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Re: Doesn't this offend anyone?

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  • Verdi
    ... Being able to express your ideas and thoughts is, by nature, a political act. For example see: everyone who s stood up and said something important (or
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 1, 2005
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      --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jeeper One TV <kpdcnettv@c...>
      wrote:
      >
      > >[Ryanne] i am political, it is inherent to the nature of vlogging.
      > >like it or not.
      >
      > Who says so? You? Sorry, but I disagree. Vlogging, like its
      > precedesseors blogging and podcasting, is about EXPRESSING IDEAS &
      > THOUGHTS. Whether they're political or not.
      >
      > Like THAT or not.

      Being able to express your ideas and thoughts is, by nature, a
      political act. For example see: everyone who's stood up and said
      something important (or not) in the history of our existance.

      -Verdi
    • Verdi
      ... I didn t read this perfectly worded response before posting my own. Thanks Josh! - Michael you can t do shit about that Verdi
      Message 2 of 28 , Mar 1, 2005
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        --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Joshua Kinberg <jkinberg@g...>
        wrote:
        > Jeeper, you're talking about the politics of left-vs-right, but I
        > think you're missing the point.
        >
        > Ryanne (and many of us) are talking about the politics of personal
        > expression. Vlogging is inherently political, even if the content
        > itself does not engage in the theater of punditry that we've become
        > accustomed to (and tend to expect when we hear the word "poltical") on
        > shows like "Crossfire" or "Hannity & Colmes".
        >
        > -Josh

        I didn't read this perfectly worded response before posting my own.
        Thanks Josh!

        - Michael "you can't do shit about that" Verdi
      • Jeeper One TV
        Hi everyone: ... I think it s more CULTURAL than political, but that s just MY opinion. :) I guess we ll just have to agree to disagree on this one (THANK GOD
        Message 3 of 28 , Mar 1, 2005
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          Hi everyone:

          At 02:30 PM 3/1/2005, you wrote:


          --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jeeper One TV <kpdcnettv@c...>
          wrote:
          >
          > >[Ryanne] i am political, it is inherent to the nature of vlogging.
          > >like it or not.
          >
          > Who says so?  You?  Sorry, but I disagree.  Vlogging, like its
          > precedesseors blogging and podcasting, is about EXPRESSING IDEAS &
          > THOUGHTS.  Whether they're political or not.
          >
          > Like THAT or not.

          Being able to express your ideas and thoughts is, by nature, a
          political act.  For example see: everyone who's stood up and said
          something important (or not) in the history of our existance.

          I think it's more CULTURAL than political, but that's just MY opinion.  :)

          I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one (THANK GOD the Republicans haven't THAT away from us!)  :)

          Cheers for now  :)

          Patrick Cook
          pchamster@...
          kpdcnettv@...
          Denver, Colorado
          http://kpdcnettv.tripod.com/blog.html
          http://kpdcnettv.tripod.com/blog/
          TEXT RSS Feed - http://kpdcnettv.tripod.com/blog/rss.xml
          PODCAST RSS Feed - http://jeeperone.tripod.com/blog/podcasts/patspodcast/rss.xml (NEW & PERMANENT FEED!!!)
        • Michael Sullivan
          Patrick, Political Discourse is *part* of culture. My advice to you is not to get so hung up on the words and your own personal interpretations of the language
          Message 4 of 28 , Mar 1, 2005
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            Patrick,
            Political Discourse is *part* of culture.
            My advice to you is not to get so hung up on the words and your own
            personal interpretations of the language used here. You can be
            political whilst not discussing governing politics.
            Reading your messages here in this group has annoyed me mor ethan
            once. Not that you should care.... but I thought I would point it out
            ;-)



