > this video helps me focus on why the open video conversation is
              > > important. Verdi links us to the key root question: How can anyone
              > > make a video? What are the tools that will allow anyone to make
              > > video ? I think he should talk more about the other side of
              > > Neverland.. what does this type of system enable. What are some
              > > examples he can show?
              > > On Jun 1, 2009, at 10:49 AM, Jay dedman wrote:
              > >
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> > I've been working on some ideas for the Open Video Confrence (NYC
              > >> June
              > >> > 19 - 20) and could use some feedback.
              > >> > http://reports.graymattergravy.com/2009/05/29/open-video/
              > >>
              > >> its been very difficult to verbalize what we mean by "Open Video". A
              > >> video like this goes a long way to at least setting the right
              > >> boundaries for discussion.
              > >>
              > >> I hope there's a lot of people here who can come to the Open Video
              > >> Conference. The biggest challenge we have is connecting the developers
              > >> with the creators. i see a real disconnect in how developers think
              > >> about what they're building for video creators...and the way video
              > >> creators actually work.
              > >>
              > >> FCP, Avid, Premiere are such good video editing systems because they
              > >> did years of research and user testing. So that's what we need to
              > >> start doing.
              > >>
              > >> Jay
              > >>
              > >> --
              > >> http://ryanishungry.com
              > >> http://jaydedman.com
              > >> http://twitter.com/jaydedman
              > >> 917 371 6790
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > --
              > http://michaelverdi.com
              >
              >



              --
              Richard (Show) Hall
              http://richardshow.org


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Heath
              ... Just use Sony Vegas Richard, it s much better.... :-) Heath Parks http://heathparks.com/blog1
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 8, 2009
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                --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Richard (Show) Hall" <richard@...> wrote:


                > I've been teaching this digital media class the last three >semesters, and
                > technology is a huge barrier to creativity.
                >
                > First, we only have PCs, so we can't go with FCP, so we go with >Premiere
                > Pro, which is functionally find, but has all sorts of issues dealing >with
                > different types of files/codecs.

                Just use Sony Vegas Richard, it's much better.... :-)

                Heath Parks
                http://heathparks.com/blog1
              • Richard Amirault
                ... From: Heath ... I ve used the consumer version of Sony Vegas for *years* ... it is a *very* capable and *very* stable program. Richard Amirault Boston,
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 8, 2009
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                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Heath"
                  >> I've been teaching this digital media class the last three >semesters,
                  >> and
                  >> technology is a huge barrier to creativity.
                  >>
                  >> First, we only have PCs, so we can't go with FCP, so we go with >Premiere
                  >> Pro, which is functionally find, but has all sorts of issues dealing
                  >> >with
                  >> different types of files/codecs.
                  >
                  > Just use Sony Vegas Richard, it's much better.... :-)

                  I've used the "consumer" version of Sony Vegas for *years* ... it is a
                  *very* capable and *very* stable program.

                  Richard Amirault
                  Boston, MA, USA
                  http://n1jdu.org
                  http://bostonfandom.org
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7hf9u2ZdlQ
                • Jason Daniels
                  Michael, I just watched this video again because what you are talking about is really important and I can t go to the Open Video Conference. Here are some
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jun 9, 2009
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                    Michael,
                    I just watched this video again because what you are talking about is really
                    important and I can't go to the Open Video Conference. Here are some
                    reactions to what you talked about.

                    1) The Open Web, open code, open codec, open source movement has so much
                    collective energy working towards it, nothing short of inspiring. The video
                    right in the browser with a specific video tag - wow!

