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Re: [videoblogging] Re: vPIP 1.11 Beta (Ogg support & share video) available

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  • Richard (Show) Hall
    Charles, I don t really want perfect DRM . First, of course, it s hard to imagine it can be done, since the ones who want to violate it are really good at
    Message 1 of 20 , Sep 1, 2007
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      Charles,

      I don't really want "perfect DRM". First, of course, it's hard to imagine it
      can be done, since the ones who want to violate it are really good at
      breaking it. But that's not a real argument, of course, since the "perfect"
      is hypothetical and, in any case, you are infinitely more expert and knowing
      what actually would be possible than me. This does have a practical
      implication, however, in the trade off between how much effort it would take
      someone, even with your skills, to make this perfect DRM, and how much that
      would take away time from all the other great things that you do.

      My deeper objection is philosophical - and really applies more to media that
      is bought (as opposed to what I mae that is free) - it's like, if I purchase
      a digital song, or, especially if I buy a physical device, I think my
      personal property rights are being violated if someone does something to
      degrade that device to stop some other criminal, who is not me.

      I'm sure if I spent more time thinking about it, I can imagine scenarios
      where I wouldn't want this and it's most likely some point on a continuum
      (there's an interesting analogy to gun ownership, that makes me a little
      suspicious of my own arguments), but, by and large I lean strongly away from
      the DRM sort of philosophy.

      ... Richard

      On 9/1/07, Charles Hope <charles@...> wrote:
      >
      > Don't worry, Richard. There's no DRM on our road map. However, your
      > concern
      > about DRM is that it has the unfortunate side effect of impeding your
      > actual
      > target audience. So you seem to be against crude, inexact DRM, and not the
      >
      > ideal type which would only be noticed by violators of the Creative
      > Commons.
      > Perhaps you just want better DRM?
      >
      > Richard (Show) Hall wrote:
      > >
      > > Of course, it may be (though I'm skeptical) that I will thwart more
      > > "criminals" by putting this road block up, but the trade off between
      > > screwing up a "non-criminal's" viewing experience, is not even close to
      > the
      > > advantage of blocking illegal use.
      >
      >



      --
      Richard
      http://richardhhall.org
      Shows
      http://richardshow.org
      http://inspiredhealing.tv


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jay dedman
      ... Here s the real story: DRM doesnt work. companies spend thousands of hours building it, and millions of dollars implementing it. They do it through
      Message 2 of 20 , Sep 1, 2007
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        > I think people want, more than anything, the choice.
        > The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and
        > limiting their fair use rights.
        > I think that letting content creators choose how to publish their
        > content is the way forward. DRM is never going to be a one size fits
        > all solution to the problem. At the end of the day, even DRM is a
        > tool that is useful to some people and will continue to be in the
        > future.
        > I would hope that no platform provider takes an absolute stance on
        > the issue, but allows creators the freedom to build their content and
        > their business model in a way that makes sense for them.

        Here's the real story: DRM doesnt work.
        companies spend thousands of hours building it, and millions of
        dollars implementing it.
        They do it through software and hardware.
        Then some 17 year old kids spend a weekend to crack it.

        So Richard's advice for blip to not waste time on DRM is a good one.
        if someone wants something bad enough, they're going to get it.

        We have Creative Commons licenses.
        Its clear...and its about trusting people to be smart and respectful.

        I dont need DRM to lock down my videos.
        Let's say someone grabs my videos and starts making millions of dollars....
        first, I'd be pretty impressed...but then i'd hire a lawyer to take care of it.
        If someone is just being a dick by disrespecting my CC license, Ill
        let the community know.
        ultimately, if someone is a dick and doesnt care about reputation, not
        much i can do.