            On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 21:15:35 -0700, Jeeper One TV <kpdcnettv@...> wrote:
            > Hi everyone:
            >
            > At 02:30 PM 3/1/2005, you wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jeeper One TV <kpdcnettv@c...>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > >[Ryanne] i am political, it is inherent to the nature of vlogging.
            > > >like it or not.
            > >
            > > Who says so? You? Sorry, but I disagree. Vlogging, like its
            > > precedesseors blogging and podcasting, is about EXPRESSING IDEAS &
            > > THOUGHTS. Whether they're political or not.
            > >
            > > Like THAT or not.
            >
            > Being able to express your ideas and thoughts is, by nature, a
            > political act. For example see: everyone who's stood up and said
            > something important (or not) in the history of our existance.
            > I think it's more CULTURAL than political, but that's just MY opinion. :)
            >
            > I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one (THANK GOD the
            > Republicans haven't THAT away from us!) :)
            >
            > Cheers for now :)
            >
            > Patrick Cook
            > pchamster@...
            > kpdcnettv@...
            > Denver, Colorado
            > http://kpdcnettv.tripod.com/blog.html
            > http://kpdcnettv.tripod.com/blog/
            > TEXT RSS Feed - http://kpdcnettv.tripod.com/blog/rss.xml
            > PODCAST RSS Feed -
            > http://jeeperone.tripod.com/blog/podcasts/patspodcast/rss.xml (NEW &
            > PERMANENT FEED!!!)
            >
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          • Michael Meiser
            Alright, How to keep short on the subject of politics. That s so very hard for me :) First, I laughed with delight as I watched this post play out. It was an
            Message 5 of 28 , Mar 2, 2005
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              Alright, How to keep short on the subject of politics. That's so very
              hard for me :)

              First, I laughed with delight as I watched this post play out. It was
              an anti-flame. So interesting so informative. I love it.

              Josh W., I think in a way you're preaching to the choir. We're here to
              support and help you, we love the medium, citizens democracy,
              regardless of your political position and wether we agree with you or
              not. We're going to respect your freedom of speech because that's what
              we stand for. We're probably going to give you criticisms more based on
              your craft not the direct content, perhaps also the underly political
              concepts we all touch on. Finally we're going to encourage you to find
              and hone your voice because that's what we're all doing and that's what
              we love, or at least what I love. I love coming here every day or going
              out there on the web, mefeedia, or ANT and finding real people speaking
              their minds. It's so refreshing I may not get over the basic enjoyment
              before I die. Life. Real life happening.

              Second, I saw your post the other day, but I guess I missed watching
              it. Probably because I just added your feed to ANT, and del.icio.us'd
              it. Sorry about that. I'm glad I caught it today.

              I liked it. I'm really looking forward to more. I guess it doesn't
              really hit me personally, because while there were some new things
              going on I don't have any context, I don't know who you are or anything
              about you. My response was a little benign and the reason is simple, I
              can't empathize with you if I don't know you. When I see clips like
              Chris Weagel's commentary on Walgreens in his hometown I go ape,
              (posted to the video blogging group today) but it's because I have
              loads of back-story on Chris Weagel. In fact without the back-story I
              probably wouldn't "get" his video at all. He's one of the true pioneers
              of this here sport that's only months old. :)

              As such I loved your video too, but as was said in previous posts, it
              takes time to establish an identity, trust, a persona, etc. One post
              isn't going to do it. We need more, more, more! While I think what
              you're doing is great and unique and original in it's own way, what
              this critique is, is more of a critique of what's missing, what's not
              in the video, the hand of the creator as they say. The thing that truly
              makes what you do unique, that makes your videos unique, is you and
              your point of view.

              The person you're looking for who's going to be incensed to rage and
              call you a nazi and a baby killer is going to come from "out there"
              somewhere, and trust me sooner or later they'll find your post and
              you'll get that response. It's what makes this medium great! But in the
              day to day your videos are just pieces of the story, like words in a
              conversation with friends and associates.

              Sooner or later someone will come along and deconstruct them, take them
              out of context, restructure and reuse them, and what happens then is a
              whole new fun and even more interesting game. See Google: "the youngest
              video blogger in the world" :)

              Also, we've had this political discussion here before. There was a
              saying someone posted. A quote. I hunted it down and looked it up
              because it's a great quote.

              "The personal is political."

              It grew out of the feminist movement, though it's usage and meaning has
              spread far beyond women's lib. What it means (and this is particularly
              obvious in times when civil rights are suppressed) is... that a person
              can't be who they are without making a political stand and a political
              statement.

              Something as simple and personal as a black woman getting on on a bus
              can be a huge political statement. Though Rosa Parks and the 1955 bus
              boycott happened well before the term was coined I think it illustrates
              my point well. The phrase's value is in that it humanizes the political
              endeavor and forces you to empathize with the point of view of those
              who are suppressed. When a tired old black lady can't even get a seat
              on the bus at the end of a long day how can she NOT be political?