                    2) So what if getting videos on the web involves a little voodoo? You have
                    to concede that the barrier for publishing video to the web has been lowered
                    substantially and that the whole process is fairly accessible - that is what
                    freevlogging is based on. I don't find the learning curve to be
                    excessivelly prohibitive - if a story needs to get to the web it gets to the
                    web. Yes, there are important stories that did not make it to the web - but
                    was that because the compression settings were too confusing? Some of the
                    producers I have worked with at public access TV stations would not be
                    deterred by something like that. Working with videomakers from halfway
                    around the world poses much more of a problem. That is a structural problem
                    not a technical problem. Voodoo is cool, and not everyone is a witch doctor
                    - what kind of village would that be?

                    3) When you are talking about cameras adopting an Open Video Engine, I think
                    of the lower end cameras. But later, when you talk about collaborative
                    workflow, bittorrent and p2p, the reference is to working in HD. Oh, that
                    gorgeous HD....I'm drooling.....and I also simply can't imagine a scenario
                    in which the big camera companies (sony, canon, jvc, panasonic) would ever
                    entertain the idea of opening up their proprietary codecs. In fact, they
                    seem to be moving in the entirely opposite direction where you buy a
                    proprietary camera, you get proprietary recording media and then you go into
                    a proprietary editing system - no problem, works great - it is just terribly
                    expensive. Maybe the low end couldbreak out with a stellar camera and maybe
                    that is what is needed. Finding a venture capitalist to back an Open Video
                    camera is one thing, but it is hard to envision the entire market going
                    upside down.

                    4) The idea of using an open source content management to enable an 'low res
                    (offline)' edit that could then be 'up res to HD (online)' through p2p is
                    just fantastic. Bandwidth is an issue, still, and I think the answer is to
                    look at what open systems might have some bandwidth. Local municpal
                    broadband projects might be looking for a way to jumpstart a community media
                    initiative. Sharing could happen at a local or regional level between
                    shared Institutional networks. This is a cultural pipeline that is the
                    working corridor for rich media under the Creative Commons. I am also
                    seeking to work with those who are reinventing public access through this
                    prism of Open Video.

                    Jason

                    On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Richard Amirault <ramirault@...>wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "Heath"
                    > >> I've been teaching this digital media class the last three >semesters,
                    > >> and
                    > >> technology is a huge barrier to creativity.
                    > >>
                    > >> First, we only have PCs, so we can't go with FCP, so we go with
                    > >Premiere
                    > >> Pro, which is functionally find, but has all sorts of issues dealing
                    > >> >with
                    > >> different types of files/codecs.
                    > >
                    > > Just use Sony Vegas Richard, it's much better.... :-)
                    >
                    > I've used the "consumer" version of Sony Vegas for *years* ... it is a
                    > *very* capable and *very* stable program.
                    >
                    > Richard Amirault
                    > Boston, MA, USA
                    > http://n1jdu.org
                    > http://bostonfandom.org
                    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7hf9u2ZdlQ
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jay dedman
                    Jason s thoughts are a good one since I also cant help think we re moving towards something more than just a free video editor. When I think of this Open
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jun 10, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Jason's thoughts are a good one since I also cant help think we're moving
                      towards something more than just a free video editor. When I think of this
                      "Open Video Engine", I think of something the director Guillermo del Toro
                      talked about inn the below post:
                      http://www.wired.com/entertainment/hollywood/magazine/17-06/mf_deltoro?currentPage=2

                      del Toro: In the next 10 years, we're going to see all the forms of
                      > entertainment�film, television, video, games, and print�melding into a
                      > single-platform "story engine." The Model T of this new platform is the PS3.
                      > The moment you connect creative output with a public story engine, a
                      > narrative can continue over a period of months or years. It's going to
                      > rewrite the rules of fiction.
                      >
                      > Wired: It sounds like you're talking about an entirely new form of
                      > storytelling.
                      >
                      > del Toro: Think about the way oral tradition became written word�how what
                      > we know about Achilles was written many, many years after it made its way
                      > around the world with different names and different types of heroes. That
                      > can happen when you allow content to keep propagating itself through
                      > different kinds of platforms and engines�when you permit it to be retold
                      > with a promiscuous form of mythology. You see it when people create their
                      > own avatars in games and transfigure their game worlds.
                      >

                      This vision has been spoken before, but I think a more open source approach
                      to a "storyengine" is needed. It's great that people and companies make
                      money creating tools, but the fanatical need to be proprietary is sucking
                      the oxygen out of the creative process. Verdi and I recently talked about
                      all the hours of our of lives have been wasted discussing, experimenting,
                      troubleshooting, and teaching how to work with video codecs. Time could be
                      spent on more creative things.