        But DRM is not for you and me.....DRM is built for business.
        they want to make sure the little people dont get their greasy hands
        on their content.
        everyone is suspect. everyone is a criminal.
        forget creating goodwill with the people who keep them rolling in cash.
        people must be stopped.
        stop.

        jay

        --
        http://jaydedman.com
        917 371 6790
      • Irina
        jay you are SO wrong. its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid! get your facts right. free john johansen! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Johansen ... --
        Message 3 of 20 , Sep 3, 2007
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          jay you are SO wrong.
          its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid!
          get your facts right.
          free john johansen!
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Johansen

          On 9/1/07, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote:
          >
          > > I think people want, more than anything, the choice.
          > > The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and
          > > limiting their fair use rights.
          > > I think that letting content creators choose how to publish their
          > > content is the way forward. DRM is never going to be a one size fits
          > > all solution to the problem. At the end of the day, even DRM is a
          > > tool that is useful to some people and will continue to be in the
          > > future.
          > > I would hope that no platform provider takes an absolute stance on
          > > the issue, but allows creators the freedom to build their content and
          > > their business model in a way that makes sense for them.
          >
          > Here's the real story: DRM doesnt work.
          > companies spend thousands of hours building it, and millions of
          > dollars implementing it.
          > They do it through software and hardware.
          > Then some 17 year old kids spend a weekend to crack it.
          >
          > So Richard's advice for blip to not waste time on DRM is a good one.
          > if someone wants something bad enough, they're going to get it.
          >
          > We have Creative Commons licenses.
          > Its clear...and its about trusting people to be smart and respectful.
          >
          > I dont need DRM to lock down my videos.
          > Let's say someone grabs my videos and starts making millions of
          > dollars....
          > first, I'd be pretty impressed...but then i'd hire a lawyer to take care
          > of it.
          > If someone is just being a dick by disrespecting my CC license, Ill
          > let the community know.
          > ultimately, if someone is a dick and doesnt care about reputation, not
          > much i can do.
          >
          > But DRM is not for you and me.....DRM is built for business.
          > they want to make sure the little people dont get their greasy hands
          > on their content.
          > everyone is suspect. everyone is a criminal.
          > forget creating goodwill with the people who keep them rolling in cash.
          > people must be stopped.
          > stop.
          >
          > jay
          >
          > --
          > http://jaydedman.com
          > 917 371 6790
          >
          >



          --
          http://geekentertainment.tv


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • bordercollieaustralianshepherd
          ... 2007 - 1983 = 24 doh! Jon Lech Johansen (born November 18, 1983 in Harstad, Norway) ... content and ... take care ... cash.
          Message 4 of 20 , Sep 3, 2007
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            > jay you are SO wrong.
            > its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid!

            2007 - 1983 = 24 doh!
            Jon Lech Johansen (born November 18, 1983 in Harstad, Norway)

            :-)


            --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Irina <irinaski@...> wrote:
            >
            > jay you are SO wrong.
            > its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid!
            > get your facts right.
            > free john johansen!
            > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Johansen
            >
            > On 9/1/07, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > > I think people want, more than anything, the choice.
            > > > The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and
            > > > limiting their fair use rights.
            > > > I think that letting content creators choose how to publish their
            > > > content is the way forward. DRM is never going to be a one size fits
            > > > all solution to the problem. At the end of the day, even DRM is a
            > > > tool that is useful to some people and will continue to be in the
            > > > future.
            > > > I would hope that no platform provider takes an absolute stance on
            > > > the issue, but allows creators the freedom to build their
            content and
            > > > their business model in a way that makes sense for them.
            > >
            > > Here's the real story: DRM doesnt work.
            > > companies spend thousands of hours building it, and millions of
            > > dollars implementing it.
            > > They do it through software and hardware.
            > > Then some 17 year old kids spend a weekend to crack it.
            > >
            > > So Richard's advice for blip to not waste time on DRM is a good one.
            > > if someone wants something bad enough, they're going to get it.
            > >
            > > We have Creative Commons licenses.
            > > Its clear...and its about trusting people to be smart and respectful.
            > >
            > > I dont need DRM to lock down my videos.
            > > Let's say someone grabs my videos and starts making millions of
            > > dollars....
            > > first, I'd be pretty impressed...but then i'd hire a lawyer to
            take care
            > > of it.
            > > If someone is just being a dick by disrespecting my CC license, Ill
            > > let the community know.
            > > ultimately, if someone is a dick and doesnt care about reputation, not
            > > much i can do.
            > >
            > > But DRM is not for you and me.....DRM is built for business.
            > > they want to make sure the little people dont get their greasy hands
            > > on their content.
            > > everyone is suspect. everyone is a criminal.
            > > forget creating goodwill with the people who keep them rolling in
            cash.
            > > people must be stopped.
            > > stop.
            > >
            > > jay
            > >
            > > --
            > > http://jaydedman.com
            > > 917 371 6790
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > http://geekentertainment.tv
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Irina
            when he was charged with his crime he was about 12 from what i remember. jon told me his father had to get him from school to take him to court. ... On
            Message 5 of 20 , Sep 3, 2007
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              when he was charged with his "crime" he was about 12
              from what i remember. jon told me his father had to get him
              from school to take him to court.
              :)