              We saw this with the Tsunami's this last year, we did not see this in
              the Sudan. Go figure.

              Maybe there's something there for you to drive back into your video
              work. How much more powerful could your video's be if people saw you
              yourself just like them. Not people giving a neo-nazi german salute to
              a bunch of America's finest, but perhaps a real person like Josh
              Kinberg sitting on a bike, approached, arrested, thousands of dollars
              worth of equipment confiscated, laptop, cell phone, bike, etc... all
              hulled away for doing nothing more criminal than that which kids do
              with their chalk when they play hopscotch.
              http://www.bikesagainstbush.com/

              Though I must admit it was hare more political, but in the absolute
              best way. :)

              Warning tangent, next 3 paragraphs...

              It make me personally say, what the hell kind of government is this we
              live with that would seek to suppress an intellectual debate on
              technology and free speech. A positive intellectual debate that was
              getting nationwide attention just as the NYPD stifled it. Killed it in
              fact. Speeches were not given, demonstrations not made, conference
              presentations missed, slashdot conversations not had, national debate
              NOT had. These conversations are the very things we need at the very
              time we needed them! Things I personally looked forward to.

              That's abuse to me, that's suppression of free speech, and for that we
              have to make the city of NY and the NYPD pay in court costs and fines.
              We have to make sure that suppression of free speech through mass
              arrests is NOT a cost effective civil tool and is found not to be
              acceptable legally. Perhaps they think they can get away with this
              because it's post 9/11 NY. I don't know, but if it's not illegal to
              arrest people and pull them off the street for 48 - 72 hours to stop
              them from speaking there minds in a time of need, then what's next?

              Where's the grey area we've created. Can we pull a politician of the
              street for "inciting" a croud at an impromtu political rally in the
              final days of his campaign in some sleepy Georgia town right when his
              presence is most critical to his election? Can we confiscate a work of
              art until it's purpose for being is not longer relevant? Surely you
              would consider Josh's ingenious bicycle printer a work of Art and his
              demonstrations a performance piece? These are the insights that
              empathy gives me, as an artist, a designer, a citizen, and a huge lover
              of bicycling advocacy.

              PS. Josh, Did you ever get your equipment back!? I've been dying for
              the follow up but didn't want to bug you. Please do let us all know.

              The Quote...

              Ok, I Found it, it looks like of all people it was Joshua Kinberg who
              posted the quote "The personal is political." on Feb 5th at 8:01:10 so
              you can go back and look it up if you'd like to see the context. It was
              a political debate.

              Here's the quote from Josh...

              > The phrase "the personal is political" easily dates back to the early
              > 60's (maybe earlier?) and the origins of the Feminist movement. Not
              > sure who actually coined it. It was also adopted pretty quickly in the
              > 60's by activist groups like SDS, and has since become somewhat of a
              > cultural aphorism.

              I've seen info that the term was phrased by Carol Hanish for a Miss
              America Protest some where in 1970 or there about, but you'd really
              have to do some digging. It appears to be a point of much debate.

              Cheers,

              -Mike

              Michael Meiser - he of many, many, many words
              http://mmeiser.com/blog - fun stuff
              http://mmeiser.com/backchannel - serious lunacy stuff

              On Mar 1, 2005, at 4:35 PM, Verdi wrote:



              --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Joshua Kinberg <jkinberg@g...>
              wrote:
              > Jeeper, you're talking about the politics of left-vs-right, but I
              > think you're missing the point.
              >
              > Ryanne (and many of us) are talking about the politics of personal
              > expression. Vlogging is inherently political, even if the content
              > itself does not engage in the theater of punditry that we've become
              > accustomed to (and tend to expect when we hear the word "poltical") on
              > shows like "Crossfire" or "Hannity & Colmes".
              >
              > -Josh

              I didn't read this perfectly worded response before posting my own.
              Thanks Josh!

              - Michael "you can't do shit about that" Verdi
            • Jeeper One TV
              Hi everyone: ... True, but it is SOCIETY & CULTURE that drives politics. Listening to the interpretations given here, one would thinkm it s the other way
              Message 6 of 28 , Mar 2, 2005
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                Hi everyone:

                At 10:32 PM 3/1/2005, you wrote:

                Patrick,
                Political Discourse is *part* of culture.