                      Im looking forward to seeing anyone here at
                      http://openvideoconference.org/next weekend. We'll have a table set up
                      so people can hang out and
                      experiment with all this HTML5 stuff.

                      Jay

                      On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 11:53 PM, Jason Daniels<jdcreativity@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Michael,
                      > I just watched this video again because what you are talking about is
                      really
                      > important and I can't go to the Open Video Conference. Here are some
                      > reactions to what you talked about.
                      >
                      > 1) The Open Web, open code, open codec, open source movement has so much
                      > collective energy working towards it, nothing short of inspiring. The
                      video
                      > right in the browser with a specific video tag - wow!
                      >
                      > 2) So what if getting videos on the web involves a little voodoo? You have
                      > to concede that the barrier for publishing video to the web has been
                      lowered
                      > substantially and that the whole process is fairly accessible - that is
                      what
                      > freevlogging is based on. I don't find the learning curve to be
                      > excessivelly prohibitive - if a story needs to get to the web it gets to
                      the
                      > web. Yes, there are important stories that did not make it to the web -
                      but
                      > was that because the compression settings were too confusing? Some of the
                      > producers I have worked with at public access TV stations would not be
                      > deterred by something like that. Working with videomakers from halfway
                      > around the world poses much more of a problem. That is a structural
                      problem
                      > not a technical problem. Voodoo is cool, and not everyone is a witch
                      doctor
                      > - what kind of village would that be?
                      >
                      > 3) When you are talking about cameras adopting an Open Video Engine, I
                      think
                      > of the lower end cameras. But later, when you talk about collaborative
                      > workflow, bittorrent and p2p, the reference is to working in HD. Oh, that
                      > gorgeous HD....I'm drooling.....and I also simply can't imagine a scenario
                      > in which the big camera companies (sony, canon, jvc, panasonic) would ever
                      > entertain the idea of opening up their proprietary codecs. In fact, they
                      > seem to be moving in the entirely opposite direction where you buy a
                      > proprietary camera, you get proprietary recording media and then you go
                      into
                      > a proprietary editing system - no problem, works great - it is just
                      terribly
                      > expensive. Maybe the low end couldbreak out with a stellar camera and
                      maybe
                      > that is what is needed. Finding a venture capitalist to back an Open Video
                      > camera is one thing, but it is hard to envision the entire market going
                      > upside down.
                      >
                      > 4) The idea of using an open source content management to enable an 'low
                      res
                      > (offline)' edit that could then be 'up res to HD (online)' through p2p is
                      > just fantastic. Bandwidth is an issue, still, and I think the answer is to
                      > look at what open systems might have some bandwidth. Local municpal
                      > broadband projects might be looking for a way to jumpstart a community
                      media
                      > initiative. Sharing could happen at a local or regional level between
                      > shared Institutional networks. This is a cultural pipeline that is the
                      > working corridor for rich media under the Creative Commons. I am also
                      > seeking to work with those who are reinventing public access through this
                      > prism of Open Video.
                      >
                      > Jason


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Michael Verdi
                      Hey Jason, Here s some more of what I m thinking. I spend a lot of time helping people get over the (thankfully, ever lowering) technical hurdles to getting
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jun 10, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hey Jason,
                        Here's some more of what I'm thinking.
                        I spend a lot of time helping people get over the (thankfully, ever
                        lowering) technical hurdles to getting things posted and that time
                        would be so much better spent helping people with the storytelling
                        voodoo. I would love for everyone to be a witch doctor in your
                        example, so we could stop focusing on how to be a witch doctor and
                        instead focus on being a great one.

