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Re: [videoblogging] Doesn't this offend anyone?

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  • ryanne hodson
    as many of you know i cringe when people tell me what i should and should not be discussing. esp on such a diverse group list like this. i think these
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 1, 2005
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      as many of you know
      i cringe when people tell me what i should and should not be discussing.
      esp on such a diverse group list like this.
      i think these discussions should go on mostly in video format
      for that is what we are here for
      but if text starts and continues on the list, fine.

      when have you seen us get caught up in political talk on this list patrick?
      you talk about whatever you want
      and so will i.
      if people choose to respond, on or off this list
      so be it.

      but dont think you can dictate what people should and shouldnt talk about here.
      you have your opinion, i have mine wether or not this is "political"
      or subversive or fun or boring or powerful or useless or whatever
      and you can start discussions about whatever you want.

      just dont think you can tell me what i should and shouldnt do.

      the end,
      ryanne

      On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 13:32:52 -0700, Jeeper One TV <kpdcnettv@...> wrote:
      > Hi everyone:
      >
      > At 12:27 PM 3/1/2005, you wrote:
      >
      >
      > > That said though, I think you need to be reminded Mr. Wolf that this
      > > *isn't* a group that discusses political issues
      >
      > um
      > what?
      > since when is this true?
      > [snip...]
      >
      >
      > dont let the fun of vlogging fool you into thinking this isnt "political"
      > But we shouldn't let it think that it *is* either. If we do, we'll be too
      > busy hurling flames at each other to do what the group was formed for in the
      > first place - INTRODUCING PEOPLE TO THE WORLD OF VLOGGING.
      >
      >
      > political as a vocab word is far reaching
      > and can be used for more than shitty, presidential elections or tv
      > news coverage of crap.
      > Yes, but there are other groups created for that purpose (I hear some of
      > the idiots from the old boulder.general newsgroup now have their own Yahoo!
      > Group). Simply because we possess the tools to (potentially) change
      > politics doesn't mean we as group should allow ourselves to get caught up in
      > it. That isn't what this group was created for. This group was created to
      > introduce people to the world of vlogging. If we let ourselves get caught
      > up in politics, people who want to learn how to vlog won't be able to tell
      > the difference between us and some of the political groups that are around.
      >
      >
      > i am political, it is inherent to the nature of vlogging.
      > like it or not.
      > Who says so? You? Sorry, but I disagree. Vlogging, like its
      > precedesseors blogging and podcasting, is about EXPRESSING IDEAS & THOUGHTS.
      > Whether they're political or not.
      >
      > Like THAT or not.
      >
      >
      > this group is not limited by what we "can and can not" discuss.
      > --
      > we ARE the media.
      > Agreed. But we shouldn't limit ourselves to politics. In fact doing so
      > would do more harm to the medium than good. Something you might wanna think
      > about.
      >
      > If that sounds "old skool" then so be it, but it's just my opinion.
      >
      > Cheers for now :)
      >
      >
      > Patrick Cook
      > pchamster@...
      > kpdcnettv@...
      > Denver, Colorado
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      --
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    • Joshua Kinberg
      Jeeper, you re talking about the politics of left-vs-right, but I think you re missing the point. Ryanne (and many of us) are talking about the politics of
      Message 2 of 28 , Mar 1, 2005
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        Jeeper, you're talking about the politics of left-vs-right, but I
        think you're missing the point.

        Ryanne (and many of us) are talking about the politics of personal
        expression. Vlogging is inherently political, even if the content
        itself does not engage in the theater of punditry that we've become
        accustomed to (and tend to expect when we hear the word "poltical") on
        shows like "Crossfire" or "Hannity & Colmes".