                True, but it is SOCIETY & CULTURE that drives politics.  Listening to the interpretations given here, one would thinkm it's the other way around though.  THAT is the point I'm trying to make. 

                I mean SERIOUSLY.  Look at the political scene today.  If it weren't for corporations feeding the warchests of a few crooked politicians in Washington (To say nothing of the Republican Party itself), do you HONESTLY believe our government would be the mess that it is today?  Do you HONESTLY believe there would be a consensus within the media of a so-called "liberal bias"??

                The reason WHY we are in this mess is because WE AS A SOCIETY SAT ON OUR COLLECTIVE HANDS AND DID NOTHING!!!!  Now we HAVE to do something and a few of us ARE doing something.  Problem is, the idiots in Washington are seemingly too busy listening to the corporate moguls who would just assume maintain the status quo if they don't get EVEN MORE control over our government.

                Hence the political discourse we are in.

                Unless WE AS A SOCIETY change things BOTH WITHIN OURSELVES **AND** IN WASHINGTON, we're just gonna keep seeing M.O.T.S (more of the same) style of government we've seen since 2000.

                My advice to you is not to get so hung up on the words and your own
                personal interpretations of the language used here.  You can be
                political whilst not discussing governing politics.
                Reading your messages here in this group has annoyed me mor ethan
                once. Not that you should care.... but I thought I would point it out
                ;-)

                MY advice would be for the far left to STOP THE FINGERPOINTING.  Once that's done, THEN we can use blogging, podcasting, and vlogging to shape a "New World Order" as it were.  Yes, there'll be those on the Right who will use these same technologies for their own cause, but we all know they just simply wanna bury their heads in the friggin' sand UNLESS AND/OR UNTIL their son or daughter is sent overseas.  THEN they might care. 

                Then again, maybe not.

                As for the discussion of political vlogging, perhaps another group could be set up SPECIFICALLY for that purpose?  This would seem to be in order (Not to mention a better idea).  Then this way, people who would just assume talk about vlogging about "Grandma's Secret Recipe For Homemade Cookies" or whatever can have a place to turn to that's NOT caught up in political discussion while those who want to talk about setting up a vlog for their local city councilman, State Rep or other public official can do so WITHOUT being jumped on.  :)

                Just my opinion  :)

                Cheers for now  :)

                Patrick Cook
                pchamster@...
                kpdcnettv@...
                Denver, Colorado
                http://kpdcnettv.tripod.com/blog.html
                http://kpdcnettv.tripod.com/blog/
                TEXT RSS Feed - http://kpdcnettv.tripod.com/blog/rss.xml
                PODCAST RSS Feed - http://jeeperone.tripod.com/blog/podcasts/patspodcast/rss.xml (NEW & PERMANENT FEED!!!)
              • Adam Quirk
                If god existed this blather would not be in my email box.
                Message 7 of 28 , Mar 2, 2005
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                  If god existed this blather would not be in my email box.
                • Shannon Noble
                  Touche . At the base of things, it s all about tribalism, survival, and spreading genes....and who can be the most creative about it. By winning, we lose.
                  Message 8 of 28 , Mar 3, 2005
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                    Touche'. At the base of things, it's all about tribalism, survival,
                    and spreading genes....and who can be the most creative about it. By
                    winning, we lose.


                    On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 01:45:47 -0500, Adam Quirk <bullemhead@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > If god existed this blather would not be in my email box.
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Harold Johnson
                    Well, it certainly looks like Josh got the responses he seemed to be fishing for... Harold J. Johnson
                    Message 9 of 28 , Mar 5, 2005
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                      Well, it certainly looks like Josh got the responses he seemed to be
                      fishing for...

                      Harold J. Johnson

                      On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 06:26:27 -0800, Shannon Noble <shannon.sn@...> wrote:
                      > Touche'. At the base of things, it's all about tribalism, survival,
                      > and spreading genes....and who can be the most creative about it. By
                      > winning, we lose.
                      >
                      >
                      > On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 01:45:47 -0500, Adam Quirk <bullemhead@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > If god existed this blather would not be in my email box.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      >
                      > ADVERTISEMENT
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
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                      >
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                      >
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