                        As for codecs and cameras...
                        A great codec for the web is a start but it won't solve anything by
                        itself. As long as the stuff we shoot and edit is proprietary, the
                        open source editors will be just kid toys. HD is not just for the
                        expensive, high end cameras. You can buy cheap (<$500, some <$200)
                        consumer cameras right now that shoot 1080p. Imagine if there was a
                        great open source codec that could capture 1080p on an SD card. I
                        think we'd see more small manufactures taking chances with things like
                        the Flip camera - I'd love to see that! And those codecs that you
                        capture in are almost always crappy to edit with (at least the HD
                        ones) so we need a good editing codec. Imagine if we could all edit in
                        one codec. I could send you things that I've made and you could send
                        me your stuff and we wouldn't have to ask each other, "wait, what
                        editing program are you using?"
                        And you are right that the big companies aren't going to open their
                        stuff up. But they will add support for things if they become popular
                        enough (well maybe not MS).

                        And Jay,
                        Yes, I'd love a "story engine" but agree it would be a nightmare if
                        were locked into something like the PS3. But the idea of a common set
                        of standards to work with is where it's at. The ability to create
                        stuff with the tools of your choice and to watch/participate with the
                        tools of your choice would be awesome. Again, moving the conversation
                        away from the tech and hardware and on to art.