        -Josh


        On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 13:32:52 -0700, Jeeper One TV <kpdcnettv@...> wrote:
        > Hi everyone:
        >
        > At 12:27 PM 3/1/2005, you wrote:
        >
        >
        > > That said though, I think you need to be reminded Mr. Wolf that this
        > > *isn't* a group that discusses political issues
        >
        > um
        > what?
        > since when is this true?
        > [snip...]
        >
        >
        > dont let the fun of vlogging fool you into thinking this isnt "political"
        > But we shouldn't let it think that it *is* either. If we do, we'll be too
        > busy hurling flames at each other to do what the group was formed for in the
        > first place - INTRODUCING PEOPLE TO THE WORLD OF VLOGGING.
        >
        >
        > political as a vocab word is far reaching
        > and can be used for more than shitty, presidential elections or tv
        > news coverage of crap.
        > Yes, but there are other groups created for that purpose (I hear some of
        > the idiots from the old boulder.general newsgroup now have their own Yahoo!
        > Group). Simply because we possess the tools to (potentially) change
        > politics doesn't mean we as group should allow ourselves to get caught up in
        > it. That isn't what this group was created for. This group was created to
        > introduce people to the world of vlogging. If we let ourselves get caught
        > up in politics, people who want to learn how to vlog won't be able to tell
        > the difference between us and some of the political groups that are around.
        >
        >
        > i am political, it is inherent to the nature of vlogging.
        > like it or not.
        > Who says so? You? Sorry, but I disagree. Vlogging, like its
        > precedesseors blogging and podcasting, is about EXPRESSING IDEAS & THOUGHTS.
        > Whether they're political or not.
        >
        > Like THAT or not.
        >
        >
        > this group is not limited by what we "can and can not" discuss.
        > --
        > we ARE the media.
        > Agreed. But we shouldn't limit ourselves to politics. In fact doing so
        > would do more harm to the medium than good. Something you might wanna think
        > about.
        >
        > If that sounds "old skool" then so be it, but it's just my opinion.
        >
        > Cheers for now :)
        >
        > Patrick Cook
      • Verdi
        ... Being able to express your ideas and thoughts is, by nature, a political act. For example see: everyone who s stood up and said something important (or
        Message 3 of 28 , Mar 1, 2005
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          --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jeeper One TV <kpdcnettv@c...>
          wrote:
          >
          > >[Ryanne] i am political, it is inherent to the nature of vlogging.
          > >like it or not.
          >
          > Who says so? You? Sorry, but I disagree. Vlogging, like its
          > precedesseors blogging and podcasting, is about EXPRESSING IDEAS &
          > THOUGHTS. Whether they're political or not.
          >
          > Like THAT or not.

          Being able to express your ideas and thoughts is, by nature, a
          political act. For example see: everyone who's stood up and said
          something important (or not) in the history of our existance.

          -Verdi
        • Verdi
          ... I didn t read this perfectly worded response before posting my own. Thanks Josh! - Michael you can t do shit about that Verdi
          Message 4 of 28 , Mar 1, 2005
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            --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Joshua Kinberg <jkinberg@g...>
            wrote:
            > Jeeper, you're talking about the politics of left-vs-right, but I
            > think you're missing the point.
            >
            > Ryanne (and many of us) are talking about the politics of personal
            > expression. Vlogging is inherently political, even if the content
            > itself does not engage in the theater of punditry that we've become
            > accustomed to (and tend to expect when we hear the word "poltical") on
            > shows like "Crossfire" or "Hannity & Colmes".
            >
            > -Josh

            I didn't read this perfectly worded response before posting my own.
            Thanks Josh!

            - Michael "you can't do shit about that" Verdi
          • Jeeper One TV
            Hi everyone: ... I think it s more CULTURAL than political, but that s just MY opinion. :) I guess we ll just have to agree to disagree on this one (THANK GOD
            Message 5 of 28 , Mar 1, 2005
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              Hi everyone:

              At 02:30 PM 3/1/2005, you wrote:


              --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jeeper One TV <kpdcnettv@c...>
              wrote:
              >
              > >[Ryanne] i am political, it is inherent to the nature of vlogging.
              > >like it or not.
              >
              > Who says so?  You?  Sorry, but I disagree.  Vlogging, like its
              > precedesseors blogging and podcasting, is about EXPRESSING IDEAS &
              > THOUGHTS.  Whether they're political or not.
              >
              > Like THAT or not.

              Being able to express your ideas and thoughts is, by nature, a
              political act.  For example see: everyone who's stood up and said
              something important (or not) in the history of our existance.

              I think it's more CULTURAL than political, but that's just MY opinion.  :)

              I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one (THANK GOD the Republicans haven't THAT away from us!)  :)

              Cheers for now  :)

              Patrick Cook
              pchamster@...
              kpdcnettv@...
              Denver, Colorado
              http://kpdcnettv.tripod.com/blog.html
              http://kpdcnettv.tripod.com/blog/
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            • Michael Sullivan
              Patrick, Political Discourse is *part* of culture. My advice to you is not to get so hung up on the words and your own personal interpretations of the language
              Message 6 of 28 , Mar 1, 2005
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                Patrick,
                Political Discourse is *part* of culture.
                My advice to you is not to get so hung up on the words and your own
                personal interpretations of the language used here. You can be
                political whilst not discussing governing politics.
                Reading your messages here in this group has annoyed me mor ethan
                once. Not that you should care.... but I thought I would point it out
                ;-)