              On 9/3/07, bordercollieaustralianshepherd <
              bordercollieaustralianshepherd@...> wrote:
              >
              > > jay you are SO wrong.
              > > its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid!
              >
              > 2007 - 1983 = 24 doh!
              > Jon Lech Johansen (born November 18, 1983 in Harstad, Norway)
              >
              > :-)
              >
              > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com <videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > Irina <irinaski@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > jay you are SO wrong.
              > > its a 12 year old kid, not a 17 year old kid!
              > > get your facts right.
              > > free john johansen!
              > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Johansen
              > >
              > > On 9/1/07, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > > I think people want, more than anything, the choice.
              > > > > The thing people hate about DRM is it being forced on them and
              > > > > limiting their fair use rights.
              > > > > I think that letting content creators choose how to publish their
              > > > > content is the way forward. DRM is never going to be a one size fits
              > > > > all solution to the problem. At the end of the day, even DRM is a
              > > > > tool that is useful to some people and will continue to be in the
              > > > > future.
              > > > > I would hope that no platform provider takes an absolute stance on
              > > > > the issue, but allows creators the freedom to build their
              > content and
              > > > > their business model in a way that makes sense for them.
              > > >
              > > > Here's the real story: DRM doesnt work.
              > > > companies spend thousands of hours building it, and millions of
              > > > dollars implementing it.
              > > > They do it through software and hardware.
              > > > Then some 17 year old kids spend a weekend to crack it.
              > > >
              > > > So Richard's advice for blip to not waste time on DRM is a good one.
              > > > if someone wants something bad enough, they're going to get it.
              > > >
              > > > We have Creative Commons licenses.
              > > > Its clear...and its about trusting people to be smart and respectful.
              > > >
              > > > I dont need DRM to lock down my videos.
              > > > Let's say someone grabs my videos and starts making millions of
              > > > dollars....
              > > > first, I'd be pretty impressed...but then i'd hire a lawyer to
              > take care
              > > > of it.
              > > > If someone is just being a dick by disrespecting my CC license, Ill
              > > > let the community know.
              > > > ultimately, if someone is a dick and doesnt care about reputation, not
              > > > much i can do.
              > > >
              > > > But DRM is not for you and me.....DRM is built for business.
              > > > they want to make sure the little people dont get their greasy hands
              > > > on their content.
              > > > everyone is suspect. everyone is a criminal.
              > > > forget creating goodwill with the people who keep them rolling in
              > cash.
              > > > people must be stopped.
              > > > stop.
              > > >
              > > > jay
              > > >
              > > > --
              > > > http://jaydedman.com
              > > > 917 371 6790
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --
              > > http://geekentertainment.tv
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >



              --
              http://geekentertainment.tv


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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