                        - Verdi

                        On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 9:27 AM, Jay dedman<jay.dedman@...> wrote:
                        > Jason's thoughts are a good one since I also cant help think we're moving
                        > towards something more than just a free video editor. When I think of this
                        > "Open Video Engine", I think of something the director Guillermo del Toro
                        > talked about inn the below post:
                        > http://www.wired.com/entertainment/hollywood/magazine/17-06/mf_deltoro?currentPage=2
                        >
                        >> del Toro:  In the next 10 years, we're going to see all the forms of
                        >> entertainment—film, television, video, games, and print—melding into a
                        >> single-platform "story engine." The Model T of this new platform is the PS3.
                        >> The moment you connect creative output with a public story engine, a
                        >> narrative can continue over a period of months or years. It's going to
                        >> rewrite the rules of fiction.
                        >>
                        >> Wired: It sounds like you're talking about an entirely new form of
                        >> storytelling.
                        >>
                        >> del Toro: Think about the way oral tradition became written word—how what
                        >> we know about Achilles was written many, many years after it made its way
                        >> around the world with different names and different types of heroes. That
                        >> can happen when you allow content to keep propagating itself through
                        >> different kinds of platforms and engines—when you permit it to be retold
                        >> with a promiscuous form of mythology. You see it when people create their
                        >> own avatars in games and transfigure their game worlds.
                        >
                        > This vision has been spoken before, but I think a more open source approach
                        > to a "storyengine" is needed. It's great that people and companies make
                        > money creating tools, but the fanatical need to be proprietary is sucking
                        > the oxygen out of the creative process. Verdi and I recently talked about
                        > all the hours of our of lives have been wasted discussing, experimenting,
                        > troubleshooting, and teaching how to work with video codecs. Time could be
                        > spent on more creative things.
                        >
                        > Im looking forward to seeing anyone here at http://openvideoconference.org/
                        > next weekend. We'll have a table set up so people can hang out and
                        > experiment with all this HTML5 stuff.
                        >
                        > Jay
                        >
                        > On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 11:53 PM, Jason Daniels<jdcreativity@...>
                        > wrote:
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Michael,
                        >> I just watched this video again because what you are talking about is
                        >> really
                        >> important and I can't go to the Open Video Conference. Here are some
                        >> reactions to what you talked about.
                        >>
                        >> 1) The Open Web, open code, open codec, open source movement has so much
                        >> collective energy working towards it, nothing short of inspiring. The
                        >> video
                        >> right in the browser with a specific video tag - wow!
                        >>
                        >> 2) So what if getting videos on the web involves a little voodoo? You have
                        >> to concede that the barrier for publishing video to the web has been
                        >> lowered
                        >> substantially and that the whole process is fairly accessible - that is
                        >> what
                        >> freevlogging is based on. I don't find the learning curve to be
                        >> excessivelly prohibitive - if a story needs to get to the web it gets to
                        >> the
                        >> web. Yes, there are important stories that did not make it to the web -
                        >> but
                        >> was that because the compression settings were too confusing? Some of the
                        >> producers I have worked with at public access TV stations would not be
                        >> deterred by something like that. Working with videomakers from halfway
                        >> around the world poses much more of a problem. That is a structural
                        >> problem
                        >> not a technical problem. Voodoo is cool, and not everyone is a witch
                        >> doctor
                        >> - what kind of village would that be?
                        >>
                        >> 3) When you are talking about cameras adopting an Open Video Engine, I
                        >> think
                        >> of the lower end cameras. But later, when you talk about collaborative
                        >> workflow, bittorrent and p2p, the reference is to working in HD. Oh, that
                        >> gorgeous HD....I'm drooling.....and I also simply can't imagine a scenario
                        >> in which the big camera companies (sony, canon, jvc, panasonic) would ever
                        >> entertain the idea of opening up their proprietary codecs. In fact, they
                        >> seem to be moving in the entirely opposite direction where you buy a
                        >> proprietary camera, you get proprietary recording media and then you go
                        >> into
                        >> a proprietary editing system - no problem, works great - it is just
                        >> terribly
                        >> expensive. Maybe the low end couldbreak out with a stellar camera and
                        >> maybe
                        >> that is what is needed. Finding a venture capitalist to back an Open Video
                        >> camera is one thing, but it is hard to envision the entire market going
                        >> upside down.
                        >>
                        >> 4) The idea of using an open source content management to enable an 'low
                        >> res
                        >> (offline)' edit that could then be 'up res to HD (online)' through p2p is
                        >> just fantastic. Bandwidth is an issue, still, and I think the answer is to
                        >> look at what open systems might have some bandwidth. Local municpal
                        >> broadband projects might be looking for a way to jumpstart a community
                        >> media
                        >> initiative. Sharing could happen at a local or regional level between
                        >> shared Institutional networks. This is a cultural pipeline that is the
                        >> working corridor for rich media under the Creative Commons. I am also
                        >> seeking to work with those who are reinventing public access through this
                        >> prism of Open Video.
                        >>
                        >> Jason
                        >
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                        http://michaelverdi.com
                      • Heath
                        I don t know....While I would love to see an open platform , I really wonder how many people would actually use it? As I look back at my almost 4 years of
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jun 10, 2009
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                          I don't know....While I would love to see an "open platform", I really wonder how many people would actually use it? As I look back at my almost 4 years of vlogging, I think my greatest barrier to being creative, has actually been more myself than the software or codec or compression, etc.

                          It's the feeling that "this story" or "that story" is not good enough, the feeling of "I can't tell this story becuase I don't know "how" to tell it. Or I get an idea, start on it and then life gets in the way and this idea just sits there...

                          And I don't think I am alone in that regard....

                          What has been great about sites like Freevlog and the Yahoo group and others is the people who care enough to share and teach...And I would agrue that your time or Michael's time and countless others have not been "wasted" at all....I am sure that's not how you mean it, but I consider what you and others to have done of great importance....you have taught others how to "do"...that is no small task.

                          But to get back on topic, I am still just not sure if it's the software or the hardware that needs to be "open" or if it's just us as artists...allowing our works to be a part of another work to create a storyengine that tells a whole new story.....