                On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 21:15:35 -0700, Jeeper One TV <kpdcnettv@...> wrote:
                > Hi everyone:
                >
                > At 02:30 PM 3/1/2005, you wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jeeper One TV <kpdcnettv@c...>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > >[Ryanne] i am political, it is inherent to the nature of vlogging.
                > > >like it or not.
                > >
                > > Who says so? You? Sorry, but I disagree. Vlogging, like its
                > > precedesseors blogging and podcasting, is about EXPRESSING IDEAS &
                > > THOUGHTS. Whether they're political or not.
                > >
                > > Like THAT or not.
                >
                > Being able to express your ideas and thoughts is, by nature, a
                > political act. For example see: everyone who's stood up and said
                > something important (or not) in the history of our existance.
                > I think it's more CULTURAL than political, but that's just MY opinion. :)
                >
                > I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one (THANK GOD the
                > Republicans haven't THAT away from us!) :)
                >
                > Cheers for now :)
                >
                > Patrick Cook
                > pchamster@...
                > kpdcnettv@...
                > Denver, Colorado
                > http://kpdcnettv.tripod.com/blog.html
                > http://kpdcnettv.tripod.com/blog/
                > TEXT RSS Feed - http://kpdcnettv.tripod.com/blog/rss.xml
                > PODCAST RSS Feed -
                > http://jeeperone.tripod.com/blog/podcasts/patspodcast/rss.xml (NEW &
                > PERMANENT FEED!!!)
                >
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                >
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                >
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                >
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                >
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                >


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                i n t e r d i g i t a t e . c o m
                =====================
              • Michael Meiser
                Alright, How to keep short on the subject of politics. That s so very hard for me :) First, I laughed with delight as I watched this post play out. It was an
                Message 7 of 28 , Mar 2, 2005
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                  Alright, How to keep short on the subject of politics. That's so very
                  hard for me :)

                  First, I laughed with delight as I watched this post play out. It was
                  an anti-flame. So interesting so informative. I love it.

                  Josh W., I think in a way you're preaching to the choir. We're here to
                  support and help you, we love the medium, citizens democracy,
                  regardless of your political position and wether we agree with you or
                  not. We're going to respect your freedom of speech because that's what
                  we stand for. We're probably going to give you criticisms more based on
                  your craft not the direct content, perhaps also the underly political
                  concepts we all touch on. Finally we're going to encourage you to find
                  and hone your voice because that's what we're all doing and that's what
                  we love, or at least what I love. I love coming here every day or going
                  out there on the web, mefeedia, or ANT and finding real people speaking
                  their minds. It's so refreshing I may not get over the basic enjoyment
                  before I die. Life. Real life happening.

                  Second, I saw your post the other day, but I guess I missed watching
                  it. Probably because I just added your feed to ANT, and del.icio.us'd
                  it. Sorry about that. I'm glad I caught it today.

                  I liked it. I'm really looking forward to more. I guess it doesn't
                  really hit me personally, because while there were some new things
                  going on I don't have any context, I don't know who you are or anything
                  about you. My response was a little benign and the reason is simple, I
                  can't empathize with you if I don't know you. When I see clips like
                  Chris Weagel's commentary on Walgreens in his hometown I go ape,
                  (posted to the video blogging group today) but it's because I have
                  loads of back-story on Chris Weagel. In fact without the back-story I
                  probably wouldn't "get" his video at all. He's one of the true pioneers
                  of this here sport that's only months old. :)

                  As such I loved your video too, but as was said in previous posts, it
                  takes time to establish an identity, trust, a persona, etc. One post
                  isn't going to do it. We need more, more, more! While I think what
                  you're doing is great and unique and original in it's own way, what
                  this critique is, is more of a critique of what's missing, what's not
                  in the video, the hand of the creator as they say. The thing that truly
                  makes what you do unique, that makes your videos unique, is you and
                  your point of view.

                  The person you're looking for who's going to be incensed to rage and
                  call you a nazi and a baby killer is going to come from "out there"
                  somewhere, and trust me sooner or later they'll find your post and
                  you'll get that response. It's what makes this medium great! But in the
                  day to day your videos are just pieces of the story, like words in a
                  conversation with friends and associates.

                  Sooner or later someone will come along and deconstruct them, take them
                  out of context, restructure and reuse them, and what happens then is a
                  whole new fun and even more interesting game. See Google: "the youngest
                  video blogger in the world" :)

                  Also, we've had this political discussion here before. There was a
                  saying someone posted. A quote. I hunted it down and looked it up
                  because it's a great quote.

                  "The personal is political."

                  It grew out of the feminist movement, though it's usage and meaning has
                  spread far beyond women's lib. What it means (and this is particularly
                  obvious in times when civil rights are suppressed) is... that a person
                  can't be who they are without making a political stand and a political
                  statement.

                  Something as simple and personal as a black woman getting on on a bus
                  can be a huge political statement. Though Rosa Parks and the 1955 bus
                  boycott happened well before the term was coined I think it illustrates
                  my point well. The phrase's value is in that it humanizes the political
                  endeavor and forces you to empathize with the point of view of those
                  who are suppressed. When a tired old black lady can't even get a seat
                  on the bus at the end of a long day how can she NOT be political?

                  We saw this with the Tsunami's this last year, we did not see this in
                  the Sudan. Go figure.

                  Maybe there's something there for you to drive back into your video
                  work. How much more powerful could your video's be if people saw you
                  yourself just like them. Not people giving a neo-nazi german salute to
                  a bunch of America's finest, but perhaps a real person like Josh
                  Kinberg sitting on a bike, approached, arrested, thousands of dollars
                  worth of equipment confiscated, laptop, cell phone, bike, etc... all
                  hulled away for doing nothing more criminal than that which kids do
                  with their chalk when they play hopscotch.
                  http://www.bikesagainstbush.com/

                  Though I must admit it was hare more political, but in the absolute
                  best way. :)

                  Warning tangent, next 3 paragraphs...

                  It make me personally say, what the hell kind of government is this we
                  live with that would seek to suppress an intellectual debate on
                  technology and free speech. A positive intellectual debate that was
                  getting nationwide attention just as the NYPD stifled it. Killed it in
                  fact. Speeches were not given, demonstrations not made, conference
                  presentations missed, slashdot conversations not had, national debate
                  NOT had. These conversations are the very things we need at the very
                  time we needed them! Things I personally looked forward to.

                  That's abuse to me, that's suppression of free speech, and for that we
                  have to make the city of NY and the NYPD pay in court costs and fines.
                  We have to make sure that suppression of free speech through mass
                  arrests is NOT a cost effective civil tool and is found not to be
                  acceptable legally. Perhaps they think they can get away with this
                  because it's post 9/11 NY. I don't know, but if it's not illegal to
                  arrest people and pull them off the street for 48 - 72 hours to stop
                  them from speaking there minds in a time of need, then what's next?

                  Where's the grey area we've created. Can we pull a politician of the
                  street for "inciting" a croud at an impromtu political rally in the
                  final days of his campaign in some sleepy Georgia town right when his
                  presence is most critical to his election? Can we confiscate a work of
                  art until it's purpose for being is not longer relevant? Surely you
                  would consider Josh's ingenious bicycle printer a work of Art and his
                  demonstrations a performance piece? These are the insights that
                  empathy gives me, as an artist, a designer, a citizen, and a huge lover
                  of bicycling advocacy.

                  PS. Josh, Did you ever get your equipment back!? I've been dying for
                  the follow up but didn't want to bug you. Please do let us all know.

                  The Quote...

                  Ok, I Found it, it looks like of all people it was Joshua Kinberg who
                  posted the quote "The personal is political." on Feb 5th at 8:01:10 so
                  you can go back and look it up if you'd like to see the context. It was
                  a political debate.

                  Here's the quote from Josh...

                  > The phrase "the personal is political" easily dates back to the early
                  > 60's (maybe earlier?) and the origins of the Feminist movement. Not
                  > sure who actually coined it. It was also adopted pretty quickly in the
                  > 60's by activist groups like SDS, and has since become somewhat of a
                  > cultural aphorism.

                  I've seen info that the term was phrased by Carol Hanish for a Miss
                  America Protest some where in 1970 or there about, but you'd really
                  have to do some digging. It appears to be a point of much debate.

                  Cheers,

                  -Mike

                  Michael Meiser - he of many, many, many words
                  http://mmeiser.com/blog - fun stuff
                  http://mmeiser.com/backchannel - serious lunacy stuff

                  On Mar 1, 2005, at 4:35 PM, Verdi wrote:



                  --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Joshua Kinberg <jkinberg@g...>
                  wrote:
                  > Jeeper, you're talking about the politics of left-vs-right, but I
                  > think you're missing the point.
                  >
                  > Ryanne (and many of us) are talking about the politics of personal
                  > expression. Vlogging is inherently political, even if the content
                  > itself does not engage in the theater of punditry that we've become
                  > accustomed to (and tend to expect when we hear the word "poltical") on
                  > shows like "Crossfire" or "Hannity & Colmes".
                  >
                  > -Josh

                  I didn't read this perfectly worded response before posting my own.
                  Thanks Josh!