                          Heath
                          http://heathparks.com

                          --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Jason's thoughts are a good one since I also cant help think we're moving
                          > towards something more than just a free video editor. When I think of this
                          > "Open Video Engine", I think of something the director Guillermo del Toro
                          > talked about inn the below post:
                          > http://www.wired.com/entertainment/hollywood/magazine/17-06/mf_deltoro?currentPage=2
                          >
                          > del Toro: In the next 10 years, we're going to see all the forms of
                          > > entertainment—film, television, video, games, and print—melding into a
                          > > single-platform "story engine." The Model T of this new platform is the PS3.
                          > > The moment you connect creative output with a public story engine, a
                          > > narrative can continue over a period of months or years. It's going to
                          > > rewrite the rules of fiction.
                          > >
                          > > Wired: It sounds like you're talking about an entirely new form of
                          > > storytelling.
                          > >
                          > > del Toro: Think about the way oral tradition became written word—how what
                          > > we know about Achilles was written many, many years after it made its way
                          > > around the world with different names and different types of heroes. That
                          > > can happen when you allow content to keep propagating itself through
                          > > different kinds of platforms and engines—when you permit it to be retold
                          > > with a promiscuous form of mythology. You see it when people create their
                          > > own avatars in games and transfigure their game worlds.
                          > >
                          >
                          > This vision has been spoken before, but I think a more open source approach
                          > to a "storyengine" is needed. It's great that people and companies make
                          > money creating tools, but the fanatical need to be proprietary is sucking
                          > the oxygen out of the creative process. Verdi and I recently talked about
                          > all the hours of our of lives have been wasted discussing, experimenting,
                          > troubleshooting, and teaching how to work with video codecs. Time could be
                          > spent on more creative things.
                          >
                          > Im looking forward to seeing anyone here at
                          > http://openvideoconference.org/next weekend. We'll have a table set up
                          > so people can hang out and
                          > experiment with all this HTML5 stuff.
                          >
                          > Jay
                          >
                          > On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 11:53 PM, Jason Daniels<jdcreativity@...>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Michael,
                          > > I just watched this video again because what you are talking about is
                          > really
                          > > important and I can't go to the Open Video Conference. Here are some
                          > > reactions to what you talked about.
                          > >
                          > > 1) The Open Web, open code, open codec, open source movement has so much
                          > > collective energy working towards it, nothing short of inspiring. The
                          > video
                          > > right in the browser with a specific video tag - wow!
                          > >
                          > > 2) So what if getting videos on the web involves a little voodoo? You have
                          > > to concede that the barrier for publishing video to the web has been
                          > lowered
                          > > substantially and that the whole process is fairly accessible - that is
                          > what
                          > > freevlogging is based on. I don't find the learning curve to be
                          > > excessivelly prohibitive - if a story needs to get to the web it gets to
                          > the
                          > > web. Yes, there are important stories that did not make it to the web -
                          > but
                          > > was that because the compression settings were too confusing? Some of the
                          > > producers I have worked with at public access TV stations would not be
                          > > deterred by something like that. Working with videomakers from halfway
                          > > around the world poses much more of a problem. That is a structural
                          > problem
                          > > not a technical problem. Voodoo is cool, and not everyone is a witch
                          > doctor
                          > > - what kind of village would that be?
                          > >
                          > > 3) When you are talking about cameras adopting an Open Video Engine, I
                          > think
                          > > of the lower end cameras. But later, when you talk about collaborative
                          > > workflow, bittorrent and p2p, the reference is to working in HD. Oh, that
                          > > gorgeous HD....I'm drooling.....and I also simply can't imagine a scenario
                          > > in which the big camera companies (sony, canon, jvc, panasonic) would ever
                          > > entertain the idea of opening up their proprietary codecs. In fact, they
                          > > seem to be moving in the entirely opposite direction where you buy a
                          > > proprietary camera, you get proprietary recording media and then you go
                          > into
                          > > a proprietary editing system - no problem, works great - it is just
                          > terribly
                          > > expensive. Maybe the low end couldbreak out with a stellar camera and
                          > maybe
                          > > that is what is needed. Finding a venture capitalist to back an Open Video
                          > > camera is one thing, but it is hard to envision the entire market going
                          > > upside down.
                          > >
                          > > 4) The idea of using an open source content management to enable an 'low
                          > res
                          > > (offline)' edit that could then be 'up res to HD (online)' through p2p is
                          > > just fantastic. Bandwidth is an issue, still, and I think the answer is to
                          > > look at what open systems might have some bandwidth. Local municpal
                          > > broadband projects might be looking for a way to jumpstart a community
                          > media
                          > > initiative. Sharing could happen at a local or regional level between
                          > > shared Institutional networks. This is a cultural pipeline that is the
                          > > working corridor for rich media under the Creative Commons. I am also
                          > > seeking to work with those who are reinventing public access through this
                          > > prism of Open Video.
                          > >
                          > > Jason
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Jay dedman
                          ... You are correct. Creators just need to keep pushing their own work. I forget sometimes that most videobloggers (and anyone who puts video on the
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jun 10, 2009
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                            > But to get back on topic, I am still just not sure if it's the software or
                            > the hardware that needs to be "open" or if it's just us as
                            > artists...allowing our works to be a part of another work to create a
                            > storyengine that tells a whole new story.....