                  - Michael "you can't do shit about that" Verdi
                • Jeeper One TV
                  Hi everyone: ... True, but it is SOCIETY & CULTURE that drives politics. Listening to the interpretations given here, one would thinkm it s the other way
                  Message 8 of 28 , Mar 2, 2005
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                    Hi everyone:

                    At 10:32 PM 3/1/2005, you wrote:

                    Patrick,
                    Political Discourse is *part* of culture.

                    True, but it is SOCIETY & CULTURE that drives politics.  Listening to the interpretations given here, one would thinkm it's the other way around though.  THAT is the point I'm trying to make. 

                    I mean SERIOUSLY.  Look at the political scene today.  If it weren't for corporations feeding the warchests of a few crooked politicians in Washington (To say nothing of the Republican Party itself), do you HONESTLY believe our government would be the mess that it is today?  Do you HONESTLY believe there would be a consensus within the media of a so-called "liberal bias"??

                    The reason WHY we are in this mess is because WE AS A SOCIETY SAT ON OUR COLLECTIVE HANDS AND DID NOTHING!!!!  Now we HAVE to do something and a few of us ARE doing something.  Problem is, the idiots in Washington are seemingly too busy listening to the corporate moguls who would just assume maintain the status quo if they don't get EVEN MORE control over our government.

                    Hence the political discourse we are in.

                    Unless WE AS A SOCIETY change things BOTH WITHIN OURSELVES **AND** IN WASHINGTON, we're just gonna keep seeing M.O.T.S (more of the same) style of government we've seen since 2000.

                    My advice to you is not to get so hung up on the words and your own
                    personal interpretations of the language used here.  You can be
                    political whilst not discussing governing politics.
                    Reading your messages here in this group has annoyed me mor ethan
                    once. Not that you should care.... but I thought I would point it out
                    ;-)

                    MY advice would be for the far left to STOP THE FINGERPOINTING.  Once that's done, THEN we can use blogging, podcasting, and vlogging to shape a "New World Order" as it were.  Yes, there'll be those on the Right who will use these same technologies for their own cause, but we all know they just simply wanna bury their heads in the friggin' sand UNLESS AND/OR UNTIL their son or daughter is sent overseas.  THEN they might care. 

                    Then again, maybe not.

                    As for the discussion of political vlogging, perhaps another group could be set up SPECIFICALLY for that purpose?  This would seem to be in order (Not to mention a better idea).  Then this way, people who would just assume talk about vlogging about "Grandma's Secret Recipe For Homemade Cookies" or whatever can have a place to turn to that's NOT caught up in political discussion while those who want to talk about setting up a vlog for their local city councilman, State Rep or other public official can do so WITHOUT being jumped on.  :)

                    Just my opinion  :)

                    Cheers for now  :)

                    Patrick Cook
                    pchamster@...
                    kpdcnettv@...
                    Denver, Colorado
                    http://kpdcnettv.tripod.com/blog.html
                    http://kpdcnettv.tripod.com/blog/
                    TEXT RSS Feed - http://kpdcnettv.tripod.com/blog/rss.xml
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                  • Adam Quirk
                    If god existed this blather would not be in my email box.
                    Message 9 of 28 , Mar 2, 2005
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                      If god existed this blather would not be in my email box.
                    • Shannon Noble
                      Touche . At the base of things, it s all about tribalism, survival, and spreading genes....and who can be the most creative about it. By winning, we lose.
                      Message 10 of 28 , Mar 3, 2005
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                        Touche'. At the base of things, it's all about tribalism, survival,
                        and spreading genes....and who can be the most creative about it. By
                        winning, we lose.


                        On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 01:45:47 -0500, Adam Quirk <bullemhead@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > If god existed this blather would not be in my email box.
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Harold Johnson
                        Well, it certainly looks like Josh got the responses he seemed to be fishing for... Harold J. Johnson
                        Message 11 of 28 , Mar 5, 2005
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                          Well, it certainly looks like Josh got the responses he seemed to be
                          fishing for...

                          Harold J. Johnson

                          On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 06:26:27 -0800, Shannon Noble <shannon.sn@...> wrote:
                          > Touche'. At the base of things, it's all about tribalism, survival,
                          > and spreading genes....and who can be the most creative about it. By
                          > winning, we lose.
                          >
                          >
                          > On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 01:45:47 -0500, Adam Quirk <bullemhead@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > If god existed this blather would not be in my email box.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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