                            You are correct. Creators just need to keep pushing their own work. I
                            forget sometimes that most videobloggers (and anyone who puts video on
                            the web)....are doing it in addition to having jobs, families,
                            problems, etc.

                            It's been said again and again: There is no longer a priest-caste to
                            make movies, videos, stories, journalism etc. But along with this
                            opening up, there also isn't a clear pattern/format for us to follow.
                            Infinite possibilities means infinite anxiety.

                            Might have been have easier when you knew you had to make a 22-minute
                            TV show, or a 90-minute movie, that was based on very narrow genre
                            expectations? The process of bureaucracy and obtaining approval/money
                            was almost comforting in a solid excuse for not creating? The chase of
                            the festival circuit was a predictable struggle?

                            Anyway...i still do think that an "open video/story engine" would
                            help. The fact that you use Sony Vegas and I use iMovie/FCP...makes it
                            a little more difficult for us to work together without having to
                            figure out the technical aspects in between.

                            Jay


                            --
                            http://ryanishungry.com
                            http://jaydedman.com
                            http://twitter.com/jaydedman
                            917 371 6790
                          • Heath
                            ... In that I completely agree...having a standard or open video editing/processing platform would be great for collaborations and I think we need to remember
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jun 10, 2009
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                              --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...>
                              > Anyway...i still do think that an "open video/story engine" would
                              > help. The fact that you use Sony Vegas and I use iMovie/FCP...makes it
                              > a little more difficult for us to work together without having to
                              > figure out the technical aspects in between.
                              >
                              > Jay


                              In that I completely agree...having a standard or open video editing/processing platform would be great for collaborations and I think we need to remember that "open" doesn't have to mean free...because at some point that people making all this I am sure would like to have some compensation for their time, effort, etc...So some of being open to open standards is for us as storytellers editors, etc is to embrace these new techs and share the knowledge...

                              Although I will admit, it's hard to balance the creative and tech sides of me....

                              Heath
                              http://heathparks.com

                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > http://ryanishungry.com
                              > http://jaydedman.com
                              > http://twitter.com/jaydedman
                              > 917 371 6790
                              >
                            • Michael Sullivan
                              is h264 not ok as master source video codec (and final output) for both vegas and fcp/imovie? ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jun 10, 2009
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                                is h264 not ok as master source video codec (and final output) for both
                                vegas and fcp/imovie?


                                On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote:

                                >
                                >
                                > > But to get back on topic, I am still just not sure if it's the software
                                > or
                                > > the hardware that needs to be "open" or if it's just us as
                                > > artists...allowing our works to be a part of another work to create a
                                > > storyengine that tells a whole new story.....
                                >
                                > You are correct. Creators just need to keep pushing their own work. I
                                > forget sometimes that most videobloggers (and anyone who puts video on
                                > the web)....are doing it in addition to having jobs, families,
                                > problems, etc.
                                >
                                > It's been said again and again: There is no longer a priest-caste to
                                > make movies, videos, stories, journalism etc. But along with this
                                > opening up, there also isn't a clear pattern/format for us to follow.
                                > Infinite possibilities means infinite anxiety.
                                >
                                > Might have been have easier when you knew you had to make a 22-minute
                                > TV show, or a 90-minute movie, that was based on very narrow genre
                                > expectations? The process of bureaucracy and obtaining approval/money
                                > was almost comforting in a solid excuse for not creating? The chase of
                                > the festival circuit was a predictable struggle?
                                >
                                > Anyway...i still do think that an "open video/story engine" would
                                > help. The fact that you use Sony Vegas and I use iMovie/FCP...makes it
                                > a little more difficult for us to work together without having to
                                > figure out the technical aspects in between.
                                >
                                > Jay
                                >
                                > --
                                > http://ryanishungry.com
                                > http://jaydedman.com
                                > http://twitter.com/jaydedman
                                > 917 371 6790
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Michael Sullivan
                                the open part of video editing tools should prob just be that of an XML format that lays out the instructions for an edited and produced video... with all
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jun 10, 2009
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                                  the "open" part of video editing tools should prob just be that of an XML
                                  format that lays out the instructions for an edited and produced video...
                                  with all effects, cuts, layers, paths, filenames and other metadata etc
                                  defined.
                                  then the software out there SHOULD be compatible as handlers and allow for
                                  import of these instructions. since proprietary apps will not care and also
                                  may have their own XML format for such things, open source apps would be
                                  created in tandem.... and eventually, some of the popular editing tools may
                                  support the standard in the future.... which can include supporting ogg or
                                  other open codecs.

                                  imagine if we all made videos using SMIL?

                                  sull

                                  On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Heath <heathparks@...> wrote:

                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com <videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                  > Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...>
                                  > > Anyway...i still do think that an "open video/story engine" would
                                  > > help. The fact that you use Sony Vegas and I use iMovie/FCP...makes it
                                  > > a little more difficult for us to work together without having to
                                  > > figure out the technical aspects in between.
                                  > >
                                  > > Jay
                                  >
                                  > In that I completely agree...having a standard or open video
                                  > editing/processing platform would be great for collaborations and I think we
                                  > need to remember that "open" doesn't have to mean free...because at some
                                  > point that people making all this I am sure would like to have some
                                  > compensation for their time, effort, etc...So some of being open to open
                                  > standards is for us as storytellers editors, etc is to embrace these new
                                  > techs and share the knowledge...
                                  >
                                  > Although I will admit, it's hard to balance the creative and tech sides of
                                  > me....
                                  >
                                  > Heath
                                  > http://heathparks.com
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --
                                  > > http://ryanishungry.com
                                  > > http://jaydedman.com
                                  > > http://twitter.com/jaydedman
                                  > > 917 371 6790
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Jay dedman
                                  ... Sure, that s doable. But if we re really talking about collaboration, lets shoot for the stars. We should be able to swap project files, compression
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jun 10, 2009
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                                    > is h264 not ok as master source video codec (and final output) for both
                                    > vegas and fcp/imovie?

                                    Sure, that's doable.

                                    But if we're really talking about collaboration, lets shoot for the
                                    stars. We should be able to swap project files, compression settings,
                                    fonts, make music together, sceensharing...and IM within the editing
                                    project.

                                    Jay

                                    --
                                    http://ryanishungry.com
                                    http://jaydedman.com
                                    http://twitter.com/jaydedman
                                    917 371 6790
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